Hitler and Probabilities

[jbseth]

Hi All

Every day on "Bing" they have a site called, "On This Day in History", where they post 4 of the events that have occurred in history on this day.

On this day in history, on November 8th, in 1939, which was the 16th anniversary of the "Beer Hall Putsch", there was a failed, attempt to kill Adolph Hitler. A bomb detonated in the assembly hall where Hitler had been, but Hitler and others had left the building several minutes before. 

http://www.bing.com/search?q=assassination+of+adolf+hitler+attempt+1939&filters=IsConversation:"True" OsKey%3A%22OnThisDay1108%22+Id%3A%220%22+dw_answerstobesuppressed%3A%22taskpanepromotionanswer%22&form=OTDTB0


I noticed that from a timing perspective, that this bombing actually occurred several months after WW2 started, which was Sept., 1, 1939.

Given what Seth has to say about probable realities, where do you think the world would be today, if this bomb had killed Hitler instead?

Any thoughts.

-jbseth

[inavalan]

Given what Seth has to say about probable realities, where do you think the world would be today, if this bomb had killed Hitler instead?

Any thoughts.

I believe that what's happening is the end resultant of a multitude of compounding factors. The big tragedy, that the WW2 was, although apparently traceable to some unique individuals, events, decisions, was actually the inevitable result of the global human state of emotions, as well as emotional needs, at that historical moment.

If Hitler were killed, somebody else would've taken his place. If Germans didn't start the war, some other nation would've started it.

People would like to guess if the future will bring them what they'd want, but they should actually think in terms of deciding what they want, then bring it into their reality, which makes the whole difference. They should actually think in terms of doing what is (they believe to be) right, not in terms of deserving something to be given to them. Active, not passive. Proactive, not reactive.

[T.M.]

Hi All,

That's an interesting question. I've often asked myself who is responsible for wars, especially ww2. That was the war of my parents generation.

I keep coming back to the answer, we are all responsible for the events we participate in.

Hitler was just a very determined focal point. After doing my own lengthy research on why that war happened, there were a lot of financial shenanigans going on that most aren't aware of.

I'm just not sure how events/probabilities would have played out, had Hitler had an early demise. Mostly because of the financial aspect.

[Deb]

My first thought was, it was an event that had a purpose, and so it would still have occurred under different circumstances, with a different villain. But then that means I'm excluding other probabilities. So I think there are probabilities for his not being killed at that moment and we have what we have, he was killed and someone else carried on the torch, he was killed and the world is a better place because of it. And a multitude of scenarios in between. Certainly something worth pondering!

I had no idea about the bomb, this is the first time I've heard about it.

I think I may have some incarnational connection to the holocaust due to my intense reactions to Schindler's List and a concentration camp I visited last year in Austria.

[Sena]

Given what Seth has to say about probable realities, where do you think the world would be today, if this bomb had killed Hitler instead?

jbseth, thanks for the interesting post. How I see it is that the warmongers who started the war had to be taught a lesson. That was a lesson that the human race had to learn. On the allied side, the war gave an opportunity for heroes to show their true colors. If the bomb had killed Hitler, Stalin would have become very powerful, developed nuclear weapons, and started a nuclear war with the West. There were many in the West who sympathized with Stalin, and some Western scientists would have defected to the Soviet Union.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

According to Wikipedia, the man who carried out this bombing was Georg Elser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser


Furthermore, in addition to this, according to this same Wikipedia article, many of Hitler's high ranking officials accompanied Hitler to this event.

The high-ranking Nazis who accompanied Adolf Hitler to the anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch on 8 November 1939 were Joseph Goebbels, Reinhard Heydrich, Rudolf Hess, Robert Ley, Alfred Rosenberg, Julius Streicher, August Frank, Hermann Esser and Heinrich Himmler.



Thus, if this bombing had actually been successful, then quite possibly Hitler and many of his high ranking officials would have all been killed by this event.


The more I think about this, the more it seems to me that it's really hard to reasonably guess at just what the likely outcome of this event might have been.

