Why does a plane crash happen (according to Seth principles)?

[Sena]

Plane crashes are very infrequent compared to the vast number of flights taking place, but why do they take place at all? Surely nobody would want to create a reality in which he or she is killed in a crash? It is, however, conceivable that someone could have a "death wish" -  They may be faced with what seem like insoluble problems, and they might think to themselves that getting killed in a crash could be a "solution". It is said that the pilot of the Malaysian Airlines plane which crashed had marital and relationship difficulties.

We need to take account of what Seth said about "consensus reality". How I understand this is that if there is even one person on the plane who is supremely confident that they will be safe, the plane will not crash. This is because that highly confident person prevents a consensus being formed (telepathically) to crash the plane. It is only in the rare instance that there is not even one person on the plane with that attitude that a crash will occur.

[barrie]

Plane crashes are very infrequent compared to the vast number of flights taking place, but why do they take place at all? Surely nobody would want to create a reality in which he or she is killed in a crash? It is, however, conceivable that someone could have a "death wish" -  They may be faced with what seem like insoluble problems, and they might think to themselves that getting killed in a crash could be a "solution". It is said that the pilot of the Malaysian Airlines plane which crashed had marital and relationship difficulties.

We need to take account of what Seth said about "consensus reality". How I understand this is that if there is even one person on the plane who is supremely confident that they will be safe, the plane will not crash. This is because that highly confident person prevents a consensus being formed (telepathically) to crash the plane. It is only in the rare instance that there is not even one person on the plane with that attitude that a crash will occur.

Sena Writes: Plane crashes are very infrequent compared to the vast number of flights taking place, but why do they take place at all? Surely nobody would want to create a reality in which he or she is killed in a crash?

Barrie Responds: Sena, as I see it, each person born must choose their method of death...be it in their sleep or in a plane crash, etc etc etc. Physical death is not losing...it is an intrinsic part of physical reality that happens to everyone...altho consciousness continues, etc. People like to go out in many different ways for any number of intimate reasons. A person may wish to die in a plane crash because it will get attention in a special way; or because the actual death would be quick; or because they don't trust airplanes; or because they want to emphasize a certain problem with a particular plane and on and on and on and on—and any combination as well.

Sena Continues:  It is, however, conceivable that someone could have a "death wish" -  They may be faced with what seem like insoluble problems, and they might think to themselves that getting killed in a crash could be a "solution". It is said that the pilot of the Malaysian Airlines plane which crashed had marital and relationship difficulties.

Barrie Responds: Everyone eventually has a death wish. Either we create our own realities or we don't. We al are born and die. We all choose the exact birth situations we are born into and with; and we all choose the exact moment and method of our deaths.

Sena Continues: We need to take account of what Seth said about "consensus reality". How I understand this is that if there is even one person on the plane who is supremely confident that they will be safe, the plane will not crash.

Barrie Responds: How I understand it is that if there is one person who doesn't want to crash, he would "find" a reason to avoid getting on the plane—or he would somehow survive the crash. But I believe it is more likely that if there is a consensus agreement that the plane will crash—and if a person doesn't want to be on the plane—something would come up to keep them off the plane. There are certain choices that can't be undone, so to speak. IF a person actually jumps off a cliff, it then becomes too late in physical terms to change his mind.

Sena Continues: This is because that highly confident person prevents a consensus being formed (telepathically) to crash the plane. It is only in the rare instance that there is not even one person on the plane with that attitude that a crash will occur.

Barrie Responds: One person cannot create the reality of all the others.

Be well & happy,
Barrie

[LenKop]

yeah I would agree that the one person who is not committed to move on from this reality would create a situation in which they do not get onto the plane in the first place. And there have been documented cases where people have missed planes, or trains, etc, for whatever reason, only to discover later that an 'accident' occured.

I suppose with the delay between booking tickets, arranging schedules and the actual flight, even the most committed to moving on get a chance to change their mind, at a deeper level. With that said, I'm certain there are multiple factors going on deep within the individuals, and the mass, that are unique to each particular drama.

