Vaccinations, Seth, the Spacious Mind and Food for Thought

[Deb]

This letter to the editor was in the most recent volume of Wise Traditions. I didn't plan on reading the issue, which is devoted to the U.S. vaccination debate, because it's not a debate for me. But somehow I managed to open the volume and this letter JUMPED out at me. Very unusual, I think, to speak of spirituality in a publication devoted to farming and traditional foods.

Vaccinations and Spiritual Growth

In the early 1920s, the esoteric philosopher Rudolf Steiner warned that in the future, vaccines would be designed as (sic) make it impossible for individuals to have a spiritual life—that people who got vaccines would be unable to recognize or understand the existence of a supersensible world and the role it plays in our lives, and only accept as real the physical world they can see, touch and hear.

There is an actual scientific explanation for this effect: the mercury and aluminum in vaccines have adverse effects on the pineal gland. The pineal gland is said to be the 'seat of the soul,' and Steiner said that the pineal gland would gradually evolve to become a 'third eye' that would allow us, as fully developed individuals, to see into and receive enlightenment from the spiritual worlds. Thus, the practice of vaccination disrupts this process of evolution, one that human beings long for, one that Steiner claimed is actually necessary for our happiness and survival.

B.S., Rockville, Maryland
Wise Traditions, Volume 16, Number 2, Summer 2015

This reminded me of Seth talking about how our bodies take care of themselves, something the world of modern medical science is slow to recognize. But there are a few who have caught on. More about that another time. Seth: "Miracles are nature unimpeded."

Seth talked about side effects from drugs:

"The body knows how to handle 'natural' drugs coming directly from the earth—whether ground or boiled, minced or steamed. A large variety of 'manufactured' drugs offer an unfamiliarity to the body's innate structure, which can lead to strong defense mechanisms. These are often aimed directly against the drug instead of the disease itself. Such a situation means that you must then use another drug to counteract the one just given." NOPR § 631 9:37 pm (this said in 1972!)

Then:

"But the spacious mind operates through your creaturehood; in your terms it represents latent abilities of consciousness that can be more or less normal functions.
There are built-in biological structures that are activated for the reception of such messages. They will not be triggered on a personal basis until your own beliefs allow you to perceive the multidimensional layers of your own experience or at least to accept the possibilities."

and. . .

"Physiologically you carry within yourselves remnants of your evolution,
in your terms—physical vestiges of organs and other attributes long discarded...
In the same way, you also carry within you structures not fully used;
those organizations point—in your terms now—toward future evolution.
Use of the spacious mind involves these." Ibid., 10:45

So, then my mind travels to the thought that maybe this Steiner was right. Pineal gland? What else?

Maybe now we'd be better at operating through the spacious mind if we hadn't all grown up with vaccinations and Big Pharma. Over the past several years, with the rise in chronic illnesses in children, autism in particular, many people are fighting against mandatory vaccinations. So maybe the time is coming, for subsequent generations, to begin to evolve their consciousness and ability to communicate on a different level than ours. As a wise and beloved friend said to me recently, [The] "Next generation should be more clever than the past." Evolution of consciousness. Rarely, if ever, the straight and narrow path.

[silverflow]

Deb,

I am not an expert.  But "the seat of the soul"/third eye with regards to the pineal gland came from Descartes, and has been carried through in science due to it's comparison to the parietal 'eye' (which is photoreceptive).  The known function of the pineal gland is melatonin production, which can and does deteriorate retina cells. 

While some vaccines have proved to be beneficial (polio, for example), others are completely unnecessary.  What is more insidious is the lackadaisical attitude regarding allowing others to dictate what is good for the self.  What has been purported as healthy by "Big Brother" over the past 100-ish years or so is anything but.  The recommended "healthy" foods are the major premise behind declining health - including the health of fetuses.  Now, while that is coming from a scientific perspective, I also embrace YCYOR.  So, bottom line is each individual decides.  However, these are the questions I hold in my mind when learning the science:  Is this unhealthy "health" promoting leaving an open door for those wanting issues related to such health issues?  Is this feeding a sort of self-pity party?  Is this demonstrating those who are and are not aware of their own power?  I don't think there is any one answer, only an infinite number of answers.  But, I do wonder if there will come a time when more do awaken to their own being.....