-jbseth

[Sena]

That's an interesting question. I've often asked myself who is responsible for wars, especially ww2. That was the war of my parents generation.

I keep coming back to the answer, we are all responsible for the events we participate in.

T.M., I agree. I think that would be Seth's view.

[Deb]

I was just told there was a "really good" movie about this, Valkyrie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie_(film) 2008

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Here's a couple of interesting historical factoids.


According to Bing, yesterday, Nov. 8th, in history, was the day in 1939, where there was a bombing attempt made against Hitler.


Also according to Bing, today, Nov. 9th, in history, was the day in history when "Kristallnacht" began in 1938, a terrible event, and it was also the day in history when the Berlin wall came down in 1989, a more positive event.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Fall+of+the+Berlin+Wall+1989&filters=tnTID%3a%22EDF158E2-405E-48e4-AADA-1C4830199444%22+tnVersion%3a%223254890%22+segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%227%22+tnOrder%3a%2243a4569b-0af7-4859-a07f-688fe557d610%22&FORM=BSPN01&crslsl=810&efirst=6

I wonder just how many consecutive days, we'll have, that have something to do with famous German events in history.



Oh, by the way, speaking of history, the movie Valkyrie, has to do with a real bombing attempt that was made against Hitler. Only that one occurred on July 20, 1944. While I'm not sure how historical this movie was, the July 20, 1944 bombing attempt against Hitler, was an actual historical event.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie_(film)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot

I'm not aware of any other bombing attempts made against Hitler, but there may have been even more.

-jbseth

[T.M.]

Hi All,

I remember reading this not to long ago, but couldn't remember it enough to attempt to paraphrase it.
I thought it might be of interest here



"I have a small point here, in that Hitler represented as a bleedthrough from a probable reality—extremely interesting. He was a personality who literally should have been born back in those eras, and was not. In one respect he was like a time projection, appearing out of place, a psychological warp brought into displacement by a phenomena that psychologically could be likened to a natural phenomena like a volcano.

[... 1 paragraph ...]

As an analogy, most events are this high. (Jane held up her cigarette lighter.) The events in the times of the Crusades, for example, were this high. (Jane raised an arm over her head, full length.) Following the analogy the times, the physical times in which they would ordinarily have occurred, would have ended, say, here—(Jane indicated a spot six inches above the lighter)—but the energy was so great that it catapulted some of these events, displacing what you think of as time, so that they appeared, as Hitler did, where theoretically, now, they should not have.

This kind of displacement can occur, but in practical terms, the terms by which you judge time, this is unusual. Hitler appeared therefore as a far more vicious character against your current world, than he would have had those other times contained him.

Yet his emergence was important, reminding the race of the perils into which it could indeed fall. In many respects however Hitler was not a complete personality in usual terms. Part of his vitality and what would have been his redeeming qualities, were sunken in the past in which he did not exist.

[... 6 paragraphs ...]

(11:17. This was actually the end of the session. While talking Jane had images in trance that she couldn't describe now, concerning Hitler and displacements "shooting out" of their times, etc."

—TPS2 Deleted Session August 30, 1972

[Deb]

I'm not aware of any other bombing attempts made against Hitler, but there may have been even more.

So all of those people that complain that nothing was done to stop Hitler... there were people who did try to stop him. No doubt multiple attempts. It's hard to imagine how much damage one person can do, how many people would jump on board and think it was a good idea. Shaking my head.

Even harder to comprehend that there are still countries that have dictators and their armies keep their citizens so abused and repressed. Humanity has a ways to go.

[jbseth]

Hi. T.M., Hi Deb, Hi All.

Hey T.M., great Seth post on Hitler and how he was a bleed-through from the Crusades. I don't recall Seth saying anything quite like that about bleed-through's before. That's a new one on me.    


Hey Deb, I'm definitely with you on what you said about both Hitler and the sad fact that we still have so many dictators in the world today.



I literally expected this string of sequential daily German historical events, to come to an end yesterday.

However, today in history, November 10, in the year 1483, Martin Luther was borne.

