Seths 'undifferentiated level', Buddist 'jhana', + my 'void states'

[voidypaul]

   Yoo hoo , Barrie , guess who .   Looks like i'll have to put you straight on a few things .


    Barrie  said  ;   Hi Paul, these are your two quotes that I am now responding to:

1. Paul Had Earlier Written: "You (Len) also said ''Why do I need to visit the void to learn how to live in the moment?   Because on the other side of the void (so to spk) is the spacious present."

   Paul   ;   
               Ok so maybe i should say , that when one enters into viod + fulfills all intesities (Seth) inherent in the void or Seth's undiff' field (including nonbeing) then one will come into awareness of the initial void state created by ATI from which all other void states arise + will become con's aware of the sp'pr' as it exists in all sys' of manif', before returning to the physical sys'  .
               Oh , + sorry Len one does not need to go into viod to be able to live in the moment , uness you want that moment to be the sp'pr' .

   Barrie  ; 
               2. Paul Then Wrote (to Barrie): who the fck told you that when we blink out of this reality we are in the sp' pr' . As i understand it , Seth said that when we blink out of this rea'y we are then in the negative univ'/field + that this is a part of the 3 field sys' that makes up the whole of this univ' sys' .

Barrie NOW Responds: Where do you come up with these things? Its great if you believe them, as you should, but where are they in the Seth material? They are not there. To say that your ideas are supported by the Seth material, I believe, is a total fabrication;  just not true. 


   Paul   ;   
               i come up with these things because of my experience + the fact that the 3 field sys' + the undiff' field (my void) IS in the Seth mat'.  The 3 field sys' is,           1.  phys' reality/ field
       2.  the dream field
       3.  the antimatter or neg' field

     These together form the univ'sys' in which we have our existence .
     I have given you the quotes on Seths undiff' field 4 or 5 times now (i bet you still hav'nt read it) .

     F2 is not the neg' or antimatter field + so is not the pulsation or blinking off that you spk of . F2 is something else entirely which i'm sure you do have a good knowledge of but not in this instance me old fruit .


   Barrie  ;   
                REMEMBER, as with you and everyone—when it comes to Seth quotes--I share my BELIEFS about what Seth has said. My interpreations are based on my BELIEFS as are yours and everyone—but I will gladly try to explain WHY I have those beleifs and where they come from.


   Paul  ;
             Paul   ; 
             You may want to interpret Seth's works Barrie + you may have good intentions based on your beliefs of what Seth has said but i am not interpreting Seths works , i am sticking to the same concepts that Seth has given but i have just presented them with a slightly different terminology + expanded upon the formless fields which i term F3 + which are the source of all the manifest fields + universes .
           Like my 1st void state + Seths  undiff' field , they are one and the same . And if you ever read the passages + quotes i have persistently given you about the undiff' field/area/levels Seth spks of , you wuold easly notice the direct similarities between my descrition of void as being inf' space internally/externally , formlesness + without any thuoghts or images being able to be percieved or manifested here whatsoever , more or less exactly as Seth describes it in his undiff' field .   But you have not been repspectful enough to have read these passages + so you have gotten yourself into a right pickle . You even said to me that Seth had never mentioned void ever , + the same about the undiff' field + now you've gone + done it with your confusion about the neg' univ' + F2 which are entirely differnt things .  I do forgive you Barrie as i would not keep coming back to hear you repeat your mistakes over + over again . I definately get a bit prickley when you refuse to read the quotes i have repeatedly given you + stand on your false belief that Seth never said any of these things when of course he obviously did .


   Barrie Comments:
                  We are in the "spacious present now", as Seth says. We are always in it. Our plane is F1. We don't consciously recognize when we are operating in the spacious present because we can only perceive F1 with our five senses...yet we ae also ALWAYS in F2 or the spacious present.


   Paul  ;   
             What i am talking about IS the con's recognition + immersion in the sp' pr' via what i call the void states of con's , for as Seth has said , before the creation of any univ' field or sys', con's had first  to create the void or dimension in which it will exist .  I understand what you are saying about us all being in the sp'pr' all of the time + i agree but this blinking off is NOT into the sp'pr' or F2 but the neg field .
           
             If you had ever bothered to read the Seth quotes i gave you then you would see that Seth says that to get full awareness of the sp'pr' as it exists in this univ' sys' of manifestation , one must 'step' outside of this univ' sys' which includes F2 + into the undiff' field which is my 1st void state . Seth quite clearly states that when one first encounters the undiff' field it is as though one is in an inf' empty area (both internally + externally , my quote) . No thoughts or images can possibly exist here which is why it is so frightening to most people . I will try + find quotes sometime soon as i've been rather busy lately .


   As i said , from my reading of Seth the blinking out is into the neg' or antimatter field (not into F2) , + that we spend as much 'time' nonexistent in the phys' field as we do manifest in it . And that the pulsations are to do with the creation of the atoms + antimatter , as pure energy comes into this univ' sys' .  Also , this 3 field sys' is enclosed by energy which does not allow any further additions (at this time) a sort of repellant energy which i think Seth may have termed identifying particles , i'm not exactly sure of Seths terms here but the principle is the same + similar to Seths mental enclosures .

            I think you have F2 + the neg' univ' mixed up somehow Barrie .  F2 is where we have our non phys' selves + existences + the neg' field is the offshoot from the dreaming field .

            All con's of whatever import has its existence in the sp'pr' but F2 is only a little closer to the sp'pr' + as Seth has said , one must go outside of this 3 field sys' to be able to have an exp' of the sp'pr' as it exists for us in this 3 fold univ' sys' .      One must go all the way back to ATI's initial void creation (from which all other voids come from) to have an exp' of the sp'pr' as it exists in all sys' of reality . 


   Barrie Comments: We are not always here, for we are always simultaneously elsewhere—we are in both because we blink in and out. And when we are "in" these other nonphysical places, we "form our new experiences & developments" because we are operating in the spacious present and make our telepathic agreements which occur outside of linear time.


   Paul  ;   Yes you've definately got this blinking in + out confused with F2 Barrie . Yes , we have existences in F2 simultaneously with our existence in F1 but that is simultaneous + not blinking off + on , there is a big difference here Barrie .

   
   Barrie  ;
              Seth says that we "dwell in places that know no space and no time." This is the spacious present—


   Paul  ;   No it's not Barrie , these are as i've said , simultaneous manifestations which all exist in the sp'pr' . But these places you talk of are NOT the sp'pr' they are simply portions of it .
                        You go on to say  ;
                                            and it is thru the action of blinking that we both dwell "there" and we seemingly simultaneously dwell "here" in F1.

                       Again Barrie this is your mistaken interpretation + absolutely nothing to do with the blinking off + on , you silly billy .


   Barrie  ;
              So to summarize, your point, Paul, as I understand it and correct me if I am mistaken, that we somehow need to return to the void in order to get to the spacious present,  is actually absurd, no offense, according to the Seth material, at least.



   Paul   ;
             oh most definately i will + am correcting you Barrie on several of Seth's concepts . You must go into the undiff' field (my 1st void state) Seth spoke of in order to completely immerse yourself eventually in the sp'pr' but only as it exists for this univ' sys' .     To experience the sp'pr' as it exists for all systems you must go to ATI's initial void state , + the dreaded nonbeing you cannot as yet fathom . This is done by 1st going into the undiff' field (1st void state) which IS formlesness + without any thoughts or images + from this level you must increase your concentration or go into a deeper or more intense intensity (as Seth puts it) to reach inf' con's + then on into a deeper multidimensional con's which further refines itself by further intensities or concentrations untill it achieves suspension + nonbeing (Buddhist cessation) . Nonbeing , being as close to ATI as one can get .  You will then 'reawaken' to the 1st + primal void state created by ATI + through further intensities/concentrations in this primal void then come into the sp'pr' as it exists for all univ' manifestations .

   The 1st void state is inf' formless space + Seth's 1st step into the undiff' field .
   The 2nd void state is way beyond your ken at the moment Barrie but ultimately it is inf' con's .

             Actually its quite absurd that your understanding of Seth on these topics is so partial + fragmentary  old bean , as you are supposed to be one of the head honcho's in the Seth community as i understand it . God only knows what the rest of them are like or what they put out as Seth's teachings . Perhaps they are jolly nice fellows as i believe you are Barrie but that is another thing apart from knowledge of Seths concepts esp' on these topics  .   Again i offer an open invitation in particular to the top level of the sethian community to come + debate these issues with me if they dare .

                                       
             Have fun with this won't you Barrie .

                 peace , paul

[Deb]

I've been overwhelmed with work and other things lately, but have still been finding time to keep track posts in this topic and others.

Thank you all for your contributions in this heady topic. And thank you all for expressing yourselves freely, but still being respectful of others (mostly). Barrie and Paul have obviously been enjoying sparring for years. I've been around the Internet for a while and I've seen a lot nasty things happen very quickly. So I'm especially appreciative of people who have differing opinions, beliefs, interpretations... and can still express themselves succinctly without breaking into a flat out brawl. That speaks volumes to the ilk of people who populate this forum.

Please keep in mind one of the only two things I ask of forum members:

In order to keep this as simple and friendly as possible,
all I ask is that you put to use what you hopefully learned in kindergarten:
be kind, courteous and respectful of others.

You all seem to manage to keep things civil (right on the edge).
Not coddled, just civil.
Very much appreciated.

[Deb]

As i have claimed on several occasions , that i think Seth did not get into the void states because of Janes early demise .

That's one thing I don't really understand: early demise.
(Yes I'm a nincompoop. Well, not really, I just haven't read all the books. Yet.)
But from what I have read, we choose our lives before we come here, choose our deaths and while we're generally not conscious of that while we're here and because of free will, things shift and change a bit. So do we or don't we choose our death before we even come into this existence? Is there such a thing as early demise? And if Seth could tell Jane and Rob some things about their incarnations, those deaths, probable lives... did he not know Jane was going to die when she did? Or maybe he did, and just kept things to himself? Or did she change her "mind" and opt out early?

So many questions, I do feel like a dunce. But I just have to keep asking.

[voidypaul]

    Hi Jon , excuse me but what the fck are you talking about .

            No you most definately don't want to butt ego's with me you just might get burnt .

    Jon you said to me  ;
                         You assume many things about others views for no particular reason other than ignorance


   Paul   ;   well that's a crock of .... me old freaky deaky .  Very sensitive are'nt you .  ignorance of what mate ?
               
              Why on earth would i want to respond to any of your suggestions esp' when they have nothing to do with the current topic ? 

              I already said that Wilber + all those old hippys opened the door to the new generation so to spk + i am grateful for that but as to their work , it is all mostly old hat + useful only to beginners in the field + even then most of it is v misleading .I mean , the stuff you said about wilber + the space kadets or whatever shyte he was into about space central or whatever it was . What a load of old blab + any mature person could easily see thru that .  I don't need to read his books , just what you said about him was laughable enough . Seth is the only material worth its salt . The rest are just pretenders + well meaning wannabe's .
               I would suggest you stick to the Seth mat' + be happy about it .