Peace

[John Sorensen]

I have attempted to do some reading on the vaccine  for / against topics which have been coming up more and more in american online articles, books, publications etc.

But so far I have found junk science on BOTH sides of the argument, and really found nothing useful from what I have read. It seems there are too many agendas and money to be made, and it is hard to find good unbiased information on this topic.

Some of the reasonable stuff I have read comes from the Weston A Price foundation, but even they get a bit fanatical with some of their views, which seems to be more involved with the highly political nature of "health" issues in the US of A, and their advocacy for wholefoods and the right to choose.

I still find it laughable that I can go buy alcohol or even petrol (for arguments sake) and drink if I want to, but unprocessed milk is illegal in many places in the OZ and the US.

Anyhow, if anybody here has any good books to recommend reading on the pros AND  cons of vaccination it would be really helpful. But I am not interested in reading someones political agenda, which is what a lot of those books on this topic talk about.

[Deb]

It seems there are too many agendas and money to be made, and it is hard to find good unbiased information on this topic.

YES! You've hit that nail on the head. Pharma in the US is out of control. I can't drive down the street without signs everywhere "get your flu shot here," "get 10% off your grocery bill if you get a flu shot today," and all the scare tactics with things like shingles. That's what started making me suspicious years ago. Friends getting flu shots and then getting the flu. Hearing about the filler stuff they put in the serum. And I have not found any unbiased information. But the pushing of medications on people, wanting to make some mandatory... it drives me crazy. I want the freedom to choose what I do with or put in my own body.

Some of the reasonable stuff I have read comes from the Weston A Price foundation, but even they get a bit fanatical with some of their views

Yes the do. But I'd take them over the reports and studies from pharmaceutical companies any day. And yes, the food and eating habits in America are deplorable. Don't get me started, lol. I've been known to rant. I have a blog too and I'm not afraid to use it.

I still find it laughable that I can go buy alcohol or even petrol (for arguments sake) and drink if I want to, but unprocessed milk is illegal in many places in the OZ and the US.

YES again! I'm in Colorado, I could walk into a store and buy marijuana in any form (and they've really gotten creative, believe me) or grow my own but have to use loopholes to buy raw, unpasteurized milk. Amish farms have been raided by the FDA, armed with machine guns and in full body armor, because of the raw milk issue. All I can see in my mind is these long-bearded peaceful Amish men, with suspenders, their hands up while the FDA gangsters hold them at gunpoint. "Okay buddy, hand over the milk." Ridiculous.

[Deb]

While some vaccines have proved to be beneficial (polio, for example), others are completely unnecessary.  What is more insidious is the lackadaisical attitude regarding allowing others to dictate what is good for the self.  What has been purported as healthy by "Big Brother" over the past 100-ish years or so is anything but.  The recommended "healthy" foods are the major premise behind declining health - including the health of fetuses. 

Yes Silverflow, I agree. I wholeheartedly want to be able to choose what I consume, inject into my body, wear... on and on. Too many people have trusted our government to tell us what's good and safe and I know too much about how that all works.

Now I ponder over my interest in organic and nutrient-dense foods to fuel the body and give it the raw materials it needs to do it's job vs. Seth saying that it's all about what we believe. So the theory goes that if I believe cheeseburgers are good for my body, healthy, I can eat them three times a day forever and flourish. But I seem to enjoy the "game" of eating real food and rejecting what we are told by the authorities.

[John Sorensen]

Yeah I think everyone goes through the 5 Stages of being mad at the government about something.

I just assume all  governments are corrupt evil super-villains, but when when things go well and roads get made etc, I am pleasantly surprised!

[LenKop]

In Australia, at a federal level, the govt has introduced laws that deny those lower income earners financial benefits for not vaccinating their children. At a state level, there are laws recently passed that will keep unvaccinated kids out of child care and kindergarten. I'm currently reading Mass Events, and I ponder the ramifications of mass beliefs in these circumstances. Possibly the mass belief that certain medications work has pushed these (and other) laws into place. Or the clash of new and old beliefs, in the midst of mass changes, forcing the old system to hold on in in any way possible to what once was. Cross referencing with ancient peoples' traditions of circular time waves, and changing of ages as humanity awakens and vibrations change, I think the old guard, secured in their power and beliefs, would feel definitely threatened if the masses understood we co create our world. 