Martin Luther was a German Professor of Theology. During his life, he came to reject the Roman Catholic Churches teachings and practices on indulgences. His issues with this became part of his 95 Theses, that he was said to have nailed to the door of a church in protest. This action, of his basically started the "Protestant" formation.


http://www.bing.com/search?q=martin+luther&filters=ufn%3a%22martin+luther%22+sid%3a%22296be542-0bdb-f5f2-e983-573055f17f4c%22+catguid%3a%22mso%2fpeople.person_09835ff127840130181cb2b901de1af3%22+segment%3a%22generic.carousel%22+secq%3a%22martin+luther%22+supwlcar%3a%220%22+segtype%3a%22RmFtb3VzR2VuZXJpY1Blb3BsZQ%3d%3d%22+ctype%3a%220%22+mltype%3a%220%22+eltypedim1%3a%22Actor%22&FORM=SNAPCR&crslsl=0



-jbseth

[inavalan]

Even harder to comprehend that there are still countries that have dictators and their armies keep their citizens so abused and repressed. Humanity has a ways to go.

Where I seem to differ a little with my perspective of what's happening, is that those-bad-things aren't done to people by those few bad-people, but what's happening is the materialization of the thoughts and emotions the large mass of people have. Eliminating those actual bad-people won't solve the problems. Those-bad-things will be done, in some similar form, by other bad-people that would step up.

To change what's happening, large masses of people have to change their thoughts and emotions, and newer and better thoughts and emotions will materialize into less-bad-things, even better-things.

On the other hand, the few people that evolve graduate to other planes of existence, and the pool of humans is replenished with new, less evolved souls. That is why the human society's progress is so slow, if any. In fact, from higher realms' perspective, humanity's progress isn't a goal. This is a place for learning, where freshmen students come, practice, learn, graduate, then new freshmen repeat the cycle.

Whatever bad-things happen here, don't negatively affect our non-physical essences.

Currently, there is a lot of hate in the world that materializes, and will materialize in bad-things happening, including climate change (see Seth on this), unrest, suffering, pain. A seemingly natural way of reacting to these bad-things is to get angry and hateful of those apparently responsible. As Seth explained, hate isn't the way, violence isn't the way. People have to firstly take control of their own thoughts and emotions, and become responsible creators of their own reality. As it is now, most people believe that others have to change, that they themselves are owed to, deserve, are entitled to receive, are right in their thoughts and emotions.

And, there isn't an Evil force that does these to us either. 

[inavalan]

Martin Luther was a German Professor of Theology. During his life, he came to reject the Roman Catholic Churches teachings and practices on indulgences. His issues with this became part of his 95 Theses, that he was said to have nailed to the door of a church in protest. This action, of his basically started the "Protestant" formation.

I don't think that protestants are in any way better (nor worse) than catholics.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

It seems to me that what Seth says in TES9, Session 446, has a lot of bearing on this discussion of dictators, hatred, and evil. 

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi inavalan, Hi All,

In the ESP Class Session, Tuesday, June 23, 1970, Seth tells us that we have believed many tales about God and symbolically they were very important to us. He also tells us that while they had a place in our lives, a time comes when we must leave them behind, as they can hamper our development.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

In regards to this comment, I happen to know of several churches, who have belief systems that are very open and similar in many ways to Seth's philosophy. Generally the roots of these churches all come from a liberal Protestant church background.

One of these is the "Unitarian Universalism" church.  From what I understand, Ralph Waldo Emerson, who Seth said was a "Speaker", was related to this church. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism


Another group of churches who also have a belief system that is similar to Seth's philosophy is the "New Thought" churches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Thought

There are several branches of these "New Thought" churches.

One of these is called the Unity Church
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Church


Another calls themsleves "Centers for Spiritual Living"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Spiritual_Living



I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else here, but the reason that I know about this is because my wife and I occasionally attend a local New Thought church.


I would say that the typical Roman Catholic church and the typical Protestant churches teach a philosophy that represents what Seth talks about when he said, "You see, you have believed many tales, and symbolically they were very important."