           Of course you don't understand jhana (or my void states) + most definately not Seth's undifferentiated field . But i just said that , as a simple statement , if you took it personally then i feel sorry for your being so oversensitive .

           If a person has a difference of opinion then i hope , as i do with Barrie that it can be settled but just because we get a little prickly with each other it does'nt mean it is disrespectful . Both Barrie + myself seem to think we know the Seth material + yet there are some glaring discrepancies + we wade into each other somewhat but i have never been personally abusive to him nor him to me as far as i'm concerned .
           I piss Barrie off sometimes + vice versa but we have the ultimate respect in not getting personal tho we throw a few jibes here + there but we stick at it + one fine day i'm sure we will more or less see eye to eye , i hope anyway .

           You said   ;
                         I would question your belief around needing to be banned or removed from online communities, it is self-sabotaging behavior

           Whatttttt , you have no idea why or what for i have had differences with the online Buddhist community so give it a break + quit the amateur psychology bluff .

           Don't read my posts if they upset you .

           Well if you say you are arrogant then i'd assume you know better than me but you have little understanding of the Seth mat' + even less of me so i take your comment with a pinch of salt + meaningless . OK

           What affirmation was that about religion i spoke of then ?

           your recommendations likewise i take with a pinch of salt . Wilber + jung are peanuts to me .

           If you want to chat about Patanjali then yep i'm ok with that but don't try + tell me what i should or should'nt read . OK

            Yes you are wrong + i most definately disagree .

            No i don't want to find people who are similar to me I just want to get the sethian community to sort themselves out + have thrown out a challenge to all the head honcho's to debate me on these topics i have raised + if any of them think they know Seth on these particular subjects that i am wrangling with Barrie about then let them come join the fun + throw a few blazing comments if they like but i am determined to get this straight with them + get rid of the missunderstandings that seem at this time to prevail . OK

            peace , paul

[Deb]

your recommendations likewise i take with a pinch of salt

Sorry for intruding, but I take everything with a salt lick.
A pinch, a grain, are never enough to get through life.

[voidypaul]

   Hi Deb , hope you + your loved ones are in good health + happy .

                 Rah , rah , well said Deb , love the way you put it .

                             No you are not a dunce we all have difficulties in one field or another .  I am probably a dunce in your favoured field but i'd have a go if i had to + try not to feel embarassed about my mistakes . 

                             I hope we do get to meet up when you come over I think you are a lively + warm hearted personality + i would go out of my way to make you feel comfortable with me . I will not even mention void or all of that old guff + we can have a chat about what funny lives we all lead .


                             When we are born into this life we have a sort of programme to follow which includes our 'death' but as Seth says , it is all about probabilities + at any point we can change what path we take . No one is meant to die for any reason .We all die when the time is right for us even if that includes a bit of pain + misery . I am fairly certain that even Seth thuoght Jane woud be around for a while longer as he had said that he had plans for this + that in their work together + i'm sure many more books . My personal opinion (as it all is) is that Jane struggled with some inhibiting beliefs about religion + spirituality . Even Seth was most careful not to introduce some topics to Jane (like reincarnation) untill he thought she was quite ready + as far as iam concerned she did the whole world a great service in going as far as she did with Seth .  But i think some of  her old beliefs may have been more deeply embedded than even Seth had known (+ he did tippy toe around her sometimes tho sometimes i think he was a bit of a taskmaster) + ultimately her conflicting beliefs got the better of her, bless her . But they are all together now + I'm sure she has resolved her past difficulties tho i am also sure that she would have been kicking herself (just a little)
for letting go when she did .     This is just my opinion .


                  Early demise . I have just recently had a lifelong friend have their only child die of cancer  (she was only 14) . I had not seen my friend for many yrs + we only occasoinally kept in touch but always stayed strong in our love + respect for each other . She has allways been afraid of death + dying + rang me in a great distress aboout her daughters illness which went on for several yrs.  So eventually she asked me to come + help out + talk to them all about my spirituality .  When i got there the girl had just had a new wig made (dark red) + seemed to be getting stronger + was full of beans when i saw her . I last met her when she was 5 + we had a great laugh about it but most impotantly we had a couple of hours chat about the immortal + eternal soul + got along like a house on fire . The next morning she passed over , confident that she knew it was a new life + not some miserable end . Even her mother + father felt that it was an unusual coincidence that she left on the day i arrived but it was not , she was an old soul + did not want to stay around + start a new family of her own with all of the ties + karma that this entails (same reason i never got married or had children) + left lighthearted + on the up .  I am one of those souls that helps others make the transition (in my dreaming self + not overtly as i am in fact a v private + self contained personality) but it is what i do + so do many others wether they know it or not .

           She is happy + glorious where she is now + we knew each other in past lives + my being with her was a promise kept from many lives ago when she helped me in my time of need ....

           We are all immortal + eternal + we never really die .

              peace , love , paul

[Deb]

I hope we do get to meet up when you come over

That seems do-able at this point, unless a different portion of my trip hijacks me. And if we do get the opportunity to meet, please do not censure the void or yourself in any way. I am here to learn.

Interesting and sad story about your friend's daughter. I have to always wonder what's/whose lesson is in that. It seems so wasteful to me. I've dealt with cancer myself, learning how and why I brought it upon myself. At the time I was sure I was learning that we either cannot control anything or we completely make our own reality and need to learn how to use that knowledge. Seth has helped clarify a lot of things for me.

[Sena]

Paul,
You wrote:

My personal opinion (as it all is) is that Jane struggled with some inhibiting beliefs about religion + spirituality .

I agree with you. Even one year in a Roman Catholic orphanage would have meant total immersion brain-washing, and it could take more than one lifetime to get over the effects.

[voidypaul]

   Hi folks , old loonytunes is back.


           There seem to be a few posts missing here ? One from Barrie + also from John + a reply to them both from me , + some from Deb + Beth .


           So where do i start. I feel it must be said again that no one should be reinterpreting the Seth mat' according to their own beliefs as Barrie puts it nor as John puts it
         ''It is an open ended system that encourages "users" to adapt it to their own uses, and expand upon it however they see fit.''


          When one is at home one may well do this but when one comes on to a Seth site then one must, to one's best ability be as accurate as can be according to the Seth mat' itself . Or what is the use of a Seth site ?


          If you would like a helping hand Deb then i  offer my services + will use Seth quotes to back up what is being said .


          for instance in my discussions with Barrie he has said that ,


       '' Paul said ; Seth did not mention much about the void because he has not been there , he got all of his information from Seth 2 who is , has + always will be a formless being . Seth himself did not origionate the Seth material .

Barrie NOW Responds: This is NOT TRUE AT ALL. Where did you get this? This is nonsense. I'd love to see how or what your beliefs interpreted here.


     You are doing the same thing, now, Paul. But throwing in that Seth2 nonsense is amazingly wrong as well.


    Perhaps, Paul, your beliefs about Seth said, are just that. Your beliefs. You also seem to believe that your beliefs are facts...and if someone disagrees with you...well...they are just wrong. Another common reaction of some people when discussing things they try to insist is found in the Seth material one way or another ''


             
      So Barrie most definately thinks that i am talking nonsense , but ,,,
        From Seth ;
                   Vol 8 ,  sess 407 , pg 268


                                       Seth 2 is spk'g
         
         
       '' While i was the source of the mat' , Seth as you think of him was at times a silent partner ................. etc''


        Seth 2 goes on to say


      '' I who am the source , sent a portion of myself , an independent portion , to you.................etc ''
           
         + from sess'  409 , pg 276


                                      Seth himself is spk'g


     ''my big brother has come ''            +
     ''...... I have told you i am a teacher , + i have let the principal in the door.''




     It is quite clear from these quotes that Seth is NOT the source of the Seth mat' .




    ''Barrie Responds: Then please enlighten me, where does Seth say that he gets all his information from Seth2? And, also, Seth2 does exist outside of our universal system—as does Seth and all of us.''


      So Barrie my friend , i hope we can put this particular topic to rest .


           
     Barrie also made the point ,


    '' Paul Then Wrote (to Barrie): who the fck told you that when we blink out of this reality we are in the sp' pr' . As i understand it , Seth said that when we blink out of this rea'y we are then in the negative univ'/field + that this is a part of the 3 field sys' that makes up the whole of this univ' sys' .


Barrie NOW Responds: Where do you come up with these things? Its great if you believe them, as you should, but where are they in the Seth material? They are not there. To say that your ideas are supported by the Seth material, I believe, is a total fabrication;  just not true. ''  + also Barrie said


    ''Over and over again each instant, we "blink" out of F1 and focus in the spacious present of F2 and "return" to or refocus on F1. This blinking never stops.''


       Here we go then barrie ,


       Vol 2 ,  sess' 61 , pg 151


      ''...... the fact is , mat' on your field is composed of constant energy pulsations ; + while to you the appearance is one of permanence to a fair degree ..............etc
      '' therefore there is what i call the neg' interval , when one pulsation has vanished from your plane + another is about to take its place .........etc


      '' You do not percieve the neg' interval ''


      '' Our neg' interevals do indeed have something to do with antimatter , i prefer to call it neg' matter .''


         + vol 3 , sess 109 , pg 156


      '' Both the dream univ' + the univ' of neg' mat' then are by-products of the phys' univ' , .........etc ''


      ''........in this manner your phys' univ' , dream univ' + univ' of neg' mat' have come together , while retaining their boundaries as a more or less closed sys' .''


      So can we agree on this also Barrie ?


      I must also point out a mistake on my part , where i said


     '' this is a part of the 3 field sys' that makes up the whole of this univ' sys'.''


       but these 3 fields are simply a part of what Seth calls a closed sys' + not as i said , that makes up of the whole of this univ' sys' . The 3 field sys' is only a part of the univ' sys' .


       So in effect Barrie has also helped me to correct myself , ta mate .




      What i feel is most important is that the Seth material as it is, is not (even when i make a mistake) distorted nor reinterpreted , otherwise the true meaning of the mat' will be lost + the Seth sites may unintentionally be the cause of this . So come on all you Seth afficianados lets get it on + get it straight + not let the mat' fall into disrepute nor fail to convey the true meaning to those who have come here to learn .


         peace . paul

[voidypaul]

   Hi Sena , hope you are well.
           Just to reply to your comment ,
     
           ''I agree with you. Even one year in a Roman Catholic orphanage would have meant total immersion brain-washing, and it could take more than one lifetime to get over the effects.''




   Paul ;    Yes mate , some of the Catholic priests etc have a lot to answer for. The abuse of children on both phys' + mental levels is disgusting + equally appalling are the cover-ups that have gone on . So many of them have very difficult karma to live out one day .       Even Seth had his karma as Frank Watts (to learn humility) , so even the great + respected Seth had his pitfalls + karma to make up but what i find most beautiful about Seths last reincarnation as Frank is, that  once it was done Seth came back to us all a reinvigorated +  masterful teacher . So he points out to us all that not even the neg' karma can harm us if we work it out + we can all go on to greater things.