LK

[Deb]

In Australia, at a federal level, the govt has introduced laws that deny those lower income earners financial benefits for not vaccinating their children. At a state level, there are laws recently passed that will keep unvaccinated kids out of child care and kindergarten.

Wow, that hardly seems legal. Another example of abuse of power. But, similar problems in the US where some medical professionals have lost their jobs because they refuse to be vaccinated, kids not being allowed to attend schools and daycares (even sending my kid to college, he had to prove that his vaccinations were up to date). Not to mention the divisiveness this topic causes and the hatred that gets slung around as a result.

There's a lot of corruption in pharmaceuticals, conspiracy, questionable ingredients, controversy over serious side effects (such as the ADD, autism, etc debates). Yes, the mass conscious beliefs tie in as well. It's a big topic.

At least in the US, one can claim vaccinations are against their religion (we can even invent our own religion, such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Pastafarianism ) and make our own rules, but not without a fight. Making our own reality on many levels...

[John Sorensen]

I still find it bizarre with all the numerous scientific studies of various drugs, chemicals, medications etc (some of which have clear benefits, others not so much) that the Placebo and No-cebo effect is not more commonly understood.


It seems likely to me that a large amount of pills and potions are really the placebo effect at work. The bizarre thing is even when doctors and patients know about this effect, they keep taking pills, often with unpleasant side effects.


To my way of thinking any medicine, practice or therapy or whatever should seek to do the least amount of harm, and we should look for non-invasive methods without side effects to try first, before going into treatments that are seriously invasive.


It seems out medical system is the reverse of that.
For example how many people are on drugs to lower blood pressure?
Something that is easily managed by learning meditation, or failing that, solely by gripping/squeezing objects as hard as you can for several minutes, once a day, can lower your high blood pressure drug free in a matter of days.


Our entire medical system seems to be built around give me the quick fix, something external to your body that you can see or at least read a label on. If people start healing themselves with their mind only, their is no profit in it. It also means actually using your brain and consciously communicating with your body, rather than asking a doctor to fix you up.

We want drive through cures and medicine that require no thought, learning or effort so we can get back to ignorantly doing whatever made us sick in the first place.

[Deb]

Our entire medical system seems to be built around give me the quick fix, something external to your body that you can see or at least read a label on. If people start healing themselves with their mind only, their is no profit in it. It also means actually using your brain and consciously communicating with your body, rather than asking a doctor to fix you up.

You've hit that nail on the head. One of the most interesting things I learned from The Placebo Effect was that people on the placebos experienced their own bodies kicking in and creating the chemicals that the drug was supposed to supply to them (such as in the case of antidepressants, for example).

Yes, we've been sold a pack of lies by Western medicine, being told that our bodies cannot heal themselves, that we need doctors, drugs, surgery, hospitals to make us better. Fed this misinformation from birth, reinforced by everyone around us. And the desire of the medical profession and pharmaceutical companies to not heal us, but instead create a perpetually returning customer. Once you're on most prescriptions, it's a lifetime commitment. Treat the symptoms, not the root of the problem, and you have a customer for life.

I'm headed off Thursday afternoon to spend the weekend at a Joe Dispenza workshop and have a longer one scheduled for February. In February I'll be volunteering to have the brain mapping scans done (before and after meditation) and body energy scans done with a device based on Kirlian photography.

All I need to do now is try to get Joe to hire me.

There's a man who not only tells people that they create their own reality, health, bodies... but how and why it works and with "how to" lessons to boot. He's very passionate about his work and that's very contagious.

[Monica]

We want drive through cures and medicine that require no thought, learning or effort so we can get back to ignorantly doing whatever made us sick in the first place.

An interesting statement, as it suggests a lot of people dislike the symptoms of their behavioural and mental patterns rather than the patterns themselves, which perhaps explains why 'symptom treatment' is so popular! It's a bit like heavy drinkers who dislike hangovers, but won't stop the actions that cause them.

