counterparts -what you think

[narvik2]

Hello from north Italy.  This forum is precious, and Seth books are a real "manna from heaven"!
What you think about counterparts ?  ( I'm now reading the Unknown Reality vol 2)
so - they can exist in past, present, future?  - we can meet them in this reality, dream them, have intuitions?
- they are "parts of same entity" as we,  like ..splinters, sisters or brothers of me?
wow, this is not easy to put on words in Any language.   Rob and Jane saw their counterparts during holidays by sea, dancing; if I remember right. 
Simultaneous time is a hard concept to get into my head, suppose it's part of the game here - in this reality.
Anyhow, all this is Lovely reading for a thirsty soul as mine!
Thank you all and best greetings
from Isa

[chasman]

hi Isa,
 
             welcome, and yes I very much agree this forum is precious, and about the Seth books.

don't know much about the counterparts.
simultaneous time is interesting, for sure.
to me, its not an intuitive concept.
Charlie

[Sena]

What you think about counterparts ?  ( I'm now reading the Unknown Reality vol 2)

Welcome to the forum, Narvik2. You must be quite advanced in your Seth studies if you are reading that rather difficult book. The topic of counterparts is not something that has resonated with me. Look forward to other discussions.

[narvik2]

Thank you cara Sena!
30 years searching here and there, small steps, snailspeed, small advance - patience hard to have.  Seth books, findingseth.com and this forum is wonderland,  thank all gods and all-that-is, so much needed.  and yes, thanks also to internet for possibilities it gives!  You know the story of a cleric and Jesus walking on beach?
they passed a child who was ladeling water from sea to his bucket.  Jesus answered the questions of the priest:
"you have as much possibility to enter the isness of God in your head as much as this child can make the sea to enter in his bucket."
well, maybe my head is not much larger as that of the priest 
these days we have more time to read/think while coronavirus is rolling around.  also here i return to Seth.
Many warm greetings from here

[T.M.]

Hello and Welcome.

[Deb]

Hi Isa, welcome to the forum! BTW I LOVE Italy, I spent two weeks there on a road trip several years ago. Went from Rome, to Siena, Florence, Venice, back to Florence. I smuggled some seeds from a Costaluto Genovese tomato home, ssssh, don't tell anyone.

Great question, thank you! I think you really summed it all up in your post. Yes to existing in past, present, future; yes we could meet them, we communicate during sleep (he also said we share information and assistance with our other incarnations), yes to being parts of the same entity. I've added some quotes below that I think support this. Or at least my understanding.

Early on, I never gave that much thought to the word counterpart in the Seth materials. It was hard enough wrapping my head around all the probable selves, incarnations and yes, simultaneous time. It was just one more variable to understand.

Seth seemed to use the word counterpart in more than one way. For instance, "you have an invisible counterpart in Framework 2. During life that counterpart is so connected with your own physical tissues..."
—NoME Chapter 4: Session 826, March 8, 1978

So there's the non-physical me in Framework 2 that's projecting me/itself into this physical world. F2 me is the transmitter, F1 me is the receiver.

Then a book I read last year about hypnosis and past life regression written by Michael Newton, Journey of Souls (my review is here) caught my attention when he talked about a man he had regressed and the man said he had a counterpart, a woman currently living in another country. She was not aware of him; he only knew about he when he was under hypnosis. In this case counterpart was used to describe two off-shoots (or incarnations) of an entity that exist in the same "time" period. That was the first time I saw anyone else use the word counterpart. Coincidentally ( ) right around that time someone came to this forum and said he felt we were counterparts. I didn't have the same impression (I'm kind of dense about that type of thing), but it did surprise me.

Yet here, it sounds like "counterpart" refers to all incarnations of the entity. Rob:

"In Volume 2 of "Unknown" Reality Seth began developing his theory of counterparts — that the larger psychological self, or entity, of each of us manifests not just one physical life in any given century, say, but several, so as to gain that much more experience in a variety of roles involving different ages, nationalities and languages, sexual orientations, family roles, and so forth. As I understand the counterparts thesis, the individual may or may not meet at least some of his or her counterparts, scattered as they can be among earth's different countries and cultures. Jane and I have encountered a few of our respective counterparts, however, principally through her now-defunct ESP class."
—NoME Chapter 5: Session 834, February 5, 1979

"The counterpart notion is Seth's timeless version of his concept of consecutive incarnations."
—DEaVF2 Chapter 12: Session 941, February 8, 1982

Now I wonder if our probable selves could also be considered counterparts? Dictionary definitions of counterpart are "something that completes" (as all of my counterparts together complete my entity?); "one remarkably similar to another" (similar, and yet different by degree, like Jane/Rob and the York Beach couple, or me and my probable selves?); "one having the same function or characteristics as another" (how literal do we go here? Maybe not the exact same function, but similar goals with a common source?)