         Regards , paul

[BethAnne]

My sympathy for you Paul in your loss.

[voidypaul]

   Hey Deb , nice to see things back up + running , hope you are keeping well.


            If you can make a tea or coffee with me when you come over then so you will,
if not , thats life .
            I also have a few restrictions to do with my health as i am lets say semi disabled in that i have crumbling bones in my lower spine + at times this leads to a  paralysis from my hips down + i cannot walk . I use morphine patches to ease the pain so its not that bad. I also have what is called severe apneoa so quite regularly i only sleep 2-3 hrs a night (if at all) + this messes me mind up a bit .  Thats life , + a few little challenges to overcome thats all + i will fix it one day .
            I sincerely hope that the cancer you have suffered is or is being overcome, you certainly seem full of life + my best wishes go out to you in this respect.
            We all go in our own good time however hard or easy it comes .


          peace , paul

[voidypaul]

     Thank you Beth , you're so kind .
                                       The young girl is an angel in heaven so to spk + i look forward to meeting up with her one fine day .
           I love the flowers you posted .

[voidypaul]

     I see that you are in the chat section Beth , is there some particular way to use this function , i don't know as i'm an online dummy .

[BethAnne]

 
I am a Tech-NO-Moron. 

I hired the young Mr. Ramsey next door to set up my new computer.  I'll ask him how to Chat. 

[voidypaul]

   Ok ta , it will be interesting for me to see how it works


   ahhh someone's calling , got to go


         Peace , paul

[Deb]

I see that you are in the chat section Beth , is there some particular way to use this function , i don't know as i'm an online dummy .

I hired the young Mr. Ramsey next door to set up my new computer.  I'll ask him how to Chat.

It's really easy, the same as the one on Facebook if you've ever used that. There's the Chat Bar in the bottom right corner of your screen. If someone else is logged into the forum, it will say Chat(1) or  Chat(2) or how many others you can chat with. Click on the bar and it will open, with a list of names of who is available. Click on someone's name and a second little window will open on the left of the first window. Click in the bottom bar of the new window and type something. Hit your Enter key and it will send your message to the other person. A chime will sound every time a new message is sent, if the computers have sound/speakers. If you're done chatting, you can close the box by clicking on the X. Screen capture is attached.

Ask me any questions.

[BethAnne]

Cool.  I figured it would be easy.

So you ever arrange meeting times for chats?  I'd be willing to be up early or late some weekend day.

[Deb]

So you ever arrange meeting times for chats?

As far as I know, no one has used Chat. But it's private, between two people at a time, and the text is deleted in the database after a day. So since it's private, I would never know if people are using it.

But no, I'ver never arranged a meeting time. At one point I had more of a chatroom on the forum, where more than one person could join in. But it was never used so I removed it.

Right now I'm having a few minor technical problems with the forum but will hopefully get that fixed pretty soon, and would consider reinstalling the Chat Room if anyone is interested. Could be a party!

[Deb]

Hey there Paul, I don't have much time to catch up on the forum tonight, but a couple of things from you caught my eye so here I am just for a bit.

There seem to be a few posts missing here ? One from Barrie + also from John + a reply to them both from me , + some from Deb + Beth .

There shouldn't be anything missing, I don't delete or edit other peoples' posts and I checked the Recycle Bin, nothing new in there. I do tend to edit my own posts, because sometimes I'm too honest.

I'll teach you a little trick that a friend taught me a while ago: If you can't find a post you think someone made, click on Members (across the top of the boards) and then the person's nickname. It will bring up their profile. Then, in the left column under Summary, click on Show Posts and it will show you all the posts that person has made, the most recent at the top, and you can skim through them. You can even do this with your own profile.

Also, please see my instructions to Beth about using Chat (in response to both of your questions) here:

It's really easy, the same as the one on Facebook if you've ever used that.

If you can make a tea or coffee with me when you come over then so you will,
if not , thats life .

The plan at this point is I'll have 6/18 - 6/20 in London before I head home. The only thing I may schedule is a boat trip up the Thames to Greenwich, so tea is a possibility. I'm very sorry about your physical challenges. The back problem sounds especially nasty to live with, but I have a friend who has apnea and that's no bowl of cherries either. I'll have internet on most of my trip, will be popping in and out of the forum and will certainly have email capabilities. So closer to those dates we can touch base. You can at some point PM your address, so I can figure out if I can figure out transportation. It would be a great pleasure to meet another Sethie and I'm sure we won't run out of things to talk about.

My health is perfectly fine at this point. I can say honestly MUCH better than it was 10+ years ago. The challenge I had was in 2005, I never felt threatened by it. Just knew there were certain things I'd have to do, all with finite time, and would be done with it. I know (I think) what I did wrong and learned my lesson immediately. But it was a very obvious case of illness as a metaphor. And I still wonder, if I'd found Seth at that time, if I'd have had the courage to turn my back on the dictates of modern medicine and instead heal myself.

[voidypaul]

     Hi Deb,
          thanks for your kind thoughts on my physical challenges . Its not so bad really, i actually get about fairly well on a good day + in fact  my consultant told me that riding a bike would be helpful + also a little swimming (+ fortunately for me these have always been some of my favourite things) as they take the weight off my spine + if i go easy then i keep in reasonably good shape . Walking can be difficult as it sends shockwaves up my spine + this can shake the vertebrae out of alignment which then sqeezes my spinal canal + that is when things get a little bit difficult . But i do pretty well on one or two crutches when i have to so if you would like to meet in london (i live in the suburbs) then that is not a problem for me esp' if i have rested the day or two before. Whatever is convenient for you.       The sleep problem is what it is + i tend to think it pushes me more in the direction of my meditations etc as the medication they gave me (venlofaxin) made me feel worse, they offered me a cpap machine but i'm not too sure about that either + have left that for a later date if things get worse but for now i feel i have it fairly well under control. And too much of the morphine just isn't my thing .
               I totally agree with you about not having to rely on medical intervention if it can be helped + intend to heal myself of these challenges i have set up for myself, I even believe i can grow new bone structure to replace the damaged vertebrae, so i have high hopes for my future. Congratulations on having sorted yourself out from the dreaded big C you have my admiration for the obvious work , honesty + courage it must have taken .
               I have no problem with giving you my address + as you are admin on this site  i presume you have access to my email + if you would like to contact me that way then i would feel more comfortable than  making it public.
               I'm sure if we do get to meet it will be a pleasant + interesting exchange + as you say it is always nice to meet like minded people. I am as you might have guessed by now quite well steeped in the Seth material + i suppose that is because of my void + other similar oob experiences which i found Seth to be the only one who could come close to describing those states of mind tho there are in some mystical schools very similar expressions + concepts . You would always be safe with  me, apart from my nigglyness + irritability about the way some folks put forth Seths concepts not much really bothers me.
Well actually some of the super rich, their barsterd companies + their political lakkys do get my goat up from time to time but i find this to be a natural reaction to the fact that we could have peace + prosperity for all in this world if only they would stop interfering.
On that note i sincerly hope that you get the good old Bern' for president although in some ways i do admire Trumpys going against the establishment but he is also v much a part of the problem in my limited viewpoint + i think Hillary is just too tarnished. But we dont have much better over here either. Stupid 2 party politics........
               Anyway i hope all goes well for you + your loved ones.
                    peace , paul

[Deb]

Whatever is convenient for you. 

This trip, for me, is not about convenience but about stepping WAAAYYY outside my comfort zone. By the time I make it back to London, a mere bus ride outside of London will be a pleasant way to visit new surroundings. I may be a late bloomer in life, but I'm still a bloomer.

Congratulations on having sorted yourself out from the dreaded big C

Little c for me.
Thank you but I can't take much credit for my recovery. Honestly, to me my dis-ease was a reaction to my only child's diagnosis of a chronic illness and my wanting to take it away from him. A mother's sincere but knee-jerk reaction. And compared to my horror at his diagnosis, my dis-ease was of minimal consequence once I recognized it for what it was. I've since been told that my desire to take away his burden would be robbing him of the challenge he chose for his own life (who am I to deny him of his own choice?), which has helped me cope.

[BethAnne]

Honestly, to me my dis-ease was a reaction to my only child's diagnosis of a chronic illness and my wanting to take it away from him.

I found this very touching and wise.
This is probably  my fault as a mother also...  Actually, it's an issue I'm dealing with a friend right now. 
I hope your son is well now.


stepping WAAAYYY outside my comfort zone.

How so?  From your posts I would not have guessed.  Do you push on your limits in general?

[Deb]

stepping WAAAYYY outside my comfort zone.

How so?  From your posts I would not have guessed.  Do you push on your limits in general?

I guess some people would say I do, but it only appears that way to others because my limits are different than what others consider "standard." I don't feel like I've pushed my limits much in the past, because the life I live is my normal. I need to prove this to myself: "Man's greatest illusion is that he has limitations." Robert Monroe

But being an empty nester has set off something in me this past year that I can't explain. A drive to really come into myself in ways I've never felt before. My upcoming trip is the basket I'm putting all my eggs into. There's more to it than I've let on (better saved for more confidential conversation) and there will be some challenges I've not faced before. I've never before traveled outside the country alone. I have had some discouraging and judgmental input and raised eyebrows from acquaintances with very traditional/conservative ideas of the way women should behave, so have been keeping my mouth shut. But then there's this from an astrologer (last year she kept telling me there is a lot of travel, language and sorting out my beliefs in my near future--that was before I dreamed up this trip). More recently:

"May I point something out? I have a feeling that you have some intuition about this trip. I have a feeling that you know that something's coming with this trip, more than just being on this trip. I think there's something waiting for you there. And so just as an astrologer, I'm not telling you what to do, ok, but I just want to point out again, ok? Look at this, Venus in Saturn, what you truly believe about love, trining Uranus and Aries in 7, holy shit, and then Mars coming up on Scorpio and Juno in the 2nd, I mean I have like pins and needles all over talking about that. And that Mars in Juno and Scorpio, trining Neptune and Pisces, that's like magic, it's got magic poured on it, ok? It has magic poured on it Deb. And so let me just back you up about something, ok? Stay open. This is not just about getting the airline ticket booked, I mean you can't imagine what's going to happen when you get there. I'm telling you. There's no way you could imagine it. There's no way."

Sounds like my own version of Eat, Pray, Love, huh?

[Deb]

@voidypaul I'm sorry this (your) topic keeps getting hijacked.
If you want it kept to posts that are more on-track with the subject, let me know and I can split all the other posts off into a new topic. I thought the exchanges between you and @barrie were brilliant. I hope they continue.