I would also say that the "Unitarian Universalism" church and the "New Thought" churches, teach a philosophy of that where someone who has removed "the comfort blankets".


-jbseth

[Sena]

The responsibility for creation must be clearly understood. You cannot hurt others within your system. To some extent you are, comparatively speaking, in a soundproof and isolated room. Hate creates destruction and in that room, until the lesson is learned, destruction follows destruction.

(Smile.) In the terms of other systems that particular kind of destruction is meaningless and does not exist, but you believe that it does, and the agonies of the dying are sorely felt. A vivid nightmare is also sorely felt, but quickly over. It is not that you must be taught not to destroy, for destruction does not actually exist. It is that you must be taught and trained to create responsibly.

TM, thanks for this very relevant quote.

This is in contrast to the Christian teaching that suffering is meaningful. Whether Jesus Christ was actually crucified is questionable, but the basis of Christian doctrine is that his suffering was meaningful and "good", because thereby the human race was "saved". This is complete nonsense.

Seth does say that "suffering does somehow have a meaning in the context of your entire existence", but not in the Christian sense:

"Religion holds some ideas that are in complete opposition to each other in regard to the nature of suffering in general. Some believe that suffering is a punishment sent by God for past or present sins, or even omissions, while other religious schools insist that suffering is sent by God as evidence of his particular love for the individual involved: "God must love you very much, because he sent you so much suffering." (As Jane has been told by several nurses.)

That remark, and similar ones, are often made to ill persons. The idea is supposed to be that suffering is good for the soul, is a way of atoning for one's sins, and in some fashion the implication is made that such suffering in this life will be more than compensated for in heaven.

[... 2 paragraphs ...]

Instead, it should be realized that as uncomfortable as suffering is, it does somehow have a meaning in the context of your entire existence — again, that it was not thrust upon you by some unjust or uncaring exterior force or nature.

To some degree, that kind of understanding can help alleviate suffering itself to some extent. I am not advocating a fatalistic approach either, that says more or less: "I have chosen such and such an unfortunate condition at some level I do not understand, and therefore the entire affair is outside of my own hands. There is nothing I can do about it.""

—Way to Health Chapter 12: June 17, 1984

"Illness and suffering are the results of the misdirection of creative energy. They are a part of the creative force, however. They do not come from a different source than, say, health and vitality. Suffering is not good for the soul, unless it teaches you how to stop suffering. That is its purpose."
—Seth Speaks Chapter 20: Session 580, April 12, 1971

[jbseth]

Hi All,

According to Bing, today in history, Nov 11th, is the day that the first world war came to an end, in the year 1918.

On this day, Germany and the Allies sign an Armistice on the 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11 month of 1918.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=First+World+War+armistice&filters=tnTID%3a%2299A2B98B-450E-4016-8955-90D89984095E%22+tnVersion%3a%223257912%22+segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%227%22+tnOrder%3a%22388bf63e-3f40-48e4-9e30-089f8c2bf82f%22&efirst=5&FORM=HPNN01

Now, I'm kind of curious, just how long this will keep up.

- jbseth

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Here's a short vid , less than 2 minutes, further coincidences around the 11-11.  It was posted a year ago, hence his reference to a 100 year mark.

[jbseth]

Hi T.M.,

That video is very fascinating and talk about synchronistic.  Wow.


Do you suppose that someone from the future, could have come back and made sure that this automobile, had that specific license plate on it?


-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi T.M., Hi All,

The website below contains the "Smithsonian Magazine" article about Archduke Ferdinand that's mentioned in the video posted by T.M.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/curses-archduke-franz-ferdinand-and-his-astounding-death-car-27381052/


-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi All,

OK. I just read the Smithsonian article and apparently the license plate was actually: A III 118. 

That is, an upper case letter a, followed by three upper case letter i's, followed by the number one, the number one and the number eight.

However, even with this, according to this Smithsonian article, there are some really incredible coincidences having to do with Archduke Ferdinand's death.  These have to do with a "Fortune Teller's" claim, the fact that the Archduke had premonitions of his death, the fact that it was claimed that he killed a "white" stag deer (bad omen) and a whole lot of very interesting details that occurred on the day he was shot (see below).