LK

[Sena]

A person may wish to die in a plane crash because it will get attention in a special way; or because the actual death would be quick; or because they don't trust airplanes; or because they want to emphasize a certain problem with a particular plane and on and on and on and on—and any combination as well.

barrie, thanks for your comments. You seem to be suggesting that there could be an altruistic reason for some people dying in a crash - "to emphasize a certain problem with a particular plane". This could have been the case with the crash of the Comet plane, which was said to have been caused by "metal fatigue". This discovery may have made subsequent planes safer.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/19/newsid_3112000/3112466.stm

[barrie]

u seem to be suggesting that there could be an altruistic reason for some people dying in a crash

Barrie Responds: I believe there is always or almost always an altruistic reason why people choose to die when it is unexpected. This may not be the ONLY reason, but one of the reasons. The answers or results of this altruism would be found in the loved ones left behind who get moved in certain directions because of the death--they start thinking in new ways, form organizations, change the direction of their lives and so forth. Also, by definition, IF a death causes a change for the positive anywhere--it would be part of the mix concerning why the person chose that death--for these agreements include all the probabilities which may occur. These changes are not random and it would also be part of the reasons why OTHERS. those "left" behind, agreed to the death as well.

[Deb]

This has been a very interesting topic for me. I've been looking through Seth books the past couple of days, sort of researching this topic. So far it's mentioned in Seth Speaks, NOPR and of course Mass Events, although most of what I've found deals with natural disasters and disease. But I don't suppose whether one goes out in something like a plane crash or by epidemic or tsunami makes a difference, mass deaths make a big statement. The death is always chosen (on some level, making every death suicide in that way) and the reason is generally altruistic, serving the greater good by drawing attention to certain conditions that are the source of the protest.

I think the most important thing I've gotten from this topic is that there is meaning in everything. I find comfort in that.

From Mass Events, Session 802:

"To a certain extent (underline), epidemics are the result of a mass suicide phenomenon on the parts of those involved. Biological, sociological or even economic factors may be involved, in that for a variety of reasons and at different levels, whole groups of individuals want to die at any given time—but in such a way that their individual deaths amount to a mass statement.

"One one level the deaths are a protest against the time in which they occur. Those involved have private reasons, however. The reasons, of course, vary from one individual to another, yet all involved "want their death to serve a purpose" beyond private concerns. Partially, then, such deaths are meant to make the survivors question the conditions (dash)—for unconsciously the species well knows there are reasons for such mass deaths that go beyond accepted beliefs."

From Mass Events, Session 833:

"Death is a part of you, even as birth is. Its import varies according to the individual—and in a certain fashion, death is your last chance to make a statement of import in any given life, if you feel you have not done so earlier.

"Some people's deaths are quiet periods. Some others' are exclamation points, so that later it can be said that the person's death loomed almost greater in importance than the life itself.

"...They turn their deaths into lessons for other people, forcing them to ask questions that would not have been asked before. There are also mass statements of the same kind for people who come together to die, however, to seek company in death as they do in life. People who come together and "die for a cause" that did not give them the will or reason to live. They will seek out others of their kind."

This all makes me re-examine deaths of friends, acquaintances, unknowns throughout my past, to explore what manner of death they chose and what their message was... to whom, etc.

[Sena]

Barrie Responds: I believe there is always or almost always an altruistic reason why people choose to die when it is unexpected.

My wife's niece died of multiple sclerosis, a rare disease in Sri Lanka, when she was 25. Her younger brother's ambition is to become an airline pilot. His parents are just about able to afford to send him to a flying school in the U.S. If both children had been alive they may not have been able to afford it. The parents are anxious about the risks of their son being a trainee pilot, but I don't think they need to be.

[barrie]

:-)

[BethAnne]

If both children had been alive they may not have been able to afford it.An interesting observation.

There are A LOT of stories of people not going to the Twin Towers in NYC the day of the crash.  And I have friends who had dreams of it the night before and as it happened.

I have two sons.  One is a very quiet artist who will probably live a long quiet life.  The other is an adrenaline junky and every one is surprised he is still living at 42.  They could not trade lives.  There is 10 years between them and separate fathers which explains part of it, but they have very different Life Agendas.