[voidypaul]

  Hi Deb ,
Hi DEb,

  i  like + admire you more + more as i read your posts . Have faith in yourself girl , without a doubt in my mind you are a 'good un'  . . You show a refreshing honesty + courage which i deeply respect  + it makes me hope all the more that we will be able to meet up so that some of that goodness might rub off on me (greedy little toad). You also show a faith in yourself + in life that is refreshing to someone a little stuck in the mud like me .
               Don't worry about the posts going somewhat astray , tho i appreciate your concern . It seems like Barrie has bailed out for the time being + i'm not sure if there is anyone else who can keep pace with me on these particular topics. I hope he does not feel upset that i have pointed out to him some of his poss' straying or misinterpretation of some of Seths concepts for as i said in my post to him , he also helped point out a mistake on my part (+ on other occasions) which has helped me refine my own understanding + for me that is one of the areas where we can help each other in good measure. So hopefully he will return + we can lock horns again , as i think we are both a bit feisty + opinionated + take it to the edge with each other but i feel it does us both good to get it out + put it under the spotlight .
               Perhaps i may have to try some other sites so i can get stuck in to my pet obsession  so to spk but i like it here + i like you little miss moderator (oops admin) + i will stick at it for the while .
I sincerly hope you find something special over here + i'm sure your little soothsayer is correct in encouraging you to go for it .   
               I live quite close to a park (Crystal Palace) so it might be nice to meet up in the cafe there . I say a park but its probably more like a big garden where you come from .
               Hi to Beth , hope all is well for you too my dear .
               Ohhhhhh what will i do with my void now ...............


               peace , paul

[LenKop]

Hi all,

Back on topic....

Help me understand this right, Paul. This 'state' you have brought up is beyond frameworks, beyond creativity, beyond consciousness, beyond beyond....(again, words become difficult, but we need them atm, so bear with me). You are seeking the absolute Source. Am I correct?

In the other thread you started (before everyone took over... ), you answered my question regarding the point of this "state" as being far preferable to this reality, and you mentioned hopefully this is your last incarnation here. It sounds like over 'there' is better than over 'here'.

And it might just be so.

My question is more focused the other way around. What's the point of all this then?

The Source has differentiated itself. It has created consciousness, voids, frameworks, time and space, multi dimensional probabilities. It has created. From the planets to every speck of sand on the shore. The one thing that is quite obvious, is that creativity is abundant, never ending and multi dimensional. It's hard to argue against, whether you're into Seth or are a pure materialist, that some kind of creativity is happening, at one level or another.

So, why would this absolute Source create all this (and more), just for us to say "over 'there' is better than 'here', so let's just go home because this life isn't so great"?

LK

[BethAnne]

I came across this video this weekend by Erin Green Rothschild and how her family carries a certain DNA "knowledge and privilege".  I don't know what I think
about what she is saying, tho I've seen so much crazy "stuff" anything is possible.
Half way through, however, she talks about Reality being a box inside a box and that there are many of these structures that hold alternate realities that one is able to jump from one to the other......if you know how. 
Paul, does this relate to what you are experiencing?

[voidypaul]

  Hi LenKop  + BethAnne ,
                                           great question LenKop , i will be back soon with a considered + i hope clear reply .


        Love the vids you dig up Beth , hav'nt seen it yet but i must say that the rothschilds are not my fav' people + i have a bone or 2 to pick with them one day .

[voidypaul]

   Hi BethAnne,


Wow she makes some grand claims , sinclairs the holders of the Christ bloodline my big fat ass. I don't dispute that the roth's are the current rulers of the world but it won't be too long b4 they are knocked off their high + lofty perch . Freakin reptilianss my big bad hairys , i'll give them freakin reptilian , i have them for breakfast (as guests actually).  Under contract with God , fck me she certainly knows how to spread the bull thick + fast , if she or they beieves what she says, they are in the deepest dire straights i could poss' imagine .
The reptilians are not (the real rep's) the bunch of ass fckr's she makes them out to be + if she or they believe this bull then i pity them their karma , as no one or thing or being of any import can escape the bonds of karma .
         Wow this makes my blood boil.
           She is right about the humble , they do + will inherit the earth , they deserve it . I'm v happy for her that she wants no part of the foolishness she spks of , she will find her freedom . That world that destroyed itself , they are our ancesters + we are here to make it right .  We are more than dual selves we are mulitidimensional but i wholeheartedly agree that we need to step outside of our ego selves to begin to set our true selves free + gain our true inheritance as ONE , the true nonduality of self .
          I like a lot of what she goes on to say But, the Jesus bloodline is a crock, she does'nt know of what she spks, the Jesus Entity is here for love + peace + the equality of ALL. God is encoded into everything we are , wether we access it or not is another thing but that is why the Christ is back again , to show us the way. I'm glad her son had the experience he had , he may be a great help to this world . She is right about service , we are all in service to ATI + we must reflect that in as much of what we do as we can.
         Claims to be ark angels eh, that will be seen to be believed , not quite sure what she's saying about his clones , sounds dangerous to me , no clone is a good thing + in my estimation is an impossibility , there are no clones that is an impossibility no 2 things are the same even if they seem to be .
          i agree that we need to work on contact with our inner selves + that we are all immortal but no one of any import would want to have an immortal body what a cock up that would be + so inhibiting to the true inner self.
          Soul cathchers my ass . NO ONE can catch or possess a soul or inner self they are deluded if they think so. Wrong again that this is a computer programme , we all create our own reality, our own space time continuum + NO ONE can take that away from us or can force us to concede it . More crap about the so called tesseract , we are a part of the 5th dimension Seth spks of + that is upheld by much more begningn + incredibly more powerful entitys than she or they seem to be aware of . Yes there is a divine geometry but full of numbers , that is far too weak a brew of reality if only she knew. I like them to see if they could see my bloody numbers they'd get a freakin surprise.  Fck off leaches + suckers what bull, they just see what they want to see. Obviously they've watched too many movies.
     It's not that i deny her her reality but it is a bit of a paranoid + poor one but i believe she is trying to do some good in the world so she may be enlightened one day as to the reality of our situation which is as Seth has said WE CREATE OUR OWN REALITY.
     Honour your darkness , wow they're wierd .What sort of reality are these people making for themselves but many + perilous steps to take . But ohhh we need the 3rd density or we can't move on , they have gotten themselves i a quandry. too much matrix too much silly billy darkness + devils + delusions . As Seth says you get what you concentrate on . We all have some shit to work thru + sometimes it can seriously sidetrack us but to create such perilous delusions is going to be hard work for them + this is just so unecessary.
      Its no wonder she gets scrambled as she said + loses herself , anyone would if they cut out so many dangerous obstacles + perilous steps to overcome .
      These so called super soldiers had better get their shit in order + no one can have their soul taken out of their bodies + put into a clone , they have been hypnotised .
      Then she says that our grearest enimies are our own souls , she is indeed a poor lost soul if she believes that .
      Sorry Beth but i can't take much more of these poor shoody delusions but if there are portions of it that you would like to ask of me then ask + i will do my best to straighten out the wrinkled old soul stuff they make of the true inner self .


     Sorry LenKop i usually like to deal with 1st post 1st but when i started watching this tripe it got my goat up + i had to pour forth my disbelief . But be sure i am working on the real meat on the bone which your honest + deep questions bring up + will post you soon .
           peace , paul

[BethAnne]

Thank you Paul for responding.

So, I do have some questions but just this for now.

Merovingians.  Opinion??  Do you believe there is any credence to the Reptilian theory?  Does the Tesseract have a relationship to what you've experienced?
Do you have an opinion on going from the 7th Octave to the 8th as reality?
Your opinion of the Rothschilds?
Do you understand what the Four Corners is referring other than her explaination?

Thanks,
Beth

PS.  I go through as much information as my brain can hold and look for patterns before I believe.  :-)

tesseract is the four-dimensional analog of the cube; the tesseract is to the cube as the cube is to the square. Just as the surface of the cube consists of six square faces, the hypersurface of the tesseract consists of eight cubical cells.  Wikipedia

[voidypaul]

   Hi LenKop, you said,


Hi all,


Back on topic....


Help me understand this right, Paul. This 'state' you have brought up is beyond frameworks, beyond creativity, beyond consciousness, beyond beyond....(again, words become difficult, but we need them atm, so bear with me). You are seeking the absolute Source. Am I correct?


Paul ;
   Yes LenKop , you are absolutely correct. But it is not beyond either creativity nor con's (well perhaps momentarily). It is the source of both con's + creativity .  For all of us there is indeed an absolute source + of course it is ATI , who is the Source + Creation (creativity) of ALL.
   If you  can imagine what Seth has said about the 'initial' creation of the inf' manifest universes , that the 1st creation was the unendurable mass that Seth mentioned which in my parlance is the 1st Divine void state , then that is what i have been into , this 1st void state , + 'at its deepest level' or greatest intensity as Seth would put it, is the nonbeing that both Seth + i spk of . It would seem to be a contradiction to say that in nonbeing one would come to know of ones creation out of the Divine Mind + Subjectivity of ATI but it is a kind of a final test or trail of the self , to let go of all that it is, was or could be + submit to the the deepest darkest test of the soul or self .   
  All of creation , b4 it was objectively created, was put into a suspended state in which all poss' or prob' of con's were suspended + Seth has  descrbed this correctly as nonbeing . This state is to you + me + all or any part or portion of reality , nonbeing . We were put into a state of no poss' or prob' of our con's because ATI was in a sense protecting His own creations from the unbelievable agony of His searching , + this agonising would have put any part of His own creation into a situation or state which would have been absolutely unbearable + ultimately destructive to it, so He protected us from this by putting us all into nonbeing or suspension + it was from this state that ATI , when He had found the means , released us as individual con's units into the 1st viod state (or unendurable mass) which He had already seeded with all of the indivdual poss + prob' of con's which we then inherited + used to seed all our generations + univ's of being .
  This state of nonbeing is prior to the creation of any manifest reality so yes it is 'beyond' all frameworks or universal manifestations as these come after so to spk .
   And yes it is as far as i can tell the absolute source as far as any created being is concerned .
   One is , or the self is then 'shown' (just after the nonbeing state) its own creation as an individual consciousness unit, which were the 1st con's let loose from the Divine Mind + Subjectivity of ATI .Which Seth also describes in the 1st vol of the unknown reality (these initial con's units).
   In nonbeing is also ATI's gift of the understanding of His own Creation or Source.
. If a created being can come closer than this to ATI i do not know but for me it is the ultimate .
   To get into this state of nonbeing one must pass thru many states (or intensities as Seth puts it) of nonmanifest (+ non thought) being which Seth describes in his undifferentiated field or level, no thoughts no manifestations but an absolute intense concentration of con's or being . If you can remember what Seth has said about an indiv' con's unit building up within itself an intense + almost unendurable desire to be , then this would sort of describe this nonmanifest nonthought state of being before it becomes manifest in any way.


     And conversely it passes 'back' thru these states from the manifest systems to get to its source + nonbeing + ATI b4 its manifestation into objectivity, for of course ATI was Himself nonmanifest to begin with.
     
    I hope this is intelligible to you LenKop, it is v difficult to describe or put into words but i hope that Seths terms will help as i believe i have been faithful to his conceptualising of these things .




  LenKop ;






In the other thread you started (before everyone took over... ), you answered my question regarding the point of this "state" as being far preferable to this reality, and you mentioned hopefully this is your last incarnation here. It sounds like over 'there' is better than over 'here'.


And it might just be so.


