~Speaking of Seth~

Seth mentions personality fragments in several places. I wonder how these are related to the phenomenon of Multiple Personality. Multiple Personality is currently labelled as a "disorder", but I wonder whether this is always the case.

"In a sense the present individual in any given life could be called a fragment of his entire entity, having all the properties of the original entity, though they remain latent or unused. The personality fragment in this sense can learn to develop what it has, rather than seek new powers. There are no new powers. The image that your friend saw was, as I said, a personality fragment of his own. It contained all the abilities of your friend, whether latent or not I do not know. This type of personality fragment is of different origin than your friend, who is himself a fragment of his own entity. We call this type a split personality fragment, or a personality image fragment. Usually it cannot operate on all levels of your physical plane."
—The Early Sessions Book 1 Session 9 December 18, 1963

"The entity operates its fragments in what you would call a subconscious manner, that is, without conscious direction. The entity gives the fragment independent life, then the entity more or less forgets them. [...] It's as impossible for the entity to control fragment personalities as for the conscious mind to be aware, or control its own heartbeat."
—TES1 Session 8 December 15, 1963

• "These dream personalities or fragments indeed have their own consciousness. [...] It must complete its nature according to the dimensions in which it exists, and so the dream personalities or fragments continue to exist whether or not you are aware of them."

• "[...] The personality as you know is composed of energy gestalts. The dreams created by the personality can be considered therefore as a part of the changing personality."

—TES4 Session 173 July 28, 1965

• "The self that you know is but one fragment of your entire identity. These fragment selves are not strung together, however, like beads of a string. [...]"

• "[...] This is the core of your identity, the psychic seed from which you sprang, the multidimensional personality of which you are part."

—Seth Speaks Chapter 1: Session 512, January 27, 1970

"Defined in your terms, a fragment is a consciousness not as developed as your own. The living portions of nature are the result of your own creativity, projections and fragments of your own energy; energy that comes to you from All That Is and goes outward from you, forming its own image manifestations as you form yours."
—SS Chapter 20: Session 582, April 19, 1971

"That is, many fragment personalities do become entities. We are dealing here with a psychic tree however, and the seeds or personalities that do not develop into entities, do not because they do not choose to do so."
—TES2 Session 54 May 18, 1964


If fragment personalities become entities, that seems like a very significant phenomenon.

I have just started reading a book "Minds In Many Pieces: Revealing the Spiritual Side of Multiple Personality Disorder" by Ralph Allison, Ted Schwarz (apparently nothing to do with Seth). If I come across anything relevant in that book, I'll post it here.

I am not an artist, but I have heard that some artists learn to paint "with their right brain". Could that be a personality fragment which is doing the painting?

Quote from: Sena
Seth mentions personality fragments in several places. I wonder how these are related to the phenomenon of Multiple Personality.

I've often wondered about multiple personality and how that relates to what Seth teaches about the various offshoots (and layers) of the entity, such as incarnations, counterparts and probable realities. Such as are what we see as MPD merely bleed-throughs of some of these aspects of one entity? Personality fragments add another dimension to the mix — but if I'm understanding what Seth said in these quotes fragments seem undeveloped, almost like passing thoughts, as a wisp of smoke eventually dissipates: real in a sense, but not completely organized ("a consciousness not as developed as your own" and "usually it cannot operate on all levels of your physical plane").

Quote from: Sena
I am not an artist, but I have heard that some artists learn to paint "with their right brain". Could that be a personality fragment which is doing the painting?

I do paint, but I feel I am more left brained and so it's an effort for me to quiet down my thoughts and get into that right brain state where I think less and my senses take over, time awareness disappears. I don't know about fragment with regards to that, it feels more to me like there's another aspect of my personality that I'm tapping into, such as there may be a probable self of me that's a successful artist and once in a while I am able to cross over into that me and utilize her talents. The first time I drew a portrait (as an adult art student) I drew an African woman, her hair pulled back in some sort of patterned scarf. It was larger than life, charcoal on a 2' x 3' pad. She was not a person I'd ever seen in my life, not my intended subject even, but it turned out beautifully and I had no idea how I did it. It was like the picture drew itself while I watched it come together. I've long felt that in some other incarnation I'm an artist. That other artist me has helped me paint more than once.

The book you're reading sounds interesting, nice to see that someone has taken a different approach to understanding what's really going on with MPD. I read some of the book reviews and found it interesting that one of the reviewers used the words fragments, entity and reincarnation.

Quote from: Deb
but if I'm understanding what Seth said in these quotes fragments seem undeveloped, almost like passing thoughts, as a wisp of smoke eventually dissipates:

Deb, I don't think this is necessarily the case.