Ryan, who tempts death often, has a new son who turned 2 in June.  Because of the parents ages they ended up having a test tube baby.  I personally don't agree with this but the child is just a radiant sunbeam.....with health problems because of his conception.  I will be surprised if he survives and I've had a dream awhile ago before he was even an idea that he would come and go quickly.

While I'm bracing my self for either option, in the Big Picture, this child's passing would save Ryan's Eternal Life.  Both my son's were raised on Seth and use it well.  Ryan is an extremely "lucky", wealthy, charming and admired person who gets what ever he wants so without many challenges he is an emotional teenager.  The passing of his son would save his soul.

[Batfan007]

Barrie Responds: I believe there is always or almost always an altruistic reason why people choose to die when it is unexpected.

My wife's niece died of multiple sclerosis, a rare disease in Sri Lanka, when she was 25. Her younger brother's ambition is to become an airline pilot. His parents are just about able to afford to send him to a flying school in the U.S. If both children had been alive they may not have been able to afford it. The parents are anxious about the risks of their son being a trainee pilot, but I don't think they need to be.

Hi Sean.
Do you have any idea why ms is less common in Sri Lanka. Do you think it's the equator / sunlight / vitamin d factor?

http://www.nationalmssociety.org/What-is-MS/What-Causes-MS

[Sena]

Do you have any idea why ms is less common in Sri Lanka. Do you think it's the equator / sunlight / vitamin d factor?

Hi Batfan,
Yes, a lack of vitamin D is one factor contributing to the higher prevalence of MS in temperate countries. There was a news item recently recommending that even adults in Britain should take vitamin D supplements in winter, mainly for healthy bones and teeth.

[Deb]

Yes, a lack of vitamin D is one factor contributing to the higher prevalence of MS in temperate countries.

That's interesting to me, because I live in Colorado where the sun is extremely strong and so one would think vit D levels would be fairly decent here. It's rumored that MS is prevalent in Colorado and I know several people that have it. There's also the issue of sun screen, which would contribute to vit D deficiencies. I've read articles that say gentle sun exposure actually prevents skin cancer (explaining the also-rumored continuing increase in skin cancer, considering the heightened use of high spf rated sun screen).

I'm sure Seth would say it's all based on our focus. Sometimes I have trouble separating my lifelong, OLC, drilled-in beliefs from Seth's more sensible explanations. I'm grateful for the knowledge, the tool, for taking a step back and analyzing the information we are being fed.

"Contradictions do not exist.
Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction,
check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."
~  Ayn Rand

Ayn Rand. Another voice of reason.

[Batfan007]

Do you have any idea why ms is less common in Sri Lanka. Do you think it's the equator / sunlight / vitamin d factor?

Hi Batfan,
Yes, a lack of vitamin D is one factor contributing to the higher prevalence of MS in temperate countries. There was a news item recently recommending that even adults in Britain should take vitamin D supplements in winter, mainly for healthy bones and teeth.

I've been talking Vitamin D for years, but nothing to do with sunlight reasons, but when I do strength training I take extra vitamins/mineral to get the best results, that is my body has an increased need when gaining mass for nutrients, and also speeds recover to have optimal nutrition etc.
Larger doses of common vitamins, minerals and natural factors in ordinary foods have also been used by doctors in larger than normal doses for treatment of various conditions and diseases. It's interesting to see how many conditions come from chronic mineral deficiencies, particularly as our modern soils are more depleted than say 100 years ago.

Then you have all the multidimensional factors, beliefs and other stuff come into it, freedom of choice, learning from consequences, pre-life chosen limitations and other co-factors.

[BethAnne]

XP is a fatal variant of xeroderma pigmentosum for which there is no known cure. In extreme cases, even a glint of sunlight can cause malignant skin cancers. Dorey and Yolanda Nez of New Mexico lost their son and daughter to XP. Both children also suffered from neurological degeneration, which can accompany the disease.

