Religion, Science and Psychology

[jbseth]

Hi All,

In TMA, Session fourteen, Seth had some very interesting things to say about religion, science, and psychology all contained in this one brief session.  In this session, Seth explains why each one of these concepts have major failings. I'll rewrite / paraphrase him here below for simplicity of reading. You can also read his actual words if you want in the spoiler below.


Before the time of modern psychology, man thought of himself as having a "soul". This concept of the "soul", allowed for both ordinary and bizarre experiences and states of mind; as well as a belief in the afterlife.  Thus, it isn't true, that before the time of modern psychology, man only had a concept of himself that dealt with conscious exterior aspects, and that did not include subconscious or unconscious complexity.


The church condemned certain concepts and experiences (such as psychological and mystical experiences) because it recognized that some of these, such as revelation experiences, for example, could be very disruptive to its dogmatic world view and world order.

In the churches view, witches weren't considered to be insane or deranged. They were considered to be evil instead.


With the development of the scientific era, an artificial shrinking of psychological reality took place. What could not be proven in the laboratory was presumed not to exist at all. Furthermore, anyone who experienced "something that could not exist" must be deluded or deranged. Thus, modern psychology was an attempt to make man conform to the new scientific world view.


Given this then, since life after death, channeling, mediumship, OOBE's, etc., can't be proven scientifically, then from both a scientific community standpoint and from a psychological community standpoint, these don't exist. Thus, any belief in or experiences of these types of situations are considered by both the scientific communities and the psychological communities to be unreasonable and unintellectual speculation.

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-jbseth

[Deb]

Oooooo, GREAT topic! I'm looking forward to diving in!

@chasman this may interest you too.

[Sena]

In the churches view, witches weren't considered to be insane or deranged. They were considered to be evil instead.

jbseth, while I completely disagree with the Christian Church's stigmatization of witches, I do not think there is evidence that the majority of so-called witches were either insane or deranged. At a time when medical knowledge (of mainly male doctors) was primitive and ineffective, there were women who played an improtant role as healers. These women were often labeled as witches by those envious of their abilities.

This is a quote from the attached pdf:
"In rural areas of Europe, amateur healers, many of whom were women, were ubiquitous. They cured all descriptions of illnesses
with herbs, poultices, prayers and ointments. This traditional healing role was threatened during the Renaissance because at this time, 'the first concerted efforts were made to remove medicine from the realm of popular culture and establish it as the preserve of a restricted profession'"

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

Yeah, I agree. I don't consider the people who practiced witchcraft as either insane, deranged or evil. They were just practicing an alternative religious/spiritual belief system; alternative to Christianity, that is.


Actually, I think that we would need Seth to clarify why he made this statement.


In thinking about this statement however, I've come up with what "might" have been what Seth was trying to say here. 

During this time when people practiced both Christianity and witchcraft, if people either behaved in strange ways, or participated in, other than, Christian practices, they were considered to be "possessed by evil spirits".  In their Christian world view, these Christians had absolutely no concept of the idea that people could have had some sort of mental health issue, such as schizophrenia, for example.

Thus, people who either behaved in strange ways, or participated in, other than, Christian practices, were considered to be possessed by evil spirits. Now, along these same lines, anyone who participated in other than, Christian practices, were considered to be evil.


Thus, I don't think that Seth actually meant that witches were insane or deranged when he made this statement. Instead, I think that he probably meant that the Christians had no concept of the idea that people could be deranged or insane (schizophrenic).

I also think that he meant that in this Christian world view, since witches were people who were possessed by evil spirits, and who participated in non-Christian practices, they were considered to be evil.


-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I think that this concept that Seth expresses here, this "artificial shrinking of psychological reality" is a very important point, when we're talking about science and how they attempt to analyze concepts like OOBE's, NDE's, Channeling, Mediumship, etc.

Science typically uses external / object tools to analyze these, internal / subjective concepts.  Along with this, science (and people like Richard Dawkins and James Randi) also claims to be logical, open-minded and objective.

Well, if they really are "logical, open-minded and objective" then shouldn't it occur to them that perhaps external / object tools might not be the best method for analyzing these internal / subjective concepts?

- jbseth

[chasman]

yes, very much so, thank you Deb. 

thank you for your posts jbseth and Sena.

the OLC. religion, science and psychology.

it just occurred to me that when I was young,
I wanted to be a scientist, priest, a psychologist and then a doctor.

I did not become any of those.
(nor a hugely successful musician beloved by billions of my adoring fans.) lol

but I did become a sethie.