~Speaking of Seth~

"When your own thoughts have a form and reality, when they have validity even in other systems of reality of which you are unaware, then it is not difficult to understand why other systems of probabilities are also affected by your own thoughts and emotions — nor why the actions of the probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions of existence." Seth Speaks, page 118

Why are the actions of the probable gods not affected by what happens in other dimensions? Does it mean that the actions are affected only by what happens in our current dimension? I would have thought that the actions are affected by both other dimensions and our current dimension.

I interpret probable gods to mean aspects of godhood that we cannot at this moment comprehend. The lack of comprehension could be because these aspects are found in other dimensions that we are not consciously aware or do not consciously perceive. (Also page 118)

Hi happiness,

For many of the Jane Roberts and Seth books, there were several different versions of the book; hard back, and several different paperbacks. Furthermore, in many of these different books, different information shows up on different pages. As a result of this, instead of giving a books page number for a quote, many of us give the chapter number and session number for the quote instead.

Could you tell us what chapter number and session number this Seth quote comes from?

Thanks

- jbseth 

Quote from: jbseth
Could you tell us what chapter number and session number this Seth quote comes from?

It is the last paragraph of chapter 14, the page before chapter 15.

happiness, it seems to me that the question of "probable gods" is clarified by this Seth quote:

"Now: The soul is not a finished product. In fact it is not a product in those terms at all, but a process of becoming. All That Is is not a product, finished or otherwise, either. There are probable gods as there are probable men; but these probable gods are all a part of what you may call the soul of, or the identity of, All That Is; even as your probable selves are all a portion of your soul or entity. The dimensions of actuality possible to All That Is of course far exceed those presently available to you. In a manner of speaking, you have created many probable gods through your own thoughts and desires. They become quite independent psychic entities, validities in other levels of existence." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: http://amzn.eu/hScvaJX

It is we humans who create "probable gods". This applies to the Christian God the Father, God the Son, the Holy Ghost, the Hindu gods Ganesh and Kali etc. In other words, all these gods are "anthropomorphic".

Quote from: happiness
It is the last paragraph of chapter 14, the page before chapter 15.

happiness, I found the quote you are referring to:

"Now it is easier perhaps for some of you to understand the simple stories and parables of beginnings of which I have spoken. But the time has come for mankind to take several steps further, to expand the nature of his own consciousness by trying to comprehend a more profound version of reality. You have outgrown the time of children's tales. When your own thoughts have a form and reality, when they have validity even in other systems of reality of which you are unaware, then it is not difficult to understand why other systems of probabilities are also affected by your own thoughts and emotions — nor why the actions of the probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions of existence." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

It seems to me that Seth is contradicting Christian doctrine here, according to which God and his Angels come from "Heaven" (meaning other dimensions). According to Seth, God and his Angels are man-made in the earthly dimension. Seth, however, also says that the probable gods "become quite independent psychic entities, validities in other levels of existence." It is true that Seth seems to be contradicting himself here. When Rob wrote down the Seth material it would be only human for him to make a few mistakes.

Hi happiness,

I think the answer to your question is located here in the Seth quote below.

This particular quote comes from Seth Speaks, Chapter 14, Session 561, and is located just 2 paragraphs up, from the paragraph you quoted in your initial post.


Seth Speaks, Chapter 14, Session 561:

"As there are portions of reality that you do not consciously perceive, and other systems of probability of which you are not consciously aware, so also are there aspects of primary godhood that you cannot at this moment comprehend. There are, therefore, probable gods, each one reflecting in its way the multidimensional aspects of a prime identity so great and dazzling that no one reality form or particular kind of existence could contain it."

-jbseth

What I couldn't understand is why probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions, even though they exist in those dimensions?

If the word "only" is inserted, then it would make more sense:
"When your own thoughts have a form and reality, when they have validity even in other systems of reality of which you are unaware, then it is not difficult to understand why other systems of probabilities are also affected by your own thoughts and emotions — nor why the actions of the probable gods are not only affected by what happens in other dimensions of existence." Seth Speaks, chapter 14, last paragraph

In other words, the gods are affected by what happens in their own dimensions (or their worshippers' dimensions) and also our dimension.

Quote from: happiness
What I couldn't understand is why probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions, even though they exist in those dimensions?

MY interpretation of the quote you presented is that while we have an effect on other realities and create probable us, gods, etc., the probable selves are then actively independent (of us) in their own realities.

Quote from: Seth
nor why the actions of the probable gods

Seth's quote says the "actions" of the probable gods are not affected. As per the quote from jbseth, each probable consciousness has it's own unique identity, so it would go on to have its own choices and actions as well.

Quote from: Seth
each one reflecting in its way the multidimensional aspects of a prime identity so great and dazzling that no one reality form or particular kind of existence could contain it."

@jbseth thanks also for the reminder of providing session numbers for quotes. Definitely with the different formats of the books, such as print (old books, new books, hardbound, paperback) or Kindle, page numbers are unreliable. I found the quote from the beginning of this thread in my 1994 softcover book as Session 561, 11/25/70, at page 209, 3 pages before Chapter 15!

And context is very important for interpreting any quote when dealing with anything, not just Seth. Or maybe especially Seth, since some things are less clear than others.

What I couldn't understand is why probable gods are not affected by what happens in their own realities, but are instead affected by what happens in our reality.

Our gods exist in our reality, so they are affected by what happens in our reality.
Probable gods exist in probable realities, but yet they are not affected by what happens in their own realities. (Probable realities are those parallel realities that are not actualised in our version of reality, those that actualise in their own versions the choices we did not select.)

In this case, there would be an inconsistency in the nature of our reality vs that of probable realities.

Hi happiness,

Here's what I'm wondering.