BTW I loved the story of the kid and the bucket. How true! But like the kid, I'm not going to stop trying to enter the isness, or at least as much as I can, lol.

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

The theory of counterparts I'm working with is this
I think counterparts are related to the person. Say for example, an entity incarnate 3 personalities. 1 each in past, present, future.
Each counterpart would be a specific reflection of the personality in its time. A past incarnation wouldn't have a counterpart in either the present or future. It would only be related to the personality in the past. Same for the other 2 personalities.
Each personality would have its own set of counterparts/reflections in its own time period.


Hi Isa,

If Seth books are hard to get there, there's a YouTube channel, Tim Hart Hart
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1lqpMK7Fj9menoMhlWmQ_w
He reads all the Seth books, and some of Jane's. Free. He's pretty easy to listen too. The books are all on playlists too, for continuous listening.

[narvik2]

from Deb: "like the kid, I'm not going to stop trying to enter the isness, or at least as much as I can"

right and well said!
true also because: once started to walk this road there is no going back. Impossible. 
Seth books are really difficult to have here so Tim Hart is Big gift.
As this forum is a real Goldmine!
I see there is much about counterparts in discussions and this has been switched there, so here it can be closed?

I'm So happy to be here

[Deb]

I see there is much about counterparts in discussions and this has been switched there, so here it can be closed?

I'm not sure what you mean about this... do you want me to lock this topic so no one can add to it? I was actually thinking of moving it out of the Welcome board, over to Seth Discussions or something like that.

Many Seth topics have been discussed and rediscussed in different places on this forum. Sometimes the same things keep coming up and there's always someone and something new to contribute, I'm always seeing things from new perspectives. Some topics get repeated to a degree, but that doesn't bother me. I think it gives the forum a life or consciousness all its own.

And yes, Tim Hart is great. There's an app you can use to download the audio to your computer or other device:

The App I use is Media Human's YouTube converter. You can convert any YouTube to an mp3 file and then add it to your iTunes or whatever. https://www.mediahuman.com/youtube-to-mp3-converter/

It's very easy to use.

The theory of counterparts I'm working with is this
I think counterparts are related to the person. Say for example, an entity incarnate 3 personalities. 1 each in past, present, future.
Each counterpart would be a specific reflection of the personality in its time. A past incarnation wouldn't have a counterpart in either the present or future. It would only be related to the personality in the past. Same for the other 2 personalities.
Each personality would have its own set of counterparts/reflections in its own time period.

Wow, I hadn't thought that far. I wonder if this is what Seth meant about having a counterpart in F2? I just assumed that meant there would be the "real" underlying me that's a part of the entity. I'll have to think about this for a bit!

[Sena]

@narvik2

Isa, I wonder whether the topic of counterparts could have anything to do with what is referred to a "alien contact". This is an extract from a book I am currently reading:

"Returning from a neighbor's and walking into my back- yard, I was suddenly hit by a strange feeling, a sort of electric, shimmery feeling, and I began to see colors and movement around everything in the yard. I walked on and then saw four people standing side by side beneath a large tree. I thought of them as people because they were about my size—five feet tall—and had the usual appendages, but their appearance was actually like a shadow. They seemed gray and featureless, yet somehow I knew there were two males and two females. They greeted me warmly and told me  they were  my ancestors, that I  carried  all  of  their memories and wisdom in my body. I laughed at that, but they assured me that there were ways I could tap into that knowledge and use it. I was coming home to prepare dinner, and since I was a notoriously insecure cook, I asked them why I was such a disaster in the kitchen. After all, I said, surely one of my ancestors was a good cook, so why couldn't I use that knowledge myself? At that point they began to direct me in the preparation of the meal, at least the two males did. While I was cooking, the two females stood close behind me, talking quite rapidly to some unconscious part of my mind, but I couldn't understand what they were telling me. When I asked, the males said that I shouldn't worry about it, they were only giving me certain "instructions." The entire incident lasted about forty minutes, and then I was aware that the ancestors were no longer with me." (from "Taken + Into The Fringe: The Dr Karla Turner Bundle" by Dr Karla Turner PhD, Nick Pope, Linda Moulton Houwe)

From the Kindle edition: http://amzn.eu/geScwPq

If those four people Karla met were her counterparts, that would mean that they were NOT aliens at all!