  Paul ;
         As far as i am concerned + for the reasons i have just stated , yes it is my preferred state of being , but i would'nt say that it is better than here , it is just immeasurably more + yes con's + emotion is so unbelievably enhanced that it cannot be described adequately.


  LenKop ;


My question is more focused the other way around. What's the point of all this then?


The Source has differentiated itself. It has created consciousness, voids, frameworks, time and space, multi dimensional probabilities. It has created. From the planets to every speck of sand on the shore. The one thing that is quite obvious, is that creativity is abundant, never ending and multi dimensional. It's hard to argue against, whether you're into Seth or are a pure materialist, that some kind of creativity is happening, at one level or another.


So, why would this absolute Source create all this (and more), just for us to say "over 'there' is better than 'here', so let's just go home because this life isn't so great"?


   Paul ;


          No thats not the point of it LenKop , for as i have said that when one 'returns' from the nonbeing state etc, then the self or con's unit as it comes back into the 1st Divine Void State, then one has a moment of the simultanaeity of all being or the moment point of creation or the spacious present as it exists in all universal fields of creation + for all beings . To be as ONE in the Real , total nonduality , as one with ATI , just for a moment  is infinite orgasms + ecstasy beyond compare, eternally + indelibley etched into one's soul or being + i can never forget it (i have tried believe me).

Thats a part of the reason why . its not about seperation or nothingness (although that does indeed come into it) nor that a soul or self should go there because over here its not so good , its about ATI + my love + eternal gratitude + service to this Divine Being for allowing me this experience  + wanting to go home so to spk , to be as One with ATI again , + for me , the true homestead.


  Oh yes , thanks for getting us back on topic LenKop


peace , paul

[voidypaul]

   Hi Beth,


the Merovingians,  haha thats a good story, as that is all it is . It was created to help keep the faith in Christ when it was ailing + in this sense has been of good service to the cause. But Christ did not have any children , he was no fool + would not have wanted to be bound to the earthly sphere by such a phys' connection + left to go on to greater things + not be tied to this plane in any way.
   Seth also rightly says that the genetic codes are created by the soul that is seeking reincarnation + NOT by any such thing passed on from parent to child. As he has said, the children we have are not really our creations but just templates to kickstart the process, which the incarnating personality then takes over + makes his/her own + forms the body around their own genetic knowledge + heritage. Also Seth said that the phys' material is not the same from one moment to the next when we are recreated as in the pulsations he has described + that these recreations are entirely distinct + different from one moment to the next. So it is not possible for any past genetic heritage to be passed on from either mother or father unless of course the new personality chooses from its own karma to display such tendencies.
    So the merovingian tale is just that , a fairy story made up by certain powerful families to up the stakes in their favour , that is all .
    The Christ entity chooses its own time + place , preferably far removed from any ruling dynasties, or it would be at the mercy of some phys' condition + such is NOT the case . The children we have are simply friends or loves from past lives + have nothing to do with genetics being passed from one generation to the next. Although it is true that some families choose to be incarnated together over several generations it is also true that in between time they will have other incarnations in other countries + of different stock so there is always new input into the genetic stream so to spk. There is no such a thing as a pure genetic race or family or anything of the sort.
     Hope that answers your question.

  Beth ;
           Do you believe there is any credence to the Reptilian theory?


  Paul ;   Depends which theory you're talking about . The rep's were on this earth long before humankind that is true . But if you think that they are here again to take over , that is just a load of rubbish. I have had quite intimate contact with one + they are much more advanced than we are which implies that they have developed morally + ethically also which of course means that they know exactly what an interference or transgression is into another race's karmic field, + are obviously aware that it would be most foolish of any one of them to screw themselves karmically if they did . They are'nt stupid you know , perhaps there may be one or two who like to play silly buggers but they cannot come into a human body nor conceal themselves as such unless they are expressly invited to do so + even then they are most cautious as was my contact when we made our aquaintance. They are generally a peaceful + progressive race + have much better things to do than play with childlike beings such as we are to them. I v much like my rep' but we rarely have any contact as they do NOT like to interfere. If some fools like to think that the reps are trying to fck us then they are sadly deluded.They are just like the other alien races that have lived here + still have an interest in how it goes on the old planet + would like to help but are constrained by interspecies formalities etc which cannot be overlooked . If my rep' thought there were others that messed around down here she would blow a fuse + definately kick some ass.
     I hope that covers that topic for you as far as i am concerned . NO one . no species or race can escape karma + they all tread lightly so to spk.


  Beth ;
         Does the Tesseract have a relationship to what you've experienced?


   Paul ;
          Not really Beth , Seths 5th dimension is much much more progressive + has more to do with what i am into .


   Beth ;
          Do you have an opinion on going from the 7th Octave to the 8th as reality?


   Paul ;
          One goes where one's frequencies takes one + one will transcend all octaves if one will have the faith not even necessarily the knowledge as such .


   Beth ;
          Your opinion of the Rothschilds?


  Paul  ; the manipulative roths are a bunch of asses , they do not understand even their own karma till they are born into slavery + servitude again .


   Beth ;
         Do you understand what the Four Corners is referring other than her explaination?


   paul ;
          Nope , not even really interested , one can overcome all obstacles if one wills it .


    Beth ;
             I go through as much information as my brain can hold and look for patterns before I believe.  :-)


   Paul ;
          Good , follow your own path Beth , it is always the best .


   Hope this has been somewhat helpful Beth .


   peace , paul

[Sena]

I have had quite intimate contact with one + they are much more advanced than we are which implies that they have developed morally + ethically also which of course means that they know exactly what an interference or transgression is into another race's karmic field, + are obviously aware that it would be most foolish of any one of them to screw themselves karmically if they did . They are'nt stupid you know , perhaps there may be one or two who like to play silly buggers but they cannot come into a human body nor conceal themselves as such unless they are expressly invited to do so + even then they are most cautious as was my contact when we made our aquaintance. They are generally a peaceful + progressive race + have much better things to do than play with childlike beings such as we are to them. I v much like my rep' but we rarely have any contact as they do NOT like to interfere. If some fools like to think that the reps are trying to fck us then they are sadly deluded.They are just like the other alien races that have lived here + still have an interest in how it goes on the old planet + would like to help but are constrained by interspecies formalities etc which cannot be overlooked . If my rep' thought there were others that messed around down here she would blow a fuse + definately kick some ass.

Paul, I find your ideas on reptiles fascinating. In Sri Lanka we have quite a few geckos living in the house - I'll see them in a different light from now on.

[BethAnne]

Thank You Paul for your responses.
As far as any ET....while I have had telepathic "conversations" with Beings of this Earth and Beings from who knows where, I haven't had a sighting of ET.  But then I really do not want to.
Yet, I live about an hour from Dulce and hear all sorts of stories.  When the lineman was putting in Fiber Optics from Denver to Albuquerque and passed through this area he told my friend who is a local UFO Researcher that Durango, Co ordered a couple of lines so they would have enough for the future and Dulce, a very small Apache Reservation ordered 100.    I volunteered to help with our now defunct UFO Conference and met many of the Big Guys in UFO research.  Most impressive was Travis Walton's talk.   The movie "Fire in the Sky" was about his experience.  I guess this was his first talk since and came because one of our organizers was his friend.  He broke down half way through.  SOMETHING  happened to him.
I've had friends go camping in Carson Nat Forest.  One minute their steaks were defrosting on the cooler.  The next they were totally warm.  This triggered their memories of being zapped by a Blue Light which froze them. 
So who knows whats up.  I just don't want to experience it.  I've got enough on my plate as it is.

I have experienced people who can't think beyond their reptilian brain.  LOL  And there are a lot of stories from the Navajo Rez about Shapeshifters.

[voidypaul]

   Hi , Sena,
             Haha  yes, i was in Sri Lanka in the early 90's + i know what you mean by quite a few geckos , almost as bad as the cheeky little monkeys you have.
             I'm sure that Seth has said somewhere in his works that many of the animals we
have in our reality are in fact the dominant species in other realities + such is the case with our reptiles.  So yes looking at them in a new light might be quite rewarding in some ways , good luck with them .


              peace, paul





Hi Beth ,
           sounds interesting about the beings you have telepathic contact with , i would like to hear a little more of this if you would.
           Et's are mostly benign but there are the one's who once lived here on earth who have had problems with gross genetic manipulaton + have almost strerilised themselves + cannot reproduce so come here for new genetic stock to help stabilise + refresh their own genetics + to save their species . I believe that most abductions come under this banner + they do not wish us harm but can be clumsy in their comings + goings with some folks but i also understand that they will make up for this to those whom they have frightened + there are some much more pleasant suprises in store for their 'donors' one day in the future.
          Some of the et's have actually helped stall some of the more nefarious nuclear designs our own gov's have had so in some ways it balances itself out. I have heard that there are some folks here who quite well understand  + accept the conditions of their 'abductions' but i am not one of them so i cannot spk of their expereiences.  Generally the et's hypnosis techniques are successful in blocking out the memory of the  whole process but sometimes as in the case of your frieinds etc they cannot cover all their tracks.
          Yes the Navajo's have known about this for a long long time.
           I remember the film fire in the sky, difficult thing to go thru for some.
           Hope you keep well , paul

[BethAnne]

           sounds interesting about the beings you have telepathic contact with , i would like to hear a little more of this if you would.

This is too complicated to put on a public forum

[voidypaul]

    You can email me if you like Beth , if you can't find my email then Deb will direct you to it .
     If not no problem I understand certain sensitivities + being personal .
 
   I always like the pictures etc you put in your posts even if like the rothschilds one they make my blood boil they always ultimately do me some good , cheers .




   peace , paul

[BethAnne]

It's not so much about being secretive as I am not sure what is going on and do not want to lead anyone down a Blind Alley.
Being a part of Deb's Seth forum opened a can of worms for me,

in that having a place that is based on Seth Tech is great and shifted my personal reality because I had folks to talk to.   Most people can't deal with me because many of my decisions are based on Seth.  Such as when I didn't renew my insurance after my divorce.  All my nurse friends were scandalized.   
I greatly appreciate what Deb has done.
Because of the butterfly effect it threw my Grid off balance and I got to deal with this.

Check out my Blog.  It was intended to leave Bread Crumbs for my kids in case I disappeared!  LOL
http://bethnm.blogspot.com/

[Deb]

Being a part of Deb's Seth forum opened a can of worms for me,

Hah, good thing they're gummy worms. That's positive!
I'm very happy that you like the forum, you're certainly a pleasure and have a lot to contribute. The feeling is mootual (to quote from Young Frankenstein).

Now I'm off to study your breadcrumbs.

[Deb]

It is quite tastless + even horrifying to
some, the idea of a con's which is in an area or
level where no thoughts or images exist .

The idea that we in our current state have access to such as place as the void is very interesting to me. For all intents and purposes, I've long thought we were meant to be as we are, shut off from anything other than the current camouflage reality. But of course all of what Seth spoke about was trying to help us get in touch with the resources and unlimited knowledge available to us, at least as far as framework 2. Regaining the abilities we'd lost during our intellectual evolution. But the void... goes back, waaay back, to the source of all?