Smithsonian Article:
[...] Seen from the historian's perspective, though, even the most familiar of the events of that day have interesting aspects that often go unremarked. The appalling combination of implausible circumstance that resulted in assassination is one; Franz Ferdinand had survived an earlier attempt to kill him on the fateful day, emerging unscathed from the explosion of a bomb that bounced off the folded roof of his convertible and exploded under a car following behind him in his motorcade. That bomb injured several members of the imperial entourage, and those men were taken to the hospital. It was Franz Ferdinand's impulsive decision, later in the day, to visit them there—a decision none of his assassins could have predicted—that took him directly past the spot where his assassin, Gavrilo Princip, was standing. It was chauffeur Leopold Lojka's unfamiliarity with the new route that led him to take a wrong turn and, confused, pull to a halt just six feet from the gunman.

For the archduke to be presented, as a stationary target, to the one man in a crowd of thousands still determined to kill him was a remarkable stroke of bad luck, but even then, the odds still favored Franz Ferdinand's survival. Princip was so hemmed in by the crowd that he was unable to pull out and prime the bomb he was carrying. Instead, he was forced to resort to his pistol, but failed to actually aim it. According to his own testimony, Princip confessed: "Where I aimed I do not know," adding that he had raised his gun "against the automobile without aiming. I even turned my head as I shot." Even allowing for the point-blank range, it is pretty striking, given these circumstances, that the killer fired just two bullets, and yet one struck Franz Ferdinand's wife, Sophie—who was sitting alongside him—while the other hit the heir to the throne. It is astonishing that both rounds proved almost immediately fatal. Sophie was hit in the stomach, and her husband in the neck, the bullet severing his jugular vein. There was nothing any doctor could have done to save either of them.

Wow. How incredibly synchronous was all of that?   




In addition to this, I think that there might be some interesting synchronistic activities going on here as well?

Several days ago, I started this post on a Hitler bombing.

Then over the next several days, I noticed that there was a string of consecutive days where, on each day, something in history had to do with Germany.

Today I posted a message about, on this day in history, WW1 came to an end and Germany signed the Armistice.

Then, T.M. posted a video about the license plate on Archduke Ferdinand's automobile, the day he was assassinated.

The video contained a Smithsonian article about this assassination.

I found the Smithsonian article and posted it here.

The Smithsonian article itself, which was written some time ago (on April 22, 2013), contained a list of very interesting synchronistic events having to do with the actual assassination itself.

do, do, DO, do,   

- jbseth

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,  makes a person wonder!!!  Reminds me of the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations, so many inverted flips in that one!
Yeah, it's a lot of strange coincidences definitely!!
P.S.  Thanks for the Smithsonian article too!

[Deb]

I haven't been able to keep up with posts, but I had to throw this in the ring.

In addition to this, I think that there might be some interesting synchronistic activities going on here as well?

I for one think so. I've noticed for the past couple of weeks our different topics have been crossing over each other like a braid. I've never noticed that before. It feels like there's something going on, some sort of speeding up of things.

This Russian Doll of synchronicities for me just came full circle today and I'm blown away. And chuckling to myself:

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1445.msg13854#msg13854

[jbseth]

Hi Deb,

By synchronicities, are you referring to the fact that the turkeys are attacking people in "Tom's River", New Jersey, or,

Are you talking about the fact that in Tom's River recently there was a Porsche automobile accident, or

Are you talking about the fact that in the Smithsonian article that we've been talking about on another post today, it says that in the 1959, Frank Edwards wrote up a story about the supposed jinxed Graf & Stift automobile that Archduke Ferdinand was chauffeured around in, the day he was assassinated. This article says that Edwards wrote this story at pretty much the same time that a similar tale was going around regarding the James Dean's cursed Porsche Sypder. James Dean was killed in a car accident while driving a Porsche Spyder.