Over four years, filmmakers Maya Stark and Adi Lavy chronicled the Nez's search to find answers for what caused their children's disease. They discovered that while XP only affects 1 in a million children in the general population of the United States, 1 in 30,000 Navajo children inherit the disease. In the course of their investigation, the Nez's discover that some experts trace the prevalence of XP to the Long Walk of the Navajo, a bitter chapter of American history. During the Long Walk of 1864, about 10,000 Navajos were forced to march 500 miles to an internment camp. Only about 2,000 adults of reproductive age survived, creating a genetic bottleneck that makes today's Navajo population at greater risk of recessive genetic diseases, including XP, according to the film.

"Sun Kissed" will have its national premiere on the POV (Point of View) series, Thursday Oct. 18, at 10 p.m. on PBS (check local listings). Stark and Lavy hope their film helps educate the public about XP, and spreads the word about this dark chapter of history.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/skin-and-beauty/for-children-with-xp-gene-sunlight-can-kill.aspx



Painters come to New Mexico for the brilliant sunlight.....tho considerably dimmed by Chemtrails over the past 20 years.

[BethAnne]

I got a lot out of Abraham Hicks take on the health/death/suicide of animals and pets.

[Yeoshi Yamamoto]

In my understanding of the Seth Material, no one dies before he or she decides to do so. That is the undeniable freedom of choice we have. The time, circumstances, and reasons of every "death" event is as varied as there are stars in our universe.

For instance Seth mentions the sudden death of a 6 or 8 years old person. Seth says that the entity wishes to deal with issues, events, or experiences sometimes not dealt with in the past, (not to be confused with the misleading idea of Karma – retribution for past mistakes, as much as some would like it to be), or simply the wish to experience a specific set of circumstances, and the entity does not wish to reside on earth beyond the time it takes to actualize the desired experience. Once the experience is complete there is no further need for the body and it is disposed of. Being a practical entity, we may utilize our death event to present opportunities for learning and experience to other living beings, of course this is done cooperatively without conscious knowledge.

Thus the same applies to a plane crash where all on board may die simultaneously. In that case it is a shared experience and all have agreed to partake in it. Again the reasons are multitudinous and the opportunities for learning are equally so. Advances in plane design may occur. Some of the family relations of the dead people may experience their own learning, questioning, self examining, and so on. Nothing is lost in the event.

Take the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and resulting tsunami off the West coast of Sumatra. It is estimated that 250,000 died. This is a massive event, with incredible consequences. The occurrence of the earthquake and Tsunami are not coincidental events. Remember the golden assumption, we create our own reality and shared reality. Thus all of those people agreed to cooperate in that destruction. The event gave them the opportunity to depart with "grace" if you will. It might have been a response to unacceptable living conditions in the area, such as Seth in one of his books mentions as an example.

Why do plane crashes occur?

You might as well ask: Why does anyone die? It is a creative event that answers the call for action by our own being. Seth states clearly that our being(s) are constantly seeking action. As a side point this addresses Tom Campbell's assertion that our "Greater" consciousness is seeking to reduce entropy in his virtual model of reality. Seth states otherwise in my view. Increased entropy allows a greater potentiality of choices and probabilities. Reducing entropy is akin to saying the system is dying. That, cannot be. Thus I suggest Tom Campbell is wrong in his model.

The assumption that some people have a "death wish" is invalid in my view. Again, remember that we have total control of the means and time of our death. It is not a half hazard occurrence dictated by outside forces, though it certainly appears that way to many. Death is by design and by unconscious determination, it is never a fluke.

The same can be said of birth. Birth is action in its full glory as is death. They are both portals to action. That is what we should understand of them.

[Sena]

Take the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and resulting tsunami off the West coast of Sumatra. It is estimated that 250,000 died. This is a massive event, with incredible consequences.