[narvik2]

from Deb I was actually thinking of moving it out of the Welcome board, over to Seth Discussions or something like that.
Exsactly what I meant, Deb, can you do it?  I'm so damned shy.
Have found much good material to read on forum about this.
I really appreciate this forum.
These times the topic here is "The virus" and so I been reading Seth material about it.
in february I wondered what ever could have been (if there is ) "the Cina-Italy connection" - and translate it with Seth's concepts, but now in march it seems no more so local but is enlargening.
We shall see...what changes/can we change..when the dust settles.
All best

[Sena]

These times the topic here is "The virus" and so I been reading Seth material about it.

Isa, I hope you are keeping safe in Italy. They say that a vaccine will be available in 12 to 18 months. I personally would be reluctant to take the vaccine. I think Seth was against vaccination.

How the disease started? I don't think Seth readers would have eaten Pangolin meat, which is one theory how the disease started.

"I am not advising my readers to refuse to have their children vaccinated, since you now have to take vaccination into consideration because of the prominence of it in society. It is very possible, however, that science itself will in time discover the unfortunate side effects of many such procedures, and begin to reevaluate the entire subject."
—Way to Health Chapter 6: April 27, 1984

in february I wondered what ever could have been (if there is ) "the Cina-Italy connection" -

Yes, it is strange. How and why did Italy get affected so soon? The connection which springs to mind is Marco Polo!!

[narvik2]

Dear Sena
Lovely, you are so funny - "marco polo" - a good lightening for the situation!
This is a strange (?) new (?) phenomenon.
Dont' know about pandemic, but one thing is sure here: mass psychosis/hysteria.
i have read Seth about - epidemics, illness, viruses etc - still it's not so easy not to get involved.
Here i see with my eyes how much The Fear Commands.
- I agree also about vaccines.  So am I now worried (me-afraid?!) that someone orders them obligational ?!   ...ufff..
If we want to look at recent history, there has been pandemics, only starting from spanish flu in end of 1890 onwards every now and then, killing millions of people.
I'm not afraid.
But often I get angry with people around me.  Well, not close around now, we have here a very strict regulation not to go around than dire need for shopping or else.  Oherwise most activities are closed.
I have kept a good media-stop for years ( bad news you get to know anyway-someway), but when my friends call me panting  like having around the  Bubonic plague from dark middle ages I quickly burn my fuses.
I know it's no good/not right moment to start discussion about Seth's point of wiew.   
Maybe the fact that we, me, you, everybody dies someday is the most refuted/canceled  thing from our minds?
So today (we-I- have a gym, all closed) I have much time to turn the house upside down, cleaning
and reading Seth and have a walk with dogs.

[Deb]

Topic moved here to Questions/Explanations!

I too look forward to this current virus being behind us. I try to keep it in perspective, considering how many people recover than die (supposedly 99% recover depending on location, many have mild cases), but of course you don't hear that in the news because the media is all about negativity and sensationalism. I did hear that Italy has a big surge in cases because it has a greater percentage of senior citizens and they are more susceptible and the ones that have trouble recovering. And of course it has also become a political weapon in America and supposedly China is using it that way as well: the Chinese state-run media is saying that the US invented and spread the disease.

This is about the time I quarantine myself from the media. I was hoping to drive out to The Seth House in May, and also visit the Yale Library with Mary Dillman, but now I'm thinking Fall in the northeast would be lovely.

I'm attaching a meme I saw on Facebook last week, it seems to put this virus in perspective a little. Anyone understand the big rush on toilet paper, how that has anything to do with the virus? I don't get it, and yet people are hoarding paper products and you can't find toilet paper anywhere. 

[LarryH]

I try to keep it in perspective, considering how many people recover than die (supposedly 99% recover depending on location, many have mild cases), but of course you don't hear that in the news because the media is all about negativity and sensationalism.

Where did you hear it if not in the media? That's where I heard it. Is the mainstream media supposed to not let the experts get the word out as to what they know? Is the mainstream media supposed to keep quiet about the falsehoods spread by the president after they allow him to spout his nonsense on the air? The mainstream media is reporting that the number of new cases in China is declining, so that is good news. If stating what does and does not work in slowing the spread of the virus is all about negativity and sensationalism, if stating the facts and keeping people informed is somehow wrong, what is the news supposed to do instead? If you were running a news organization, what would you do differently regarding this virus?

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Hi Narvik2, welcome to the forum. 

Speaking of viruses, in "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events" Chapter 6, Session 840, Seth had some interesting things to say about both viruses and inoculations.