Not even thoughts
can be made manifest in this area, this undiff' sp'
or field or level  is ''beyond'' F2 , no images or
thoughts.   Do you uderstand  ?

But Joe's goal is to get people into that void state,
the state of no-one, no-where, no-thing,

It almost seems like Joe's concept or interpretation of the void is a little different than what you're explaining, because in his void there is thought. He could be trying to get us all into F2. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what he's saying, not separating consciousness from thought, since I can't imagine (from where I currently stand) consciousness without thought.

paul;   I will eventually get round to describing my
vairious void states.

So there are more levels, more void states...?  The jhana states you mention?

Why is formlessness + void so attractive to the likes of me ?

Your desire to be in the void reminds me very much of stories told by people who have had near death experiences and didn't want to come back. They had to drag themselves away from the feeling of acceptance, wholeness, bliss, pure love they experienced over "there" (where ever they went) and were looking forward to dying for real. Interesting enough, I've never heard of any of them offing themselves in their need to get back there. Maybe no one talks about that. Or it could be because they came back understanding the meaning and purpose of life here with a renewed sense of purpose.

i actually think in some way that my viodyness goes somewhat  against the grain for most sethies as i tend to 'pull' in the opposite direction in the sense that i go back toward the source rather than out into the creation as most sethies do.

Yep, now that you mention it. But I envision creation and progress as a sort of loop: we came from the source to various existences to learn and grow and experience not only for ourselves, but the source as well. Sort of like soldiers going off to foreign wars, we are here to achieve certain goals and then eventually return to source when we're done incarnating. Where did Seth go? Jane? We don't know for sure, but it sounds like they're not coming back, here at least.

What is left when there are not even thoughts or images of any kind ?  What is consciousness here ?   

Lots to explore. I have so many questions.

Barrie Writes: There are a few categories of questions regarding Paul's comments: There is what Seth actually said; what Paul actually believes; and what Paul would like to find in the Seth material. What I believe you will eventually realize is that what you find the most deeply fascinating and significant parts of the Seth material, that would have or should be expanded upon, may not be what others believe.

I have found many times over the years that when the Seth material does not fit the beliefs of some Seth readers, those readers in question say something like, "IF Seth was free to say the full truth, then he would say what I'm saying." OR, "If Seth had the chance, he would say what I'm saying." OR some variation of this--which is what you now display by saying "that if jane had lived long enough Seth would have" spoken about the things I believe--in the manner that I believe them.

It would be really helpful if quotations from Seth could be included with comments so those of us (me) who haven't read all of the books yet can track things down and, maybe, what Seth DID actually say so we (me) can develop our own interpretations if Seth wasn't clear about something.

I really enjoyed your, ummm, discourses with @barrie, hopefully he returns.

I'd better stop here for now, I could go on all day with just this one topic. I'll save my questions for other posts so as to not overwhelm.

[barrie]

Hi Paul,  I recently returned from vacation and just today was able to find your post--the one you mentioned. So, I'll read it and respond as soon as I can. Just to let you know that I haven't dropped out or skipped town.
Barrie

[voidypaul]

   Hi Barrie ,
                  nice to hear from you , hope you + all had an enjoyable holiday .
           
                  Look forward to more 'jousting' .

[voidypaul]

   Fascinating questions Deb , you said

         '' But of course all of what Seth spoke about was trying to help us get in touch with the resources and unlimited knowledge available to us, at least as far as framework 2. Regaining the abilities we'd lost during our intellectual evolution. But the void... goes back, waaay back, to the source of all?''

   Paul ;

        As far as i'm concerned yes the deepest pure void state + nonbeing are a part of      source or ATI + inseperable .*

Seth said , the very 1st creation of ATI was an unendurable mass with no weight .
         
       Try + imagine what an unend' mass of no weight might    actually be .

        unend' mass ,                                        no weight .

       Absolutely nothing else

        In terms of the Divine Being we are talking about , this must have been quite an incredible , infinite reality . 
 
        an 'appearence' of absolutely nothing else but pure mass/no weight .

        no weight , nothing to hold it back so to spk from its own unendurable                       massivness .

       cons' beings have not been seeded into it yet ,         so no weight  . 

     When the cons' beings are seeded into the unend' mass ,  this is the weight
      that moves it out of tranquility + quiescent potential       
       +  is  the moment point of the blinding        flash of creation .

       An unendurable mass of no weight is not that hard to imagine as a void .
       There is no thing within it  ,  so it is formless ,
        This mass takes up no space ,   as we concieve space to be .
         there are no thoughts within it as   it has not yet been seeded with  con's
          there is no action within it , it is entirely passive potential +
           Divine tranquility .
           The female Aspect of ATI or 'His' Divine Femininity.


     it is of ATI , so it is of cons' . 
       

    for me it is the 1st primal void state , pure unadulterated mass (energy) of no weight      no space + no action , a purely passive , receptive state .

        The 1st creation of ATI .

        given the fact that ATI had not yet filled it with all the prob' + poss' of cons' ,       it is in a sense an emptyness to be filled  + momentarily seperate from all of             ATI's cons' creation , that are still  as yet ''held'' in prob' suspension within Him 

                     
  To me, this unend' mass was ''exuded''  from ATI as He held all of His creation in suspension / non-being + agonised in His searching for the ways + means to actuality +
set His Creations Free .

I believe it was ATI's  Deep , singular ''meditation'' + concentration  that 'caused'       the unend' mass to exude from Himself .

   like the ''ether'' that some psychics/mystics can exude when they are in a deep       communion.

I mean singular in the sense that He was alone with this agonising dilemma 

i believe , quite literally , that

              when ATI completely immersed Himself into  Searching ,
               that 1st He put into ''suspension + non-being''   
                All of His Cons' Creation 
           SO he could intensely concentrate His Divine awareness entirely into the agonised searching +       
                  so as to protect His cons' creations from the
          unparralleled agonising He went through  on scales that would have  obliterated any one part of His Own Creations or driven them insane if they had Felt such  Agonising + Painful unfulfilled Desires of Creation  , with no means  to fulfill them .

              It was this inner concentration + agonising that in itself brought about the means to be +   that caused the ''energy'' of the unendurable mass to  exude from Him .
The unend' mass became the means by which ATI could let His creations free .

       His Divine, Intense Internal concentration + meditation caused the unend' mass to            ''appear'' or exude from His Being .
           some call it the Divine or Cosmic Egg

           Seth said , that if Ati could not have concentrated enough of His energies then He may not have made the Breakthroughs that He did .  This is of upmost impotance to me as i think it is because of the incredible intensity of ATI's inner searching that the unendurable mass was produced , sort of like a by-product ,   of the intensity of His Infinite Inner Concentration .

     When ATI released all of His Creation from the suspension of all probabilities + possibilities (He had put them into) in His Mind , He released them into this primal void state or, unendurable mass of no weight .

     I sometimes wonder how a scientist would view an unend' mass of no weight if indeed they would entertain such a thought .

     Personally i cannot help but come to the conclusion that it is indeed synonymous with a void state as ,  absolutely nothing  is there , but pure energy or mass of no weight, taking up no space or time + entirely passive , no action .

    The unend' mass or void can be said to be an expansion of ATI but seeing as ATI is beyond such things as time + space so this expansion must not be seen as existent in either time or space but beyond these designations entirely . Void or unend' mass/no weight is not easily grasped by the intellect , when that intellect must use time + space as its basic tools to conceptualise .       
                         It is only the intuitions that can comprehend void ,  or an            unend' mass/no weight that exists neither in space or time + has no action or does not act within itself , but it is aware + cons' of its being . There is also feeling or emotion of the pure potential  energy that it is . It is aware that it is void .
  And it collapses simultaneously + instantaneously around + into , each infinite being of cons' that ATI seeds into it .

     If even the slightest thought is added to an otherwise 'empty' mass of no weight then
of course some weight is added +  bestirs the still + tranquil waters of void + creates an action within a previously inactive or potential state .
     The 1st vibration so to spk in a no-thingness , + this will have endless + infinite repurcussions . The slightest weight of cons' will 'tip' the void , out of the darkness into the light .

I think that the primal void or unend' mass contains the  passive energy potentials (+ blueprints) + is not in + of itself active , it is a receptive/femenine state , + into this ATI pours all of His  Psychic Conscious Potentials/beings  + BANG the action errupts .

Action that is not active is pure potential ,      this is void.

This void or unend' mass  is like a womb  ,  receptive , quiescent , tranquil , awaiting seeding + fruition . It is a part of cons' because ATI has produced it thru His    immense agonised concentration + is Of Him , but it is yet still seperate from the cons' beings in suspension/nonbeing within ATI's mind .  In a sense the void was born out of or a by product of the agony that ATI felt (which He protected His cons' creations from) .
             
Nothing moves , it waits in eternity , it is awake + aware of itself (only) , it is cons' but it does not move or bestir itself in any direction . It is Tranquility in the purest sense.

Until ATI pours all of His creation into it , then actualised creation + time + space begin

  the unendurable mass quote is from Dreams, evolution ; session 883 .

The nonbeing quote is from The Seth material , chapter 18 .

At this time , this is the best i can do to describe some of the oddities of my void states + yes Deb there are several layers or states to go thru before pure void + then nonbeing .

Pure void + nonbeing are the deepest of void states or jhana , Deb .

Don't mind if anyone wants to try + rip into this as i know how imperfect a description it is , so help yourselves , it will help me in the long run . Cheers .

peace , paul .

[Deb]

Seth said , the very 1st creation of ATI was an unendurable mass with no weight .
         

OK, I'm sorry if I'm going to disappoint you here, but I tend to sometimes get hung up on words, my only current way to understand communications being conveyed to me. I'm not as psychically attuned as I'd like to be, or even as I should be. Well, sometimes I am. I have the feeling that I am right where I belong, on this plane that I currently occupy. Kindergarten. Unfortunately, no precociousness here. So I'll offer my ignorance to you and just slog away with unendurable questions.

Question one: Can you better define "unendurable mass without weight" ? I can maybe grasp the concept of mass without weight, but I don't understand the unendurable part. Why unendurable mass? My internal definition of unendurable is not able to be tolerated, unbearable. So I don't understand that phrase, and I think my understanding is key to my understanding beyond this first step. Seth lost me a while ago explaining the Beginning as three dilemmas of ATI or something like that: again, me getting hung up on words. Unendurable? Dilemma? Apparently I'm not a complete dolt, or I would not be pursuing these questions.

Your (thankfully) long description of the Beginning (you were repetitive, which I needed and drove the concepts home, per se) smacked to me of the human creation/birth process. As if, we, as humans, are repeating the original creation of reality with the creation of each human introduced into this reality. As is above, so below.

Did you catch that? Cosmic Egg. Exude. Womb. Seeding + fruition. Creation. Born of agony.

Where did ATI come from? How was ATI created? Or exist, before the birth of the void? These are questions I've had all of my life, that science/physics/dork public school never answered. Contemplating infinity goes not only forwards, but backwards as well.