Let's see, today we went from turkeys to Tom's River, from Tom's River to Porsche accidents, from Porsche accidents to jinxed automobiles, from jinxed automobiles to Archduke Ferdinand's assassination, from Archduke Ferdinand's assassination to WW1 events, from WW1 events to Nov, 11th, Today in History, where Germany sign the Armistice.

Then from this, we went from Nov 10th Today in History, where German Theology Professor, Martin Luther posted his 95 theses, to Nov 9th Today in History, where both "Kristallnacht" occurred and the Berlin Wall came down in Germany, which was followed by discussions here of the second (1944) bombing assassination attempt of Hitler, to Nov 8th Today in History, and the 1939 bombing assassination attempt of Hitler.

Wow, that's a pretty long string.

-jbseth

[Deb]

By synchronicities, are you referring to the fact

Do you mean where I said in the Thanksgiving post that there was a coincidence involving the turkeys and car articles in Toms River? For me that was because I have a connection to Toms River and for a small town in NJ to make national news twice, two days in a row, was a small but personal coincidence for me. But what I was really referring to involved the clip from the TV show. How often do I think about the Hindenberg? Never. But the mention of Toms River jogged my memory of it. Then there I was, minutes later, watching a WKRP clip where at 2:25 Wes Nesbit says "Oh the humanity." No question in my mind that was an allusion to the broadcaster covering the Hindenberg arrival in Lakehurst, which ended in tragedy. People were jumping out of the zeppelin as it went up in flames. His famous line? "Oh, the humanity." Just another personal synchronicity for me.

Oh and I just found out the Hindenberg had Nazi connections. That was a new one for me. https://www.history.com/news/the-hindenburg-disaster-9-surprising-facts  "The airship... was such a symbol of Nazi power that it was subjected to constant bomb threats."

You did an impressive job connecting all the dots! I do realize we are a small group discussing a small variety of topics at any time, with the common denominator being Seth... but it seems that lately that posts made in one topic/thread about, say, "who is Seth" will be related to and just as relevant in an unrelated topic we're discussing. It could be this has been happening all along and I'm just noticing it more now.

Cursed cars? You mean like this, lol? https://www.foxnews.com/auto/cursed-1937-cord-812-political-history

That whole story about Kate, the Experiment, Michael, the used Seth Speaks book etc. was a big one for me and I have a feeling it's not finished.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

This morning I went to Bing this morning, to check on "This Day in History" to see what occurred today in history. However, before I even got there, the first thing I noticed was an article in Bing about a stolen car (see attached jpeg image).

This article tells us that a man took his car to a car show and it was stolen.  It just so happens that this stolen car was a "Porsche.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/11/11/owner-shocked-after-his-60s-porsche-roadster-gets-stolen-from-classic-car-show-in-pleasanton/

So now I guess we're now having some interesting synchronicities that have to do with Porsche automobiles.   



Anyway, it appears that from Bing's "On This Day in History" site, our sequential string of daily events that have something to do with Germany, has come to an end.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=History+of+the+World+Wide+Web&filters=tnTID%3a%2223857558-BF9C-48f9-B265-DB5FAE6C42E5%22+tnVersion%3a%223259404%22+segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%227%22+tnOrder%3a%22c18755e4-c49d-4818-b706-d10257cdcde0%22&FORM=BSPN01&crslsl=972&efirst=7

-jbseth

[jbseth]

But what I was really referring to involved the clip from the TV show. How often do I think about the Hindenberg? Never. But the mention of Toms River jogged my memory of it. Then there I was, minutes later, watching a WKRP clip where at 2:25 Wes Nesbit says "Oh the humanity." No question in my mind that was an allusion to the broadcaster covering the Hindenberg arrival in Lakehurst, which ended in tragedy. People were jumping out of the zeppelin as it went up in flames. His famous line? "Oh, the humanity." Just another personal synchronicity for me.

Hi Deb,

Wow. That's a great one.

I do recall you talking about the Hindenburg, but I failed to catch the connection between the Hindenburg falling from the sky and the turkeys falling from the sky in the WKRP episode. 

Bigger yet, the quote, "Oh, the Humanity", from Les Nessman of WKRP.  I never made that connection with the words spoken during Hindenburg disaster until you pointed it out.  Wow, that incredible.   