According to Rob's note that precede this session, Rob tells us that his and Jane's cat of 3 years, Billy, had recently died. As a result of this Rob was really interested in knowing what Seth had to say about the relationship that exists between the host organism and disease. In this session, Seth responded to Rob's question.

It sounds to me like this session wasn't actually planned by Seth to be part of "Mass Events" but based upon what Seth says to Rob and Jane here, Rob decided to include it in this book. I'm glad that he did.

Here's what Seth had to say on this topic.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

- jbseth

[Sena]

So today (we-I- have a gym, all closed) I have much time to turn the house upside down, cleaning
and reading Seth and have a walk with dogs.

Isa, it is good that you are occupying your time in a beneficial way by reading Seth etc. So you are allowed to walk outside with your dog? I would find it difficult to be cooped up inside.
Seth does have some startling things to say about epidemics:

"Now: To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are the result of a mass suicide phenomenon on the parts of those involved. Biological, sociological, or even economic factors may be involved, in that for a variety of reasons, and at different levels, whole groups of individuals want to die at any given time — but in such a way that their individual deaths amount to a mass statement.

[... 8 paragraphs ...]

Now if you believe in one life only, then such conditions will seem most disastrous, and in your terms they clearly are not pretty. Yet, though each victim in an epidemic may die his or her own death, that death becomes part of a mass social protest. The lives of intimate survivors are shaken, and according to the extent of the epidemic the various elements of social life itself are disturbed, altered, rearranged."

—Nature of Mass Events Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977

[Sena]

Speaking of viruses, in "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events" Chapter 6, Session 840, Seth had some interesting things to say about both viruses and inoculations

jbseth, thanks for taking the time to contribute. NOME is not a book I have fully read. A pandemic is certainly a "mass event", and Seth must have considered it an important topic to devote a book to it.

[Sena]

Anyone understand the big rush on toilet paper, how that has anything to do with the virus? I don't get it, and yet people are hoarding paper products and you can't find toilet paper anywhere. 

Deb, it's really funny about toilet paper. Freud would have had something to say about it: "Anally-fixated people".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_stage

[T.M.]

Hi All,

By the time I went out and got some extra t.p, it was mostly gone. I got a reasonable amount for myself.
The only reason I bought extra was because of the shortages I've heard of.
I moved out of that apartment last year, into an RV. Which I love. There's not a ton of space for stock piling though.
I normally buy bare minimum supplies. With what's going on in the world I think it's prudent to have a supply of food and water, and soap. Things that usually come from China, that aren't now. It is also providing a bit of piece of mind.

I don't think what's going on is purely organic. There's an element of that. I think this is being used to reorganize the world's society in a new way. To that end, most media is just propaganda. It usually is anyways.

I do think there's a large segment of the world's population in, basically, poverty and issues related to that.
I'm wondering if a large segment of the population is getting ready to go, over that, and issues related to it.

[Deb]

Where did you hear it if not in the media? That's where I heard it. Is the mainstream media supposed to not let the experts get the word out as to what they know? Is the mainstream media supposed to keep quiet about the falsehoods spread by the president after they allow him to spout his nonsense on the air? The mainstream media is reporting that the number of new cases in China is declining, so that is good news. If stating what does and does not work in slowing the spread of the virus is all about negativity and sensationalism, if stating the facts and keeping people informed is somehow wrong, what is the news supposed to do instead? If you were running a news organization, what would you do differently regarding this virus?

Thanks Larry for the invite to defend my personal opinions. It's clear we have different beliefs and I'd rather not argue, as I continue to try to keep SoS a "discussion forum where people can safely share their thoughts and opinions without criticism, judgment or attack." I don't listen to mainstream media, I try to get my news from places I consider less biased on either side of the fence.

Deb, it's really funny about toilet paper. Freud would have had something to say about it: "Anally-fixated people".

Ha ha ha Sena, thank you so much for that, much needed comic relief today. There have actually been "whispers" on apps like Next Door "pssst... the grocery store on such and such street still has toilet paper and hand sanitizer."

I'm a member of a traditional food based group called The Weston A. Price Foundation and they posted on Facebook some photos of grocery stores where the cereal, cookie and snack aisles were decimated. The narrative was:

"Did some grocery shopping and due to the coronavirus panic the shelves with simple processed carbs—white flour, sugar, pasta, and ultra-refined cereals—were almost stripped clean. In contrast and lucky for me, the meat, seafood, poultry, butter, fresh fruit and vegetables were untouched. I think the bad diet will kill more people than any virus!"