I completely understand the need to create. The loneliness that ATI must have felt when It first became self-aware WAS unendurable. I can relate. But for me the idea of the sudden existence of ATI makes me think that there was something before that spark of ATI consciousness came to be. THAT alone has captured my imagination and made my mind and train of thought derail—since I was a child.

We have much more to discuss about your void state, at least much more from my perspective. You seem to have a comfortable relationship with it.

This post is just my first reaction to yours. I have more to add (more questions) in the near future.

[voidypaul]

   Hi Deb,
                  you said ,
                              '' So I'll offer my ignorance to you and just slog away with unendurable questions.''

Paul ; haha good one .             
                  You are an extremely bright + intellient woman Deb . I fail to understand why you dismiss your keen insights in such a way sometimes except that you may have some wierd deprecating humour or rabid modesty i'm missing here . Personally i percieve someone much deeper than this shilly shallying .  Please don't put youself down , or else , ok .
I deeply appeciate what you have to offer in many ways , my little miss administrator + it is your intuitve + intelligent curiosity that i find most refreshing thank you .
 
                 So that said ,

                  you asked ;
Deb ;                               
                              ''Can you better define "unendurable mass without weight" ?  I can maybe grasp the concept of mass without weight, but I don't understand the unendurable part. Why unendurable mass? My internal definition of unendurable is not able to be tolerated, unbearable.


Paul ;
                 Good question ,
                                 + you're right , this mass was/is intolerably massive +
unbearable to behold or sustain .   It is beyond all concepts or ideas of space + time or massiveness .
              ATI cannot help but create + even when He put all of His cons' dreams into suspension + non-being + at that 'juncture' did not create more cons' beings , still His Divine energy even though directed inwards into solving His primary dilemma still had an effect that was real + 'tangible' upon the 'environment' He inhabited .
             Like the 'vibes' of a person filling a room but in this sense they coalesced into what is known of as void .
             i'm not even sure that ATI knew what He had done or what effects He was producing by His intense internal concentration . He was trying something new out of the Divine love + compassion He felt for that which He had already created + wished to set free.
                                Void is an expansion inwards/outwards + in all directions simultaneously by all portions/parts of itself ,   of mass energy or pure ATI energy expressed as  mass , which is alive + aware within itself + cons , but the production of which becomes unendurable even for ATI Himself as it is of His own 'fibre' + energy that it is made or produced .

                There is nothing in human terms that could describle such a mass , which reaches simultaneously inwards in all poss' directions as it does 'outwards' . But there is not actually any direction in this field . It is more like , that every warp , weft + fibre of this mass is endowed with a multidimensional awareness/action , within the inf' 'levels' of itself   
              It is not until ATI makes the connections within Himself about the means to make His creation manifest that He became simultaneously aware of what He had done in creating this unendurable mass out of Himself + which became the 'portion' of Himself that he gave up or lost when He poured His own cons' creations into it + let go .
   
            It  became unendurable to sustain such a pure energy mass state , + this in a sense woke Him from His divine revery . This mass would be cosmic beyond all proportion .  It is a state of transcendence in that there is absolutely no limitation or boundary to it in any concievable 'direction'
or by any means , except that of ATI Himsef + even He could not contain it but used it to pour His creations into .

            In a sense this primal void was also made up of all of the blueprints for the infinite realities that were needed for each of His Divine cons' creations , which He knew could not exist within His own mind . These blueprints were also  produced out of His massive cosmic meditation .

             The energy of the mass is a direct effect produced by ATI from the intense concentration of His agonising + searching . His meditation produced it ,so it is alive , cons' , intensely activated pure mass/energy . It is a part or portion of ATI's own Divine Being  but expanded or exuded from Him as He focused more + more of His Infinite Energy inwards + internally , this mass was produced in direct relation + proportion to His massive subjective inner drive toward freeing the Creation from His Superlative + Divine Mind . 

        It is a similar effect but on an infinitesimally minute scale, as that when a person is intensely concentrated in some way either positively or negatively + another person enters the room + can more or less immeadiately pick up on these vibrations + ascertain the mood of that person .        More reflections .


            Again you are absolutely correct in surmising that
Deb ;
                 ''it smacked to me of the human creation/birth process. As if, we, as humans, are repeating the original creation of reality with the creation of each human introduced into this reality. As is above, so below.

Did you catch that? Cosmic Egg. Exude. Womb. Seeding + fruition. Creation. Born of agony''


Paul ;
           Yep , caught that one lttle miss clever clogs , hehe .

           All of creation , at whatever 'level' , reflects these principals or modalities of creation in one way or another . The birth process of course ,  an artist who struggles to recreate the living artwork inside of him/her , the struggle to become what we wish + hope we can be , the falling down + the lifting up , are all in some small personal ways , a reflection of the struggle of ATI to create + set free those creations from inside of Himself . Even your questioning as a child .

             Your intuition is spot on Deb , as above so below . Refections of divinity .


          This clever + deep thinking person then asked ;
Deb ;

              ''Where did ATI come from? How was ATI created? Or exist, before the birth of the void?''

Paul ;
                 Brilliant , in simplicity + depth my dear ,

          No one knows , not even ATI , where He came from , nor from what .  But ,
He does know that He came from 'something' , that there must have been 'another' that was the source of His own awakening + awareness . So HE ever eternally , infinitely searches His own origins . I'm sure Seth has said somewhere that this searching is the basis of all reality + the creation of ever more newer realities that can be probed + searched for answers + in doing so ever more realities come into being without cease .
         
          No one knows , it is the greatest mystery of all . If you've been asking these questions since childhood Deb then you are a far deeper thinker than i'd imagined , it is the deep + mysterious in you that asks , + it is supremely good . One day you will connect with your inner transcendence , i'm sure of this . If not i'll bite my own head off + throw it at you .

         It was ATI who created the Divine Void that underpins all of created reality , + it may be that ATI was in fact seeded into a void Himself , but He was nevertheless left to His own  devices + loneliness to find out for Himself who or what He was , as in a sense we all are .        That reflection thing again .

        There are in my experience of these void states , reflections of ATI's own initial awakening but they are extremely subtle + difficult to untangle from the void itself , She still holds many secrets from me .  More or less my whole life has been spent in probing this inf' void + one day i will try + seduce Her secrets out of Her again + maybe this time she will not spit me out + blow my mind again haha , i hope .

         you then said ;
Deb ;
                        ''We have much more to discuss about your void state, at least much more from my perspective. You seem to have a comfortable relationship with it.''

Paul ;                   
         I hope so Deb i deeply enjoy your insightful , intuitive + on the mark questions .
         Comfortable may not be the best description , but i most certainly do have an intimate relationship with it . She is much much bigger + more expansive than i could ever be ,  me weeping into my dirty sweaty string vest again .
         
       
         You then said ;

Deb ;
       ''This post is just my first reaction to yours. I have more to add (more questions) in the near future.''


Paul ;
        Questions of such import , + to you are just a first reaction Wow i'm for a grilling when you really get going then , are'nt i .
                                                     You're unquenchable + incorrigable + i love it . It really does help me to put some of this voidy business into perspective + make it somewhat understandable , sort of , to more people , ta .

         Anyone for tea .

           peace , paul

[LenKop]

The level of reflection in life astounds me more and more.

The birth analogy, reflecting the Divine is one such example. Nature is so full of answers and expressions of the mysteries of the Creative Source.

How many times I have heard the expression that all the drops of the ocean make up the sea. Nothing being really seperate, as the waves of conciousness move to and fro.

Or the seasonal rebirth of the leaves and flowers in the trees. The Earth feeding the trunk, and the branches reaching out and expressing, while the invisible roots expreesing in their own subterranean reality. While the compost from last season feed back into the Earth.

Or the giant cosmos with its spinning planets mirroring the spinning molecules on the microscopic level.

Or clearing the mind like a bright blue sky, free from the dark clouds that block the view of the bright sun; our beliefs blocking our inner light.

You guys really bring the poet out of me...LOL

LK

[voidypaul]

    Hi LenKop ,
                      groovy + poetical response  , really like it . It says in such lovely + simple terms the interconnectedness of all beings of whatever import , you're a real earth soul are'nt you , a great quality to have + i also like your considered intellectual approach to these things too that i see in your posts .
                     Keep on goovin me old fruit

                         peace , paul

                     

[Deb]

You are an extremely bright + intellient woman Deb . I fail to understand why you dismiss your keen insights in such a way sometimes except that you may have some wierd deprecating humour or rabid modesty i'm missing here . Personally i percieve someone much deeper than this shilly shallying .  Please don't put youself down , or else , ok .

Oh man, Paul, keep up the compliments and I may never stop asking you questions. I dismiss my "keen insights" because most people I know think I'm looney tunes for not following the official line of consciousness. I just see myself as someone with an insatiable sense of curiosity and for a person who only came across the Seth materials a few years ago, somewhat retarded, lol. Not to dismiss that I took to the Seth materials like a clam takes to low tide in a Louisiana bayou. And maybe I feel just a little embarrassed that I created this Seth forum and probably have read less Seth books than anyone else here. But I'm sincere in my passion for the Seth materials and as I've said before, I have other talents to bring to the table. OK, 'nuff of that. On to the good stuff.

My mental visuals during your explanation of ATI are that
(1) ATI was/is consciousness, but until the very beginning as we know it, it was consciousness without self-awareness. We still have life forms on this plane that are conscious but not self-aware. At least, that's the theory. So a part of me can comprehend that: a sleeping consciousness. Then a dreaming consciousness. Then a lucid dreaming consciousness with deliberate creation. My visual was of an eye slowly opening in the cosmos.
(2) When was It created? Maybe ATI was not created so much as always in existence. No beginning, no end, it just has always been. Something many of us mortals can't comprehend, from our perspective, because in our current existence we look for beginnings and endings and answers so we can label things and go on to the next puzzle. ATI is in the void, the void is in ATI. As we are.
(3) So, maybe once ATI became self-aware, it also became aware of its purpose (to create) and also that it was ALONE. That, to me, is where the unbearable part comes into play. The need and ability to create and no one, no thing to share it with.

No one knows , not even ATI , where He came from , nor from what .  But ,
He does know that He came from 'something' , that there must have been 'another' that was the source of His own awakening + awareness . So HE ever eternally , infinitely searches His own origins . I'm sure Seth has said somewhere that this searching is the basis of all reality + the creation of ever more newer realities that can be probed + searched for answers + in doing so ever more realities come into being without cease

That's profound. I wondered about that too, before I came up with my "it's always been" thought. That's the stuff mythology is made from. Sleeping giants. The source wanting to find it's own source. The house of mirrors.

More or less my whole life has been spent in probing this inf' void + one day i will try + seduce Her secrets out of Her again + maybe this time she will not spit me out + blow my mind again haha , i hope .

Thank you for your explanations, they give me a better understanding now of what Seth was talking about, at least as much as I've read so far.