One of the people who suffered from the tsunami was Sonali Deraniyagala, whose husband and two young sons died. The body of one of the sons was never recovered. She wrote a book called "Wave". I found it painful reading and could not read even half the book. Looking at this video, it would seem that Sonali has developed spiritually:

[Deb]

or instance Seth mentions the sudden death of a 6 or 8 years old person. Seth says that the entity wishes to deal with issues, events, or experiences sometimes not dealt with in the past, (not to be confused with the misleading idea of Karma – retribution for past mistakes, as much as some would like it to be), or simply the wish to experience a specific set of circumstances, and the entity does not wish to reside on earth beyond the time it takes to actualize the desired experience. Once the experience is complete there is no further need for the body and it is disposed of.

You know, you brought up a really good point there. I remember Seth explaining some miscarriages (I just found out tonight that Jane miscarried), or children that die young, come here only for the experience of, say, the gestational period or the early years. Some of them are 'rescued' by modern science and they may well change their minds and stay, or find another way to die not long after their rescue. I just found the quotes. The first paragraph could fit well within the topic on suicide here. Well, if we choose our time and method of death in advance (for the most part), then every death could be considered suicide.

"There are also perfectly healthy, normal children who have determined ahead of time that they will live only to the threshold of adulthood, happy and flushed with dreams and promises of accomplishment, yet not experiencing any disillusionment or regret or sorrow. Such young people die of sickness or accident, but go to their deaths like children after a splendid day. In most instances they choose quick deaths."

"Those fetuses that do not develop still contribute to the body's overall experience, and they feel themselves successful in their own existences. An understanding of these issues can greatly help throw light on the question of early deaths and diseases, and spontaneous abortions."

"I do want to point out that all fetuses do not necessarily intend to develop into normal babies, and that if medical science, through its techniques, ends up in directing a normal birth, the consciousness of the child may never feel normally allied with physical experience."

(The Way Toward Health, Ch. 12)

Seth had said that Jane's baby had changed it's mind. (Unknown Reality, Session 730), Rob:

"On a more personal level, Jane herself naturally aborted a three-month-old fetus, less than a year after our marriage in 1954 (and nine years before she initiated these sessions). Seth has said very little about this event, nor have we asked him to. He did remark some time ago in a private session that the miscarriage spontaneously came about because the personality inhabiting the fetus "changed its mind," and withdrew from the physical world. At some indefinite date we do plan to invite Seth to discuss the whole situation in detail."

Looking at this video, it would seem that Sonali has developed spiritually:

I can't even imagine living through something like that. What a beautiful and gracious person she is. She would have to have been spiritually advanced to begin with, to set herself up for such an experience.

[Batfan007]

Do you have any idea why ms is less common in Sri Lanka. Do you think it's the equator / sunlight / vitamin d factor?

Hi Batfan,
Yes, a lack of vitamin D is one factor contributing to the higher prevalence of MS in temperate countries. There was a news item recently recommending that even adults in Britain should take vitamin D supplements in winter, mainly for healthy bones and teeth.

I live in Australia, which gets loads of sun in EVERY state, through like 70% of the year. But surprisingly we have some low levels of Vitamin D in people here too.
main reason (according to stats) .........Sunblock.

Personally I never use sunblock, and I've been taking Vitamin D supplements for several years as part of strength training at the gym etc (along with other various vitamin/mineral supplements.

I remember a few years back when I read about physical again - and how we naturally become weaker in our bones/body etc as we age, and I'm like, well.....it's REALLY EASY to reverse that through consistent strength training. It's the #1 method, other than reducing total levels of stress.
Why is why my bones are now much stronger than they were 5 years ago. And part of the reason that I don't seem to age in the same way as people I've known since I was a kid., despite consuming considerable amounts of junk food and alcohol.

I've become more interested in connective tissue and joints recently, which seem to "age" faster than the rest of our bodies (often through use and abuse), and it's an area where many people have had amazing mind boggling healing through stem cell injections.

With the training this week for carers etc (I work as a carer, when I'm not doing other stuff) I wonder if anyone out there is doing research on the effects of stem cells on bed sores / pressure wounds.

[Deb]

OK, old topic but this came across Facebook today, courtesy of Ejay Jamb. This made me think of Mass Events, and how those who do not want to be involved in a mass event will not be. It's funny, but I also couldn't help but think what it would be like to be in this position.