[narvik2]

what is the news supposed to do instead? If you were running a news organization, what would you do differently regarding this virus?

Yes, this is something I've been pondering a long time.
When talking with my long-time friend, a newspaper man, I did accuse him (them) about this kind of comunication.
(actually we talked about pornography and "social pornography" and media politics ).  He flatly answered me why they souldn't sell items that sell; this is demanded (?); and if they do not sell it someone else does.   - This left me without answer and looking deeper...still having no final answer. ( As our discussion did begin about pornography, and here now this is all another subject, although some same connections (why we sometimes like/need to roll in mud?), I had to admit that paid sex was surely a welcome relief system and maybe saved many from violent assault.)

[Sena]

I think this is being used to reorganize the world's society in a new way.

T.M., I agree. The epidemic may encourage people to think more spiritually. If we make a mess of our physical environment, we may be forced to become more aware of Framework 2.

[narvik2]

So great and useful answers, Thanks a lot!
"The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events" quote I printed, as I have it only on mp.3 and not printed.
BTW I really appreciate the peaceful tone of this forum.
As title under this discussion reads You Create Your Reality it says it.
Reading and re-reading, maybe I know it intellectually but still not really conceive.
viruses-social protest, upheaval - not only for poor I think, but it can be that many of us, also well-beeing part of citiciens, feel us restricted and much regulated - by institutions and so on.  well, institutions seem to have little trust on us, - and how much We trust ourselves?
sorry I mixed my earlier post answer to Larry trying to copy part of his post to mine.
The good meme from facebook (thank you Deb) i copied to some of my personal e-mails for my friends.

[narvik2]

I think this is being used to reorganize the world's society in a new way.

That's it!

[Sena]

BTW I really appreciate the peaceful tone of this forum.

Isa, it is a great forum, but we have not had many new members in the past few months, and none from Italy I am aware of. Your present and future contributions will be valuable.

[Marianna]

i have read Seth about - epidemics, illness, viruses etc - still it's not so easy not to get involved.Here i see with my eyes how much The Fear Commands. - I agree also about vaccines.

Hi narvik2!
Welcome to the forum! It is easy - not to get involved. If you decide not to. It is not like I am sitting on some high chair, saying I know everything and have all the answers.
I don't listen to/read news. And like you say - grand and bad news you hear anyway When someone sends me virus horror stories urging me to read and take precautions - I just don't read them. I can see what is happening through Seth philosophy and I do not have an urge to panic or to get angry or to argue. Because most people do not read Seth. They do not have the advantage of the knowledge. And I do not undertake to explain in 5 minutes what is in Seth 20-30 books

From what I understand of Seth explanation - since a lot of people are dying of the virus, it means they are or have been unhappy, desperate, not wish to go on living and want to escape. Using the disease - as a 'legitimate way" - instead of separate suicides. And mass suicide - is to make a point that so many things for so many people go wrong in this life.

On the good side - I welcome this time for reading and staying at home - with slowed business and less emails and calls every day. Great for cleaning the house and for sewing projects. Though I cannot go to Met Museum of Philharmonics (they are closed until March 31)

Vaccines are a nuisance. I am sure I don't need them.

I am so glad for you - that you came across Seth books. They have been so helpful for me in the last 5 years or so. I understand the impatience and the slowness of process. And the wish to have all the answers to all your particular questions and for your situation. But they always come - the more you read. I also found Personal Sessions especially useful (on Kindle).

Yes, our tome is just the right one - peaceful and not panicky
All the best,
Marianna

[Marianna]

And this is a special thanks that goes to Deb - for organizing the discussion - and for all sane participants. You all surely remember that only by your thoughts and attitude you are affecting the general situation.

I decided to stop by here  - wondering what Sethies feel and think about the situation? Do they panic and think that the virus might and will affect their health? 

I am glad to see there is no panic here and no calls to rush and stock on Purell and toilet paper.

With hectic and busy lives we lead, slowing down is very welcome.
Maybe it'll make people think. And leave iPhone alone for a while.

[Sena]

I am glad to see there is no panic here and no calls to rush and stock on Purell and toilet paper.

Marianna, thanks for your post.
One of the things being talked about with regard to the virus is the need for "herd immunity". This means that if many young healthy people get the virus, usually with a mild illness, the population as a whole will be protected.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-13/what-is-herd-immunity-and-can-it-help-the-uk-beat-coronavirus/

[Deb]

@Marianna, thanks for your wonderful posts!