Your experience with the Void made me search for examples of EEG readings done by Joe Dispenza. Once I get my hands on the book again (hopefully today), I'll scan and put up some photos so you can see what happens in the brain when someone is in meditative rapture as compared to the normal awake state. Some readings were so far out of range that the equipment couldn't keep track, they had to recalibrate. Readings that doctors would interpret as having a grand mal seizure, although the people having these spikes were blissfully peaceful and came back with some amazing stories to tell. Really impressive.

Tea? Yes please. Hah, I usually bring tea with me when I travel and realized at one point that I will NOT need to do it this time, I'm going to the source of my favorite tea. I wonder if they give plant tours? Celestial Seasons out here does. Boy howdy, the peppermint room is a real eye-opener.

A quick question for you (or anyone reading this): I'll be taking one Seth book on the plane with me. Out of Dreams, Evolution and Value Fulfillment One; Adventures in Consciousness; and The Unknown Reality One, which would you recommend? Or would recommend something different? I have a cache of Seth books I haven't read yet... I downloaded Dreams and Projections of Consciousness to Kindle, but still prefer reading "real" books on planes.

PS
OMG!!! I was just going through some Hubble photos to add to a new topic and found this one (attached) that reminded me of my mental vision of the creation of the void. As I was staring at it, it reminded me of a painting I was "forced" to do (I'm not an abstract person) last year. Check it out:

My one and only ever abstract. Acrylic on canvas. 16" X 20". Don't ask me what it's about, I have no clue. It just happened. Maybe it's my entity, keeping a eye out for me. 

[barrie]

Hi Paul,

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Seth does not originate his own material, but receives it from Seth2, therefore the material is not coming from Seth, but rather from Seth2. Not only I do I disagree with this, but when it is true, I believe it is not in the human manner with the human separations of self that you insert into these comments.

So, I disagree with your interpretations. There are a number of things going on in these comments. In part, Seth2 is talking about when Seth2 is giving information. At first, Seth had to interpret it; and then, eventually, Jane was able to get it herself from within from Seth, and speak the words herself.

In other words, at first, when Seth2 tried to give information, Seth just had to translate it in his own "voice." As Jane got better as a medium, she was able to get the information in Seth2's voice—altho I believe Seth still had to do some translating within Jane, so to speak.

Sometimes everything is pure 100 percent Seth and other times Seth is translating information from Seth2, and putting it into his own words—but to use metaphors—this would be more like a focal personality, or person, responding to its own inspiration, than it is like person getting information from another person.

The person and his inspiration are not separate; but two people are. On Seth's entity level, there is no separation of self as we know or experience it on Earth as focal personalities.

Seth2 (Session 408): He is much more aware of our relationship however than you are of your relationship to him

Barrie NOW Comments: So, as a person may speak and move back and forth between his creativity, inspiration and stream-of-consciousness comments, and then go back to his intellectual thoughts and thinking—and have may happen repeatedly thru a long discussion or writing process—is what I believe happens within Seth as he gives the material—but instead of calling it Seth's stream of consciousness—at HIS level, where the Selves are not separated as our functionally are—it is actually Seth2. That is, Seth's relationship to Seth2 is CLOSER to our relationship to our own stream-of-consciousness, than it is to our relationship between two separate beings or two separate selves.

To put another way, Seth2 would be much closer to Seth's deeper thoughts, than to a whole other self. Thus, Seth IS Seth2; and Seth2 is Seth—but more expansive, so to speak.

Seth2 (Session 407): "Seth is what I am, and yet I am more than Seth is. Seth is however independent (smile, eyes open), and continues to develop as I continue to develop also. (Smile.) In the spacious present you see, we both exist.

Barrie NOW Comments: Remember, Seth has a totally hugely different conscious awareness of and interaction within the spacious present than we consciously do as focal personalities in F1.

So, I do not believe that the whole Seth material is not Seth. Why do I say that?  For a number of reasons, but let's look at this one. Look at what Seth says (CAPS FOR EMPHASIS) regarding "another personality" which is Seth2:

Seth (Session 588): "Now: The soul knows itself, and is not confused by terms or definitions. Through showing you the nature of my own reality, I hope to teach you the nature of your own.

"You are not bound to any category or corner of existence. Your reality cannot be measured any more than mine. I hope to illustrate the function of consciousness and personality through writing this book and enlarging your concepts.

"Now I began by telling you that I was dictating this material through the auspices of a woman of whom I was quite fond. Let me now tell you that there are other realities involved. THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPHS WILL BE WRITTEN BY ANOTHER PERSONALITY, who stands relatively in the same position to me as I stand to the woman through whom I am now speaking."

Barrie Comments: IF the "following paragraphs will be written by another personality," then it obviously implies that the previous paragraphs where NOT written by another possibility.

Then came Rob's notes:

Rob's notes (mid Session 588): "(Pause at 11 :51. I now watched a transformation begin to take place in Jane, as our familiar Seth retreated and Seth Two began to come to the fore. At the same time I knew that subjectively Jane was experiencing the feeling of a "cone" or "pyramid" coming down over the top of her head. Jane has often told me that whereas she feels Seth come to her in a very warm and alive and friendly manner, she feels her consciousness going out of herself to meet Seth Two – 'up the invisible pyramid like a draft up a flue.' She doesn't know where she goes or how she gets back. Her body seems to be left behind.

(Jane sat very formally in her Kennedy rocker, her forearms upon the arms of the chair, her feet flat upon the rug. lt was a muggy night; our living room windows were open, and now I became conscious of traffic noise. I heard someone moving about in the apartment upstairs.

(Jane's eyes were closed, but occasionally they opened slightly. She smiled faintly as she spoke far Seth Two. The voice that began to issue from her was very high, very distant and formal with little volume ar emphasis. Each ward was carefully and deliberately, almost delicately, spoken. It was as though Seth Two wasn't familiar with vocal chords or words, and so took pains to use those mechanisms in just the right way. The contrast between the two Seths couldn't have been mare complete.)

Barrie NOW Comments: Here are those next paragraphs Seth speaks of:

Seth2 (Session 588): "We are the voices who speak without tongues of our own. We are sources of that energy from which you come. We are creators, yet we have also been created. We seeded your universe as you seed other realities.

"We do not exist in your historical terms, nor have we known physical existence. Our joy created the exaltation from which your world comes. Our existence is such that communication must be made by others to you.

"Verbal symbols have no meaning for us. Our experience is not translatable. We hope our intent is. In the vast infinite scope of consciousness, all is possible. There is meaning in each thought We perceive your thoughts as lights. They form patterns. (Each syllable was so carefully and separately pronounced.)

"Because of the difficulties of communication, it is nearly impossible for us to explain our reality. Know only that we exist. We send immeasurable vitality to you, and support all of those structures of consciousness with which you are familiar. You are never alone. (Pause.) We have always sent emissaries to you who understand your needs. Though you do not know us, we cherish you.

"Seth is a point in my reference, in our reference. He is an ancient portion of us. (Pause.) We are separate but united. (Long pause.) Always the spirit forms the flesh."

Barrie NOW Comments: So, first off, THOSE paragraphs were written by Seth2. This means that the other paragraphs were written by Seth.

Second: To try to separate Seth and Seth2 in the manner that you try, does not really fit who and what they are. They are not people like we are. When we speak of us humans, we can say there really is no separation between selves, and so forth, but for practical F1 purposes there ARE these separations—like between conscious, subconscious and unconscious, between various incarnations, between focal personalities and entities, etc. There really is NO separation, but from the focal personality's perspective—there is and has to be.

Seth2 (Session 408): He is much more aware of our relationship however than you are of your relationship to him

Barrie NOW Comments: SO from Seth's perspective, this type of  human,  F1-purpose separation—just doesn't exist for it is not needed—and so Seth and Seth 2 are really more like aspects of the same Self. To use an analogy, with humans, you can't really separate inspiration from the intellectual writing process, altho they are separate—they are united together in practical ways which make them "one."  You wouldn't look at them as two separate personalities. One called "inspiration" and the other "intellect."  They are part of the same personality, the focal personality. We said, "Fred's inspiration is amazing. "Fred's intellect is amazing."

I believe this is MORE like the relationship between Seth and Seth2—as far as we human's can understand it. But I do not believe their relationship in THEIR practical sense is like any person's is to their own entity—which usually remaims quite "hidden" from the waking, conscious F1 self in any practical way.

Thus, Seth2 says:
Seth2: "Seth is a point in my reference, in our reference. He is an ancient portion of us. (Pause.) We are separate but united. (Long pause.) Always the spirit forms the flesh."

Barrie NOW Comments: So, to say that Seth2 gives the information to Seth, and Seth just translates it—is way too human an interpretation—seeing an entity like Seth—as an equivalent of one focal personality—and then comparing that one focal personality's to Seth. Seth & Seth2 may have the same descriptive type of relationship. but NOT the same substantive type.

Now, let's go back and look at Session 407:

Seth2 (Session 407): "Seth is what I am, and yet I am more than Seth is. Seth is however independent (smile, eyes open), and continues to develop as I continue to develop also. (Smile.) In the spacious present you see, we both exist.

"Some material he can present to you more clearly than I. This was particularly true up to this present point. (Pause. I wondered: if Seth isn't speaking now, who is?)  He is closer to you in personality makeup and closer to your reality, therefore he could transmit ideas to Ruburt in more understandable terms than I.

"There was a point, you see, of interpretation and translation (pause) as Seth interpreted material from me in such a way that Ruburt could then receive it. At our last session, with the greater efficiency and the development on Ruburt's part (pause), the material was more direct, and the translation at his end automatic and smoothly performed."

Barrie NOW Comments:  As I interpret this in our human terms, and IN METAPHOR, sometimes Seth speaks to us using HIS conscious mind; and sometimes HIS subconscious mind. And in that light, "some material he (Seth) can present more clearly than I (Seth2).

This is more like Seth's subconscious mind, then another Self. When Seth2 first tried to speak, Seth interpreted Seth2 in order for Jane to receive what he said. Now, here, Seth2 can speak for himself, but still with Seth translating it—but now Jane can speak those translations instead of Seth speaking them for her.

Other times, it may just be Seth speaking entirely on his own, so to speak; and other times translating what Seth2 is saying but saying it is his own voice—which in OUR metaphor would be like a person speaking "stream of consciousness."

Let's again look at this from Session 408:

Seth2 (Session 408): "Your first Seth is independent, and I am independent. (Pause.) Because he is a part of my reality does not mean that he is less an individual. My reality simply includes more, now, within your particular coordinates; and that last is important.

"He is another aspect of me while being himself. (Pause.) In your terms, I am a guide he also follows. He is much more aware of our relationship however than you are of your relationship to him. (Pause; well over one minute long.) Your time is required...

Barrie NOW Comments: It would be like someone saying that Barrie does not write his poems because he gets them, in part, large or small, from his inner voice, his inner self, his guide, etc etc. This would be foolish to say, to separate me as not me or not writing my poems because I get things separate from my ordinary conscious mind. In the same manner, you can say that I don't dream, that no one dreams because these dreams, also, come from an alternative source, other than the waking conscious self.