-jbseth

[LarryH]

Ferdinand Porsche designed Hitler's "peoples' car", the original Volkswagon. So even the mention of a Porsche circles back to Hitler.

[jbseth]

Hi LarryH,

Great catch.   

-jbseth

[Deb]

Where I seem to differ a little with my perspective of what's happening, is that those-bad-things aren't done to people by those few bad-people, but what's happening is the materialization of the thoughts and emotions the large mass of people have. Eliminating those actual bad-people won't solve the problems. Those-bad-things will be done, in some similar form, by other bad-people that would step up.

To change what's happening, large masses of people have to change their thoughts and emotions, and newer and better thoughts and emotions will materialize into less-bad-things, even better-things.

On the other hand, the few people that evolve graduate to other planes of existence, and the pool of humans is replenished with new, less evolved souls. That is why the human society's progress is so slow, if any. In fact, from higher realms' perspective, humanity's progress isn't a goal. This is a place for learning, where freshmen students come, practice, learn, graduate, then new freshmen repeat the cycle.

Whatever bad-things happen here, don't negatively affect our non-physical essences.

This (post) has been in the back of my mind since I first read it, and sadly I'm just now getting around to commenting. I just wanted to say I thought this was brilliant and makes complete sense to me. And the idea that "large masses of people have to change their thoughts and emotions" is why it's so tough to see any actual progress.

And this: "On the other hand, the few people that evolve graduate to other planes of existence, and the pool of humans is replenished with new, less evolved souls. That is why the human society's progress is so slow, if any. In fact, from higher realms' perspective, humanity's progress isn't a goal. This is a place for learning, where freshmen students come, practice, learn, graduate, then new freshmen repeat the cycle." — you nailed it that this is a place for learning, a stepping stone. It reminded me of this quote from TES01, session 9 that's been sitting on my desktop for a while:

The consciousness will expand on your planet, just as it expands for those who go beyond your plane. The scope of consciousness will be so broadened in the future that all personality fragments, split personality images, and even individual fragments in succeeding incarnations, will be held in clear focus without strain. It is toward this that evolution on the earthly plane is headed, though of course with its usual donkey-slow rate.

In the meantime, when incarnations on the planet earth are finished the entity moves toward this goal anyway. In any case by the time that this goal is reached on the earthly plane, those who have passed from it will have evolved in ways of which even I can only dream. Now rest your hand.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Sometimes I wonder just how often we limit ourselves by the beliefs that we seem to accept without ever realizing it. To see what I mean by this, let's take a look at the statement below?

To change what's happening, large masses of people have to change their thoughts and emotions, and newer and better thoughts and emotions will materialize into less-bad-things, even better-things.


"Do" large masses of people have to change their thoughts and emotions, before we can change what's happening? 

Is it possible that that there might be some other easier way to change this situation. For example, is it possible that to change this situation, all we really have to do is move ourselves over into a probable reality where large masses of people already have these newer and better thoughts?

Does this situation appear to be difficult because we have opted to "believe": 1) that we have to change the thoughts of large masses of people, to change this situation, AND, 2) that it is very difficult to do this?



In several different places, Seth tells us that with belief or faith, we can move a mountain.


TPS3 Deleted Session November 26, 1975

[... 17 paragraphs ...]

In one way or another, the more powerful truths or facts of this "higher" dimension were interpreted and set down. Christ said that with faith you could move a mountain. He meant that quite literally. The world psyche is in transition. (Long pause.) Michelangelo lived, literally again, in the heroic dimension. Only his physical condition connected his reality with the known one. You can therefore inhabit the heroic dimensions in the most vital of ways while you still live on one level your recognized existence. Your beliefs form your reality. You are born on faith, in those terms. You believe you can write books and paint pictures, and you do.

[... 17 paragraphs ...]



What do you think?


-jbseth

[Deb]

"Do" large masses of people have to change their thoughts and emotions, before we can change what's happening?