[LenKop]

I don't think many are even looking for a real fix, quick or otherwise. Most just want relief. As long as there's no pain in the moment, they're happier. Hence why the pharma industry is so big and growing. Band Aid solutions without thinking about the side effects and augmented issues later.  It really brings the traditional scientific beliefs into focus for me - mankind being apart from nature, and without spirit, just a coincidental species striving to survive as the strongest. And so outside forces create the problems, so outside solutions relieve them. Then they ask 'why does it always happen TO me?' And the cycle continues.....


LK

[Deb]

We want drive through cures and medicine that require no thought, learning or effort so we can get back to ignorantly doing whatever made us sick in the first place.

An interesting statement, as it suggests a lot of people dislike the symptoms of their behavioural and mental patterns rather than the patterns themselves, which perhaps explains why 'symptom treatment' is so popular!

John's statement didn't sink in until I saw Monica's response to it (thanks Monica!). My mind kept going back to this all day.

I've seen doctors quickly reach for the prescription pad when learning of a new symptom in a patient, no questions asked. It's automatic, the way they've been trained and courted by Big Pharma. Probably also some liability issues there. But I think doctors also realize that most people would rather just take the magic pill than have to modify/adjust/amend their behavior and habits. That's on the this-reality level.

But John's explanation, on the you-make-your-own-reality-level, is spot on. Seth has said that illness is a symptom of some inner turmoil that has not been resolved. Our belief in medicine and doctors will most times give us relief, but if the cause is not resolved another symptom will crop up. To examine beliefs and thoughts, modify/adjust/amend them to eliminate the cause of the illness, is a foreign concept to the uninitiated. It's just not part of the Official Line of Consciousness. And too much work?

This concept is something I will most likely continue to ponder.

I read a book last year about illness as a metaphor, very interesting stuff. (Not the book by Susan Sontag, which comes up on my Google search. I need to track down the book and the author and will update here when I find it.) But exciting to me that more medical professionals are starting to get "it".

An aside:
I've wondered why Joe Dispenza has never mentioned Anita Moorjani in any of his lectures or workshops focused on change your mind/change your life. She's probably one of the most dramatic examples of that.  Someone said to me that Anita was associated with Wayne Dyer and so there may be some contractual obligations there. But about an hour ago I received an email announcing a Hay House pod cast with Anita and Joe, so I thought I'd share. It's Wednesday December 9 at 12:00 pm Pacific Time. More information can be found here.

Also, here's a link to a BBC article on placebos -- also from a Joe Dispenza email: BBC News

Well, okay, one more link. On reading books on the power of belief, some times multiple personality disorder is used as an example (some personalities have life-threatening allergies, some don't, eye color changes, etc.). Here's another article from a Joe email, about a woman with MPD, some of whom were blind.

[JimK]

I hadn't read books by Dr Joe Dispenza so I checked his books on Amazon and they sound really good. I did download a sample of his You Are the Placebo. I'm going to order it. I've been fascinated by the placebo effect for a long long time. Thanks for the heads up on him.

[Deb]

I hadn't read books by Dr Joe Dispenza so I checked his books on Amazon

Jim, you won't regret it! I've followed Joe for years. I got the Placebo book at my library this summer and after reading a couple of chapters decided to buy the audio version for a road trip. It was SO good that I listened to it twice on the trip--out to CA and back to CO--and then immediately signed up for one of his workshops (and I'm leaving Thursday for another one). I have to say it's his best book so far and the information it presents fascinates the heck out of me. I hope you enjoy it!

[LenKop]

Thanks for the link to the multiple personalities Deb. It was interesting to read just how malleable physical reality really is. Blind one moment, seeing the next.  What gets me is that the experts still can't separate the mind from the physical brain, and perhaps in many ways they are connected, but to point to particular areas of the brain in the hope to find answers for these types of experiences seems very limiting.


LK

[John Sorensen]

I hadn't read books by Dr Joe Dispenza so I checked his books on Amazon and they sound really good. I did download a sample of his You Are the Placebo. I'm going to order it. I've been fascinated by the placebo effect for a long long time. Thanks for the heads up on him.

Hey Jim, check out also some Joe's talks on YouTube, just go to YouTube and type in his name, there is some good stuff on there. Some are videos, others just audio.