"Frank Withers was a fragment personality of mine. He will continue, himself, to reincarnate and go his own way. Many of us leave fragment personalities as you leave children. Do you follow me?"
—Seth Speaks Chapter 11: Session 541, July 13, 1970

QuoteI read some of the book reviews and found it interesting that one of the reviewers used the words fragments, entity and reincarnation.

I am still on the second chapter, but another concept in the book is "Inner self helper". My understanding is that the healing of an MPD person happens when she gets in touch with her Inner Self Helper.

...

Quote from: Sena

Quote from: Deb
but if I'm understanding what Seth said in these quotes fragments seem undeveloped, almost like passing thoughts, as a wisp of smoke eventually dissipates:

Deb, I don't think this is necessarily the case.

"Frank Withers was a fragment personality of mine. He will continue, himself, to reincarnate and go his own way. Many of us leave fragment personalities as you leave children. Do you follow me?"
—Seth Speaks Chapter 11: Session 541, July 13, 1970

OK I have to admit that I've been mulling over the various stages, levels, forms that consciousness takes, and it just seems so incredibly multitudinous. Unlimited. I mean, so far there are ATI, us, probable selves, incarnations, counterparts, fragments, thought forms, etc. Anyway, I've put together a new board called Glossary of Seth Terms.

I had the idea that maybe a glossary of Seth's terminology would be useful to some, newcomers even, so I spent some time in the wee hours this morning coming up with just a few terms with Seth quotes of explanation.

My hope is that other members here will contribute to the Glossary, and I will update the Index as new topics are added. If anyone notices any errors in my posts there, please let me know, I've had a lot of distracting things going on here recently and I've been a bit Looney Tunes.

...

Quote from: transient amnesia
Hi Sena, 
Do you remember I wrote my friend Vasjra had an angry Greek women who threw dinner plates as a inner personality/or who knows what?

TA, I agree there are rare occasions on which throwing dinner plates is the right thing to do. A couple of years ago I said something to a relative of mine, and it appeared that to him what I said was metaphorically a throwing of dinner plates. Since then he has not spoken to me, but I don't regret what I said. I was not angry when I said it, but I felt that the truth needed to be stated.

Interesting film about multiple personality:

6 Souls (2010)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1179069/


The following Seth quotes are useful in understanding the film:

"Inner portions of your personality also have memory of all of your dreams. These exist simultaneously, and suspended, so to speak, like lights over a dark city, illuminating various portions of the psyche. These memory systems are all interconnected. Now in the same way you have your memory of past lives, all quite complete and all operating in the entire memory system."
—SS Chapter 19: Session 576, March 29, 1971

"Any event of your life is written in the memory of the universe, for example, as you think of it."
—NoPR Chapter 10: Session 638, February 7, 1973

Quote from: Sena on January 21, 2022, 10:10:05 AMInteresting film about multiple personality:

6 Souls (2010)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1179069/

The following Seth quotes are useful in understanding the film:

"Inner portions of your personality also have memory of all of your dreams. These exist simultaneously, and suspended, so to speak, like lights over a dark city, illuminating various portions of the psyche. These memory systems are all interconnected. Now in the same way you have your memory of past lives, all quite complete and all operating in the entire memory system."
—SS Chapter 19: Session 576, March 29, 1971

"Any event of your life is written in the memory of the universe, for example, as you think of it."
—NoPR Chapter 10: Session 638, February 7, 1973

The Augustus case may be very instructive in that regard. NoPR

Quote from: Tob on January 21, 2022, 06:12:57 PMThe Augustus case may be very instructive in that regard. NoPR

Tob, yes, that is very interesting:

"Augustus Two comes on sometimes for as long as a week at a time. He does all the things and says all the things that Augustus One would dearly love to do and say, with only certain safeguards. Augustus One, however, is not literally unconscious during this time, but quite aware of the "vicarious" activities and fulfillments. Again, it is a game of hide-and-seek, in which the so-called unconscious mind is relatively innocent. Augustus Two can therefore rant and rave, lie and cheat, assert himself, show his contempt for his fellows, and absolve Augustus One of any responsibility. You may take your break and we will continue. (10:19 to 10:30.) Now: There is nothing evil in the nature of Augustus Two. In spiritualistic circles however he would most certainly be interpreted as an evil spirit or guide. His nature is protective." (from "The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving Everyday Problems and Enriching the Life You Know (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/bHmTypP

Looks interesting Sena will take a look.

Seth does mention worlds where three consciousnesses all inhabit one physical body. I will keep looking for the quote...