On the good side - I welcome this time for reading and staying at home - with slowed business and less emails and calls every day. Great for cleaning the house and for sewing projects. Though I cannot go to Met Museum of Philharmonics (they are closed until March 31)

What a great attitude! I went out today to get some coffee and a few things for the fridge, there were lots of empty shelves at the stores and some pretty aggressive people. Two women actually got into a shouting match at Walmart. I got what I needed except I forgot horseradish, but I don't imagine there's going to by anyone hoarding that, lol. I'll get some tomorrow. I have enough food, Seth books, projects and art supplies to keep me busy for a long time. Luckily I work from home too.

We've been having a lot of closures and cancellations heretoo. Makes sense to me, I feel like the world should take about a two week sabbatical from travel and venue events and just chill. @narvik2, I saw on Facebook this morning an old school friend of mine's son is stationed in Italy somewhere, he and his family live on base. She said that only the pharmacies and grocery stores are open. That must feel strange in this day and age, it's good we have the internet to communicate with others. Is it really quiet where you are? People mostly staying home?

I'm glad you liked the "fear" meme. I don't want to make light of what's going on right now, it's real, but it was a nice reminder that these things happen every so often and they DO typically get resolved. We've come a long way in figuring out these things more quickly.

One of the things being talked about with regard to the virus is the need for "herd immunity". This means that if many young healthy people get the virus, usually with a mild illness, the population as a whole will be protected.

Sena thanks for sharing this article. I'd not heard of it before, but it makes sense. It was reminding me of when I was a kid and if a neighborhood kid came down with measles the moms would send all their kids over to get exposed and "get measles out of the way." Then they mentioned measles parties in the article!

If we make a mess of our physical environment, we may be forced to become more aware of Framework 2.

Wow, I hadn't thought about that but that makes sense.

sorry I mixed my earlier post answer to Larry trying to copy part of his post to mine.

No worries, it happens, easy to fix. It just takes a while to get used to the formatting tags. There was an extra close quote [/quote] tag in there, I took it out.

BTW Lynda Dahl has been putting up great health-related quotes on Facebook. She has such a reassuring kindness about her, it would be nice to meet her. I took the liberty of making a new topic called Seth and Our Health with two of her posts (some of the quotes have already been discussed here but they're worth repeating). I will continue to add to it as more gems come along. Please also feel free to contribute, the quotes don't have to be via Lynda. She just made it so easy.

[narvik2]

Good discussion, and it brings me back to read now specially Individual and Mass..and to adjust the sails.
To Larry and all, earlier dip about information, media and news,;  reading Seth Individual and nome:
Television interacts with your lives, but it does not cause your lives.
It does not cause the events that it depicts. With your great belief in
technology, it often seems to many people that television causes violence,
for example, or that it causes a love of overmaterial-ism, or that it causes
"loose morals." Television reflects. In a manner of speaking it does not
even distort, though it may reflect distortions. The writers and actors of
television dramas are attuned to the "mass mind." They are not leaders or
followers. They are creative reflectors, acutely aware of the overall,
generalized emotional and psychic patterns of the age.
They also make choices as to which plays they will take part in.
- Then we are free to choose.  So here we are.

[Sena]

The writers and actors of
television dramas are attuned to the "mass mind." They are not leaders or
followers. They are creative reflectors, acutely aware of the overall,
generalized emotional and psychic patterns of the age.
They also make choices as to which plays they will take part in.

Isa, thanks for this quote. So Seth is saying that television is not in itself hermful? in the present epidemic, I find the TV news helpful. There is always the tendency to sensationalize, but it is upto us to be aware of that.

[narvik2]

Thanks Sena!
I'm still pondering this.  I think...is it..what it is?  I mean..I think..here we have a lot of brain washing around.
Coming from - many parts.  Why we take it in?  Okay, from childhood we learn it's better to listen (and obey) - authorities.
So when little I learn (shoud) to obey my well meaning parents.  Then school and so on.  As a young adult i have a brain of an young adult.  Then I dive into the working world and my family.  Society where i grew and live is more or less restrictive and I hardly remember to have been encouraged to Use My Own Brains.  I'm not saying that I did not have this possiblity.  Sure it was there.  But...
Add this:
"We look outside, not external "- Seth. - sure.
( Now I'm not thinking about conspirations.) "we "-  I mean me, you, people, our "primitive society", howeverwewanttocallit  - then: How much Time we spend looking at tv?  Have we not something else that occupies us?  Do we have too much leisure time and don't know what to do with it; lazy and easy.
Now, am I judging?
-  keeping in mind the difference: judge or see the difference -
         Have a good day dear!