[John Sorensen]

Thanks for the link to the multiple personalities Deb. It was interesting to read just how malleable physical reality really is. Blind one moment, seeing the next.  What gets me is that the experts still can't separate the mind from the physical brain, and perhaps in many ways they are connected, but to point to particular areas of the brain in the hope to find answers for these types of experiences seems very limiting.


LK

When one of the greatest scientists who ever lived comes and says that matter basically doesn't exist, then the impression given over the last 100+ years is one ignorance and almost wilful stupidity in our Sciences as they are still taught today.


Max Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter"

[LenKop]

From Mass Events....


'Generally speaking, creativity has female connotations in your society, while power has masculine connotations, and is largely thought of as destructive.


Your scientists are, generally now, intellectually oriented, believing in reason above intuitions, taking it for granted that those qualities are opposites. They cannot imagine life's "initial" creative source, for in their terms it would remind them of creativity's feminine basis.' Session 853 Mass Events.


Apart from the few, particularly in the Quantuum field, the ignorance (and corruption) of the sciences only seems to be getting worse the more 'scientificaly advanced' we are becoming. LOL


LK

[John Sorensen]

From Mass Events....


'Generally speaking, creativity has female connotations in your society, while power has masculine connotations, and is largely thought of as destructive.


Your scientists are, generally now, intellectually oriented, believing in reason above intuitions, taking it for granted that those qualities are opposites. They cannot imagine life's "initial" creative source, for in their terms it would remind them of creativity's feminine basis.' Session 853 Mass Events.


Apart from the few, particularly in the Quantuum field, the ignorance (and corruption) of the sciences only seems to be getting worse the more 'scientificaly advanced' we are becoming. LOL


LK

While I'm grateful for all the wonders of modern science, to me so much of it is also associated with a patriarchal society that refuses to acknowledge the true role of women in society, Science as we know it tends to ve over-exaggerated male values of domination, exploitation, conquest and ignoring anything that is does not conform to hard line material reality, and when things are unexplainable or clearly not obeying the laws of "physics" then those topics are politely not talked about, and funding for such projects is not considered important.

It still boggles my mind that mainline science continues to deny and disredit all types of psi/psy phenomena meanwhile governments such as in the US did over a decade of experiments with remote viewing and other mumbo jumbo.

[JimK]

Thanks for the heads up on the Youtube stuff, John. I'll check it out.

[Deb]

I've been out of town, still am, so I've been quiet but still keeping up with this topic.
I just sat down to write and realized how tired I really am. I didn't realize how exhausting GREAT meditation can be, Joe really worked us. And yes, it was physical, not your typical meditation. But I can say I've made some exciting progress and now there's no stopping me! Just a couple of remarks and then I'm going to crash for the night.

It still boggles my mind that mainline science continues to deny and disredit all types of psi/psy phenomena meanwhile governments such as in the US did over a decade of experiments with remote viewing and other mumbo jumbo.

I have to agree, that was a very long time ago, you'd think we would have made some more progress in opening a few minds by this point. And the Americans wouldn't have done the research if it wasn't for the Russians. America is like our president: leading from behind, lol. Oops, did I say that?

"In 1967, it was learned, the Soviets were spending an estimated
US$500 million a year on parapsychological related research.
The money was being used to fund fourteen separate research institutes.
This naturally worried the Americans,
who deduced a hostile intent behind the Soviet's actions."

Max Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such.

He wasn't alone (seems Einstein did in fact say this, you never know these days, stuff off the internet)

"Concerning matter, we have been all wrong...
What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered
as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter."

Why didn't they tell me this in school?

While I'm grateful for all the wonders of modern science, to me so much of it is also associated with a patriarchal society that refuses to acknowledge the true role of women in society,

This also bothers me, the fact that we've made so little progress over so much time. Seth had a lot to say about gender, treatment/view of women,  such as Len's quote from Mass Events. I should probably get a topic going on that when I get back in town.

Apart from the few, particularly in the Quantuum field, the ignorance (and corruption) of the sciences only seems to be getting worse the more 'scientificaly advanced' we are becoming. LOL

And this—is certainly very obvious in the medical sciences. Joe had some amazing explanations for how our minds/beliefs affect our bodies, health, matter... combining physics, physiology and genetic expression in a way that it all makes perfect sense. He is getting attention from different scientific discipline, so maybe there will be the opening of some minds soon.