I really would not like having to share my physical self with other personalities but I'm imagining there would be benefits certainly in never being lonely or feeling left out.

Quote from: Sena on January 21, 2022, 10:10:05 AMInteresting film about multiple personality:

6 Souls (2010)

Wow, the trailer gives me chills. It looks disturbing, but what a concept! I have a friend who has MPD, I didn't find out until a few years ago when she wrote a book about it. She used to babysit for my son when he was very little. I wish I'd known about it then, I would have passed on her offer—some of her alternate personalities are not fully people.

BTW I've been taking my time enjoying the Counterpart series that Larry mentioned. Alternate Earths, people existing in each are counterparts of each other but living very different lives. Great filming, great acting, great plot. Very clever.

Quote from: Deb on January 22, 2022, 12:00:01 PMI have a friend who has MPD, I didn't find out until a few years ago when she wrote a book about it.

Deb, would you have the title of the book?

The film "6 souls" does refer to the scepticism of some psychiatrists about MPD, and then moves on to fairly sensational and violent themes. The Sethian view seems to be that fragment personalites are quite common, and usually do not result in violence.

Quote from: Bora137 on January 22, 2022, 11:24:57 AMI really would not like having to share my physical self with other personalities but I'm imagining there would be benefits certainly in never being lonely or feeling left out.

Bora, it would appear that these alternate personalities are usually not conscious of one another.

Session 683:

"Other kinds of psychological gestalts have been and are being tried – some that would appear quite inconceivable to you; and yet now and then versions of them appear within your system. It is quite possible, for example, for several selves to occupy a body, and were this the norm it would be easily accepted. That implies another kind of multipersonhood, however, one actually allowing for the fulfillment of many abilities of various natures usually left unexpressed. It also implies a freedom and organization of consciousness that is unusual in your system of reality and was not chosen there"．

 ("Some people are going to hook up all of this as possession, aren't they?," I asked?)

"Not when l am finished. Most individuals, for example, develop intellectually or emotionally or physically ignoring to a large degree the body's and the mind's full potential. The limited structure that you presently identify with selfhood is simply not capable of fully using all of those characteristics. The l-structure arises from the inner self; formed about various interests, abilities, and drives. Selections are made as to the areas of concentration. You rarely find a person who is a great intellect, a great athlete, and also a person of deep emotional and spiritual understanding – an ideal prototype of what it seems mankind could produce.

In some systems of physical existence, a multipersonhood is established in which three or four 'persons' emerge from the same inner self, each one using to the best of its abilities those characteristics of its own. This presupposes a gestalt of awareness, however, in which each knows of the activities of the other, and participates (...)"

Quote from: Sena on January 22, 2022, 10:31:43 PMDeb, would you have the title of the book?

Yes, here it is: https://amazon.com/Angel-Rocked-Me-Multiple-Personality/dp/1724270346 At the time I read it, it was poorly written but I think she reworked it after her disastrous marriage a few years ago.

She was a neighbor of mine in Denver in the late 80s, and I also worked closely with her for years on a retail product she had created, so we spent a fair amount of time together. After she moved back to New Mexico she asked me to read and review her book and that was the first I'd heard of her MPD. I'm curious how I could have known her for so many years and not have a clue. I never saw any signs, her personality was always consistent considering she has "19 alternate personalities."

Quote from: Sena on January 23, 2022, 12:08:47 AMBora, it would appear that these alternate personalities are usually not conscious of one another.

There have been some people who have accused Jane as having MPD, with Seth being an alternate personality. Seth and Jane were definitely conscious of each other. With none of that silly back and forth conversation between multiple personalities that some comedians (such as Robin Williams) have acted out.

I've read some of Jane's personal journals and she wrote about Seth the same was he's presented in the books... a distinct conscious personality separate from her. I think it took her a long time to finally just accept Seth for "whatever he is" and not question it so much.

Quote from: Deb on January 23, 2022, 11:27:37 AMYes, here it is: https://amazon.com/Angel-Rocked-Me-Multiple-Personality/dp/1724270346 At the time I read it, it was poorly written but I think she reworked it after her disastrous marriage a few years ago.

Thanks, Deb. The book is on Kindle Unlimited, so I am able to read it at no extra cost.

Quote from: Deb on January 23, 2022, 11:35:09 AMThere have been some people who have accused Jane as having MPD, with Seth being an alternate personality.