[Sena]

Society where i grew and live is more or less restrictive and I hardly remember to have been encouraged to Use My Own Brains.

Isa, I agree. But anyone who reads Seth seriously is beginning to think for himself or herself.

[Marianna]

in the present epidemic, I find the TV news helpful. There is always the tendency to sensationalize, but it is upto us to be aware of that.

Sena,
I do not watch TV that is why I am asking. In what way does the news help? Informing you of state of emergency, closed public building, airports and such - that is facts? Because telling you to be cautious, stay at home or wear rubber gloves cannot help very much.

But certainly it is not TV's fault that people panic and now your grandchildren do not get honey.
Yet, unfortunately we are yet to wait for a long time until TV will be more useful and saturated with Seth philosophy.

[Marianna]

Society where i grew and live is more or less restrictive and I hardly remember to have been encouraged to Use My Own Brains.  I'm not saying that I did not have this possiblity.  Sure it was there.  But...

narvik2,
You are so right here. It means, it does not matter, in what country one lives - Communist or Capitalist or any other. There are family/society restrictions, rules, and some of us are more ready than others - to follow.

I've had my share of following. Or rather - following blindly. Now I can choose. We all can.
Have a good weekend!

[Deb]

There is always the tendency to sensationalize, but it is up to us to be aware of that.

They have to do that to attract readers so their advertisers can sell their products and services to the widest audience possible. It's advertising space that funds the various "free" (non-subscription) media agencies and there's a lot of competition.

My reason for taking a break from the news from time to time is that it's often a constant barrage of the same thing, right now the virus, and you get what you focus on according to Seth. I also get tired of hearing the same thing. We had a topic going here a few years ago, The 'watching the news' dilemma, which was really good and also with some humor from some members. Here's a quote from the first post,

"You are meant to deal with your immediate, primary experience, and in so doing you take care of YOUR responsibility. You are able to take action in your own experience, and therefore affect others. You do not have to be ignorant of wars in other corners of the world, or close your eyes. But if you allow those experiences to overcloud your present, valid intersection with reality, then you speak and act from a position not your own, and deny the world whatever benefits your own present version of reality might allow you to give."

~ Seth (Jane Roberts), 'Nature of the Psyche', Session 799.

I'll probably read that entire topic tonight, it really was a good one.

Society where i grew and live is more or less restrictive and I hardly remember to have been encouraged to Use My Own Brains.  I'm not saying that I did not have this possiblity.  Sure it was there.  But...

Critical thinking is very important, I'm not sure it's even taught here in public schools. It's harder to teach when the kids are not all on the same page.

If anyone is interested in a more positive and non-sensationalized article from some media source I'd not heard of before, here's one: https://medium.com/@ra.hobday/coronavirus-and-the-sun-a-lesson-from-the-1918-influenza-pandemic-509151dc8065

Isa, great chicken photo! I have one that looks just like her.

[T.M.]

Hi All,

I kinda wonder if this has something to do with the change of the age?
Aquarius is actually an air sign, even though the symbol looks like a water sign. The virus is primarily Airborne.

Reports seem to suggest the young aren't hit anywhere near as hard as older people.
Is this somehow a way to embracing those with a different, newer outlook, while those of the past clear the way, or check out?
Perhaps knowing or being fundamentally not able or willing to change to the psychological framework of the new age?

Just pondering the idea, and it's symbology, as far as I can see.

[narvik2]

Wow ! Great, darned Good posts!
T.M. - about young, I think this can be one, also!
my boys (about 35 now ) - their fiends and lot of young and lovely persons I see in gym. they joke big about this.
There is such a good energy and feeling wheeling around.  (could keep only hidden training now-closed doors, trustful
persons - like alchol-prohibition times)

Thank you thank you and love !
from this "chicken who's picking golden bits" from this forum

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Narvik2,

I'm in my mind 50's, and honestly this world to my perceptions is turning into something I don't recognize. Mostly due to the technology, and it's advances.
I was thinking this morning. My past was cowboys and Indians roaming the planes, the roaring 20's, and still a very much wild west type world.
Then I thought, that recent past is probably completely alien to the younger generation.
Whose past is probably Xbox game's and the internet, and computers, lol. For them a very much more technological experience/existence.

[Sena]

In what way does the news help?

Marianna, thanks for your question. I am 70 years and suffer from mild bronchial asthma. I learned from the TV news that those over 60 and with underlying health conditions are more likely to die of coronavirus. I am not quite ready to pass on to the next world. I also learned from the TV news that travelling on the underground train is somewhat risky because those trains are not well ventilated. So I avoid underground trains as far as possible. I go for long walks and go into food shops when necessary.