Well, that's a good question. We have to consider we are here on this learning plane for a reason. We learn from Seth that we carry limiting beliefs, most of which we don't recognize as that. We didn't ask for them. We probably don't want them (I sure don't). We "learned" them from teachers such as parents, religion, schools, society in general during our childhood. It seems that's one of the rules of the game we're in—like trying to punch our way out of a paper bag or navigate a maze. What a great plan, let's come into this existence with total amnesia, adopt a bunch of limiting beliefs, and see how we do overcoming that obstacle. My mind goes back to Neo in the end of the Matrix, where he shoots off flying into the atmosphere. Good for him, he finally got it that the sky is the limit.

Another "rule" is that while we make our own reality on a personal level, we also make reality on a mass level. How do we which applies at the time?

And who made these rules? These are things we agreed on, on another level. What exactly is the learning, the progress, the spiritual evolution we are meant to achieve? Why? If ATI's only intention is to experience and express itself creatively, is there really an end goal? Is there an end to this madness at all? Ever? What's the point?

Ooooh, I hate thinking about this type of stuff, it's like contemplating infinity. There's never a clean and neat answer. Only more questions.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb,

I understand and agree, a person could drive themselves bonkers trying to figure some of these things out.

I've come to believe that the real reason that we have such a hard time grasping many of these concepts (simultaneous time, infinity, no beginning and no end, etc.) is because, at our present level along the pyramid gestalt, we don't actually have either the physical capacity or the psychological capacity to do so.

Perhaps we won't actually be able to grasp these concepts until we achieve a higher level along the pyramid gestalt, such as that of an inner self or an entity for example.

-jbseth

[Deb]

Perhaps we won't actually be able to grasp these concepts until we achieve a higher level along the pyramid gestalt, such as that of an inner self or an entity for example.

Yep, I agree, we are not meant to understand much from our vantage, I suppose it would make things too easy here or we'd learn less than doing things the hard way.

I seem to recall Seth saying he really didn't know it all either, even from his "lofty" vantage point.

[jbseth]

I seem to recall Seth saying he really didn't know it all either, even from his "lofty" vantage point.

Hi Deb,

Yeah, I also recall Seth saying something like this as well.

-jbseth

[Sena]

Currently, there is a lot of hate in the world that materializes, and will materialize in bad-things happening, including climate change (see Seth on this), unrest, suffering, pain. A seemingly natural way of reacting to these bad-things is to get angry and hateful of those apparently responsible. As Seth explained, hate isn't the way, violence isn't the way. People have to firstly take control of their own thoughts and emotions, and become responsible creators of their own reality. As it is now, most people believe that others have to change, that they themselves are owed to, deserve, are entitled to receive, are right in their thoughts and emotions.

inavalan was an active member here. He "migrated" to another Seth forum at the end of 2019.

[Deb]

inavalan was an active member here. He "migrated" to another Seth forum at the end of 2019.

Inavalan was a valuable contributor to this forum, but unfortunately he left because of a conflict with jbseth. He went to https://sethtalks.com/, I'm sure anyone who wants to go there would be welcome. Hopefully it's busier there.

[Sena]

inavalan was an active member here. He "migrated" to another Seth forum at the end of 2019.

Inavalan was a valuable contributor to this forum, but unfortunately he left because of a conflict with jbseth. He went to https://sethtalks.com/, I'm sure anyone who wants to go there would be welcome. Hopefully it's busier there.

Deb, thanks for clarifying that.

[strangerthings]

where do you think the world would be today,

....if Hitler had known Love?

I have learned that in our probable Earth he had not known love. What would Earth be like if more than a handful of people send him love and well wishes? And actually mean it?

I tried this exercise on and it took me a couple goes but I gotta say the more I did it the more I was able to love people I thought I did not like in today's world.

Me selecting this topic from a list of topics I have not read, is a huge reminder for me. Dang lol

Imagine for a moment what YOU would be like if you never knew love. Even love of self but to never be loved by another? Not worshiped but actual love like a mother could love her children....and I know a few people who have never known this.

And there are people who have been loved but dont accept it. Dont believe it. Refuse to see it.

So interesting!