[Mik]

Hi,

We shape Our Lives with what we believe *combined* with what lessons we need to learn.

1) If getting a vaccine makes you feel better about the future: Get it.

2) If you  - need -  to learn a specific lesson about handling certain pains and sickness: it's going to happen . . . . (Try to learn the specific lesson.)

 

Happiness.
    Mik.

[inavalan]

I disagree with your take on vaccines. Seth seems to disagree too.

"[... 13 paragraphs ...]

The official mentioned, by the way, that there was indeed no direct evidence connecting past flu shots with the occurrence of a rather bizarre disease that some of those inoculated with the flu vaccine happened to come down with.4 All in all, it was quite an interesting announcement, with implications that straddle biology, religion, and economics. "The flu season" is in a way an example of a psychologically-manufactured pattern that can at times bring about a manufactured epidemic.

[... 10 paragraphs ...]

So the Christmas season carries a man's hopes in your society, and the flu season mirrors his fears and shows the gulf between the two.

[... 10 paragraphs ...]

Your private beliefs merge with those of others, and form your cultural reality. The distorted ideas of the medical profession or the scientists, or of any other group, are not thrust upon you, therefore. They are the result of your mass beliefs — isolated in the form of separate disciplines. Medical men, for example, are often extremely unhealthy because they are so saddled with those specific health beliefs that their attention is concentrated in that area more than others not so involved. The idea of prevention is always based upon fear — for you do not want to prevent something that is joyful. Often, therefore, preventative medicine causes what it hopes to avoid. Not only does the idea [of prevention] continually promote the entire system of fear, but specific steps taken to prevent a disease in a body not already stricken, again, often set up reactions that bring about side effects that would occur if the disease had in fact been suffered.

[... 24 paragraphs ...]"

—NoME Part One: Chapter 2: Session 814, October 8, 1977

[inavalan]

"THE CONSTANT CREATION OF THE PHYSICAL BODY

Chapter Five. (Pause.) "The Constant Creation of the Physical Body." As mentioned (in Chapter Four), the conscious mind is a portion of the inner self; that part that surfaces, so to speak, and meets physical reality more or less directly.

[... 14 paragraphs ...]

In that context you can even appear taller, and affect others as if you were — which would usually be what you wanted in any case under the circumstances. But except for some conditions which will be mentioned later, you can become healthy if you are ill, slim if you are overweight, gain weight if you prefer, or alter your physical image in profound fashion through the use of your ideas and beliefs.

They form the blueprint by which you make your body, whether you have known this or not. Your body is an artistic creation, formed and constantly maintained at unconscious levels, but quite in line with your beliefs about what and who you are.

[... 2 paragraphs ...]

Now: Dictation: You constantly give yourself suggestions about your body, your health or ill health. You think about your body often, then. You send a barrage of beliefs and instructions to the inner self that affect your physical image.

[... 13 paragraphs ...]

The inner self always attempts to maintain the body's equilibrium and health, but many times your own beliefs prevent it from coming to your aid with even half of the energy available to it. Often only when you are in dire straits do you open up the doors to this great energy, when it is much too clear that your previous beliefs and behavior have not worked.

[... 14 paragraphs ...]"

—NoPR Part One: Chapter 5: Session 623, October 25, 1972

[Mik]

I understand, I read that before I made my answer. And vaccines are a tough subject. But if an individual "Creates their (the) Universe, then an external vaccine can't hurt us - if we don't let it.

Everyone is far more powerful than they have any idea. If they believe a vaccine will hurt them (either physically or spiritually) it will. And if they believe otherwise, then what they believe will come true.

Always remember the most basic fact.


Happiness.
  Mik.



PS: I wrote the above while you sent your next comment. And I skimmed through it. I'll read it thoroughly tomorrow.

But for now, I still stand by this response. In my skimming I read something along the lines of, and seriously paraphrasing, "You send your body signals that define it."

My response continued: We are all far more powerful than any of us really understand. We set our limits. Not Society. Not things that we are told. Not science. And I believe Seth says that all over the place.


(Yes still) Happiness.
                Mik.