[Sena]

Perhaps knowing or being fundamentally not able or willing to change to the psychological framework of the new age?

T.M., thanks for your post. All humans, young and old, will have to chnage their psychological framework if there is a major collapse of the world economy.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

For me, three of the greatest concepts of Seth's teachings are these:

1) You create your reality
2) The existence of "probable realities" and
3) The recognition that Framework 2 is bent towards "positive" developments


In NOME, Ch4, S826, Seth says:

"Framework 2 is not neutral, but automatically inclined toward what we here term good or constructive developments. It is a growth medium. Constructive or "positive" feelings or thoughts are more easily materialized than "negative" ones, because they are in keeping with Framework 2's characteristics."


While it is possible, that, as a result of the coronavirus, the world's economy will take a nose dive afterwards. It's also just as possible, that it won't.  In 1987, the stock market took a nose dive of 500 points in one day. During that time, there were many people speculating that the stock market was going to collapse.  It didn't however, and based upon that fact, I'd say that we opted to choose a different probable reality at that time.


After this coronavirus issue that we're dealing with right now is over, there's no reason why we can't move into a probable reality where the stock market completely recovers.

Seth tells us that if we focus on the negative, we'll draw it to us.

This is a time where we can now choose our future by what we opt to focus on.

I'm focusing on a positive outcome. Are you with me?


-jbseth

[Sena]

After this coronavirus issue that we're dealing with right now is over, there's no reason why we can't move into a probable reality where the stock market completely recovers.

jbseth, I hope you are right, but I will not be investing in the stock market at the moment!

[Deb]

Framework 2 is not neutral, but automatically inclined toward what we here term good or constructive developments. It is a growth medium. Constructive or "positive" feelings or thoughts are more easily materialized than "negative" ones, because they are in keeping with Framework 2's characteristics.

I'm keeping my focus on this, very good news. I went for a walk today, beautiful weather, and made it a point to look for all the beauty and the 95% of normalcy that surrounded me, as opposed to what I consider the 5% of weirdness I've seen in grocery stores. Nevermind the news. I think most humans tend to focus on what's wrong in their lives and not enough on what's right, striving for some sort of perfection which Seth has said is not realistic. Life would be much more enjoyable if we learn to focus on what's right.

I'm focusing on a positive outcome. Are you with me?

Count me in. Totally.

[Marianna]

"You are meant to deal with your immediate, primary experience, and in so doing you take care of YOUR responsibility. You are able to take action in your own experience, and therefore affect others. You do not have to be ignorant of wars in other corners of the world, or close your eyes. But if you allow those experiences to overcloud your present, valid intersection with reality, then you speak and act from a position not your own, and deny the world whatever benefits your own present version of reality might allow you to give."

Deb, what a wonderful quote, thanks! So relevant!
Like you mentioned your walk and easy errands and shopping - I am going to the city tomorrow (NYC) - to run errands and write letters. it will be quieter and less crowded. Forecast also promises sun!

[narvik2]

Yes, count me in too!

Quote:  " what you decide, so it will be".
Only, I do not know (always/now) - What I want? - I mean...
Here, now, most business is closed.  Silence, peace, time, clear sky, no pollution, no hectic traffic.  Feels most motion has stopped, ---are we stopped to think?  Do we want "All that" start again?  Production, pollution, waste, consume? 
Yes, stocks are dropping - so my lifetime savings.  World economics - is there anything that can grow forever...in this way?

And yes, I believe I live in a safe universe.  We/I shall be fine.  However it goes.
So...isn't this a quite remarkable adventure?

This life, so incredibly beautiful/terrible

[Sena]

So...isn't this a quite remarkable adventure?

Isa, yes, life is a remarkable adventure.

[narvik2]

Hi All
The discussion "Hitler and probabilities" has much affinity with todays situation.
So many beautiful things written there, nothing to add.
Today when I was outside it seemed possible to hear the grass growing.

[Marianna]

is there anything that can grow forever...in this way?And yes, I believe I live in a safe universe.  We/I shall be fine.  However it goes.  So...isn't this a quite remarkable adventure?

Narvik2,
I am glad you feel so too - that we Are safe and will be fine.
It is a most remarkable adventure.
I don't think I want to come back to my life as it used to be. This time for slowing down and reflection will help me to implement some changes.
It is the understanding of things that can grow forever And when you are in your proper good place, you cannot be destitute. The abundance will come inevitably.