Deb, Professor of Psychology Paul Cunningham gives six reasons for rejecting any psychiatric diagnosis such as MPD:

QuoteAccording to the incipient schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder hypothesis, Seth represents a psychologically repressed and dissociated part of Jane Roberts' personality that organized itself into a coherent personality (Seth) which takes possession of another part of her personality (Jane Roberts). On
this view, given a natural ability to dissociate elements of her own personality, an alternate
personality (Seth) is formed from emotionally selected elements of Jane Roberts' subconscious,
bestowed with melodramatic ability, an infallible memory, and powers of perception that are a
special case of what F. W. H. Myers termed subliminal consciousness (Myers, 1892a). The
result is a multiple personality with mediumship abilities (LeShan, 1976, p. 195).
If Seth is a secondary personality, then Jane Roberts may be expected to display symptoms
reflecting mental instability. Yet here we have a phenomenon that departs from established
characteristics of schizophrenia or dissociative identity disorder in a number of ways. First, to
all appearances, and judging by her ability to meet crises and tests of life, Jane Roberts is
splendidly integrated and shows none of the usual signs accompanying personality
disintegration. Second, here is a mass of writings, containing hundreds or thousands of words on
all kinds of subjects, showing no trace of pathological tendencies. Nor does Jane Roberts' own
creative writing contain obsessive (fixed) or compulsive (insistent) ideas of a morbid nature.
Third, Seth as Jane displays no trace of abnormal tendencies or coercion, no evidence of
excessive emotionalism or superiority complex, no smugness or sarcasm, no hatred or
prejudices, no vulgarity or tantrums, no compulsive ideation or obsessive acting out. Unlike most
dissociated personalities, Seth is morally sound. Fourth, unlike ordinary split-personalities, Seth
is not a replacement personality that takes over Jane Roberts at times of fatigue, mental
excitement, or prostration. The Seth personality does not manifest itself in reaction to stress and
no precipatory cause such as shock, strain, or marital strife precedes his appearance. Fifth, Seth
has made no demands or impositions upon either Jane or her husband. Jane Roberts possesses
self-consciousness at all times during the scheduled trance-sessions. There is no invasion in
Seth's relationship with Jane. She does not feel controlled by someone else. Her consent is
necessary at all times and she can terminate Seth sessions whenever she chooses. Sixth, Seth as
Jane displays a memory that is not the memory of a young women.

https://www2.rivier.edu/faculty/pcunningham/default.html

https://sethresearchproject.com/paul-cunningham-the-problem-with-seths-origin-and-the-rest-of-the-story/

Great quote from Paul Cunningham, thanks. I've updated Paul's topic here with a paper he recently had accepted to the "Journal of Parapsychology" (he's still trying to get someone to study Jane/Seth), along with links to his new book.

I especially appreciate this below—there are so many people who only skim over Paul's paper and automatically decide he's making a case for Seth being a scam or that Jane's mental health is suspect.

Quote from: Sena on January 24, 2022, 01:14:19 AMFirst, to all appearances, and judging by her ability to meet crises and tests of life, Jane Roberts is splendidly integrated and shows none of the usual signs accompanying personality disintegration.

Second, here is a mass of writings, containing hundreds or thousands of words on all kinds of subjects, showing no trace of pathological tendencies. Nor does Jane Roberts' own creative writing contain obsessive (fixed) or compulsive (insistent) ideas of a morbid nature.

Third, Seth as Jane displays no trace of abnormal tendencies or coercion, no evidence of excessive emotionalism or superiority complex, no smugness or sarcasm, no hatred or prejudices, no vulgarity or tantrums, no compulsive ideation or obsessive acting out. Unlike most dissociated personalities, Seth is morally sound.

Fourth, unlike ordinary split-personalities, Seth is not a replacement personality that takes over Jane Roberts at times of fatigue, mental excitement, or prostration. The Seth personality does not manifest itself in reaction to stress and no precipatory cause such as shock, strain, or marital strife precedes his appearance.

Fifth, Seth has made no demands or impositions upon either Jane or her husband. Jane Roberts possesses self-consciousness at all times during the scheduled trance-sessions. There is no invasion in Seth's relationship with Jane. She does not feel controlled by someone else. Her consent is necessary at all times and she can terminate Seth sessions whenever she chooses.

Sixth, Seth as Jane displays a memory that is not the memory of a young women.

BTW I'm also adding something to the Dr. Bernard topic that I recently found—a letter to Tam Mossman about Jane and Seth. So there's another well-educated psychology professional who was certain Seth was not a figment or fragment of Jane's personality:  "I do not believe that Jane Butts and Seth are the same person, or the same personality, or different personalities in the same person, or different facets of the same personality, etc., etc. And it is my equally firm conviction that, bright and charming as she is, Jane Butts could not consciously or unconsciously have carried on for some few hours the intensive and searching conversation which Seth generously accorded me."