First Seth tells us that there are, "aspects of primary godhood that you cannot at this moment comprehend."

Then later he tells us that, "the actions of the probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions of existence."

Given this then, I'm not sure that your question below from reply #6, is even answerable.

"What I couldn't understand is why probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions, even though they exist in those dimensions?"

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
First Seth tells us that there are, "aspects of primary godhood that you cannot at this moment comprehend."

Yes, this I understand. A god in another reality could have some ability that I could not now comprehend, possibly because his reality (or his worshipper's reality) is too different from ours, and so we lack the familiarity necessary for comprehension.

Quote from: jbseth
Then later he tells us that, "the actions of the probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions of existence."

But it is still natural that the god there (over at that alien reality) based his actions on what happens in his reality (or his worshippers' reality), and not based solely on what happens in our reality. After all, he is their god (the god of the people in that alien reality) and not ours. For example, the Lumanians are physically weak, and so their god is physically strong, who would therefore protect them since they could not protect themselves (Seth Speaks, chapter 15, paragraph 27).

Yet, the following sentence

Quote from: jbseth
Then later he tells us that, "the actions of the probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions of existence."

seems to suggest that the Lumanians' god does not protect them, but protect us instead, since "our thoughts have validity even in their reality".

Hi happiness,

There are several other places within the vast Seth information where Seth actually talks about some other types of realities that exist within the vastness of All That Is.

Some of these are very different from what we think of as physical reality. In one of The Early Session books, Book 3 I think, he talks extensively about the "Electric" reality. This reality is nothing like what we think of as a physical world reality.

Then somewhere else, I don't remember now where, maybe in Seth Speaks, he talks about other types of realities that exist. Such as (and don't quote me here) there are physical realities that have no probable realities. There are probable realities that have no physical reality. There are realities where neither time nor space exist.

Given all of this, in regards to Seth and his concepts about the true nature of ALL That Is, probable gods and realities, in your comments about "Is it natural that a god...", I think that you are probably confusing your own ideas about what you think is true, with those ideas that come from Seth.

In many cases over the years, I've found that what I thought, at the time, was true and what Seth says is true are not always in alignment.

- jbseth

Quote from: happiness
But it is still natural that the god there (over at that alien reality) based his actions on what happens in his reality (or his worshippers' reality), and not based solely on what happens in our reality. After all, he is their god (the god of the people in that alien reality) and not ours.

Yes! That sounds pretty good to me, he/any consciousness bases their actions on their own current reality.

Quote from: jbseth
There are several other places within the vast Seth information where Seth actually talks about some other types of realities that exist within the vastness of All That Is.

Some of these are very different from what we think of as physical reality. In one of The Early Session books, Book 3 I think, he talks extensively about the "Electric" reality. This reality is nothing like what we think of as a physical world reality.

Great points jbseth, great post! In Seth Speaks Seth mentioned there are realities that are not physical and have never been. There are alternative realities that we can't even comprehend.

"All systems of reality are not physically oriented, you see, and some are entirely unacquainted with physical form. Nor is sex, as you understand it, natural to them. Therefore I would not communicate as a male personality who has lived many physical existences, though this is a legitimate and valid portion of my identity."
—SS Chapter 2: Session 513, February 5, 1970

I have to admit that quote from Session 561 could have been written better. I'd love to be able to see Rob's hand-written notes from that, and compare it to his typed manuscript AND how it appears in the books.

Going back to the original quote:

"When your own thoughts have a form and reality, when they have validity even in other systems of reality of which you are unaware, then it is not difficult to understand why other systems of probabilities are also affected by your own thoughts and emotions — nor why the actions of the probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions of existence."
—SS Chapter 14: Session 561, November 25, 1970

To me, the part about "why the actions of probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions" means they are not affected by dimensions OTHER than (outside of) theirs. Probable selves/probable gods become individual consciousnesses in charge of their own lives. We have no control or influence over them. We or any other external realities cannot affect the actions of gods any more than we can affect the actions of each other—we each create our own reality and have free will.

Quote from: Deb
To me, the part about "why the actions of probable gods are not affected by what happens in other dimensions" means they are not affected by dimensions OTHER than (outside of) theirs. Probable selves/probable gods become individual consciousnesses in charge of their own lives. We have no control or influence over them. We or any other external realities cannot affect the actions of gods any more than we can affect the actions of each other—we each create our own reality and have free will.

That seems good until you notice that it seems to go against the first part of the quote, which says that our thoughts affect realities other than our own. So it would be natural to think that Seth, in the later part of the quote, is saying that our thoughts affect probable gods outside of our own reality too, since our thoughts could "travel" to their realities. It would make more sense if probable gods are not only affected by their own realities, instead of not affected at all by their own realities.

Quote from: happiness
That seems good until you notice that it seems to go against the first part of the quote, which says that our thoughts affect realities other than our own. So it would be natural to think that Seth, in the later part of the quote, is saying that our thoughts affect probable gods outside of our own reality too, since our thoughts could "travel" to their realities. It would make more sense if probable gods are not only affected by their own realities, instead of not affected at all by their own realities.

No doubt that quote is worded awkwardly. I don't see probable realities the same things as probable selves. To me a reality is a "thing"—a system/locale/atmosphere, while a self is an independent consciousness that is able to act.

I don't know if you've read Chapter 16 of Seth Speaks yet, but it's all about "Probable Systems, Men, and Gods". That may or not clarify things. I'm re-reading the book, am only into Chapter 7 at this point.

Hello everyone,

If I remember correctly, somewhere, Seth says -  that we ourselves are learning to become gods, as we understand them.

Provided my memory is right; that may add a useful perspective to what you're contemplating.


Happiness.
    Mik.