The creation of the natural world

[chasman]

and this looks like an interesting article about the creation of the natural world:



https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/08/18/how-physics-erases-the-beginning-of-the-universe/#16d08f96397e

[Deb]

Deb, I think the definition of science should be broadened.

Thanks for the Tarnas book recommendation, I'll check it out. I'd never been that much interested in Carl Jung or psychology, but Jung is mentioned 29 times in this book I'm reading and I'm now more interested in learning more about Jung's ideas. The book shows Jung believed in synchronicity and collective consciousness, which makes me wonder what other things he was open-minded towards.

I agree the definition of science should be broadened, but we're pretty deep in a phase of hard-core scientific materialism, which I feel is holding the world back from seeing the bigger picture:

"You cannot use camouflage to see through camouflage."
—TES1 Session 19 January 27, 1964

I'm getting to the point where I find Seth's explanation of the "beginning" of the universe easier to accept than all of the theories of the Big Bang. The last sentence in that Forbes article is "where did all this come from?" That the universe "came" from something means that "something" was already there prior to that event—so where did THAT something come from? This is the kind of stuff that makes my brain throw in the towel.

And yes, I'm loving the Mind to Matter book! Church has done a very good job of demonstrating that we make our reality in many ways, with loads of examples and quotes from scientists that the world views as respectable authorities in their fields. I've been learning so much!

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I always felt that Carl Jung was more open to spiritual concepts, than Freud.

Jung had a great synchronistic story having to do with a scarab beetle; see spoiler below.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

In TES9, S509, Seth talks a little about Jung and his (Seth's) concepts having to do with the outer ego, the inner ego and how the inner ego creates the reality that the outer ego experiences. I think its one of Seth's most interesting sessions.
 

-jbseth

[Sena]

In TES9, S509, Seth talks a little about Jung and his (Seth's) concepts having to do with the outer ego, the inner ego and how the inner ego creates the reality that the outer ego experiences. I think its one of Seth's most interesting sessions.

jbseth, yes, Seth's interpretation of Jung is quite interesting:

"Now the inner ego is the organizer of experience that Jung would call unconscious. The inner ego is another term for what we call the inner self. As the outer ego manipulates within the environment and physical reality, so the inner ego or self organizes and manipulates within an inner reality. The inner ego creates that physical reality with which the outer ego then deals. Now all the richly creative, original work that is done by this inner self is not unconscious. It is purposeful, highly (underlined) discriminating, performed by the inner conscious ego, of which the exterior ego is but a shadow, and not you see the other way around.  Jung's dark side of the self is the ego, not the unconscious. The complicated, infinitely varied, unbelievably rich tapestry of Jung's, in quotes "unconscious," could hardly be unconscious. It is the product of an inner consciousness with far more sense of identity and purpose than the daily ego. It is the daily ego's ignorance and limited focus that makes it view so-called unconscious activity as chaotic.  The conscious ego rises indeed out of quote "the unconscious," but the unconscious being the creator of the ego, is necessarily far more conscious than its offspring. The ego is simply not conscious enough to be able to contain the vast knowledge that belongs to the inner conscious self from which it springs." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 9 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

https://amzn.eu/eawBt2e

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Thanks Sena.

Here's what Seth says about Jung and unconsciousness. I don't know that any psychologists see the "unconsciousness" in quite the same way that Seth describes it.

If Seth is correct here, then I think that this line of thinking might have a major impact on how psychologists view "unconsciousness".


The quote below, is the first part of TES9, S509. Right after this, Seth goes on the quote the text that Sena has quoted in reply 53 of this topic.



TES9, S509:
Now. There is one large point, underestimated by all of your psychologists, when they list the characteristics or attributes of consciousness. I am going to tie in this material with our discussion on what you call our EE units (electromagnetic), as there is a very close connection.

Now let us start with Jung for a bit. He presumes that consciousness must be organized about an ego structure. And what he calls the unconscious, not so egotistically organized, he therefore considers without consciousness, without consciousness of a self.

He makes a good point, saying that the ego cannot know unconscious material directly. He does not realize however, nor do your other psychologists, what I have told you often—that there is an inner ego; and it is this inner ego that organizes what Jung would call unconscious material.

Again, when you are in a state that is not the normal waking one, when you have forsaken this daily self, you are nevertheless conscious and alert. You merely block out the memory from the normal waking ego. So when the attributes of consciousness are given, creativity is largely ignored. It is assigned instead primarily to the unconscious. My point is that the unconscious is conscious. Creativity is one of the most important attributes and aspects of consciousness. We will differentiate between normal ego consciousness then, and consciousness that only appears unconscious to that ego.


-jbseth

[Sena]

Jung had a great synchronistic story having to do with a scarab beetle; see spoiler below.

Spoiler
"Jung's most famous case of synchronicity in psychotherapy was with the woman patient who recited a dream she had had in which she was given a costly piece of jewelry, a golden scarab (beetle). While she was relating the dream Jung heard something tapping at the window from outside. Jung opened the window and in flew a scarbaeid beetle which he caught in his hand, its gold-green color resembling that of the golden scarab in the woman's dream. He handed the beetle to his patient and said, "Here is your scarab."

jbseth, it would seem that synchronicity is sometimes an instance of the unconscious becoming conscious. In other words, it was the woman patient's inner self which was responsible for the beetle tapping on the window.