~Speaking of Seth~

Here's a recent two part Facebook post from @barrie Gellis explaining Seth 1, 2, 3. Cap letters were added by Barrie for emphasis. I've left in some of Barrie's comments. These posts were in response to some things Ron Card has said about the "We are Seth" dream school group he often posts about. I feel this is excellent information, as good as it gets, and seems to support my own personal interpretation of Seth 2 being a sort of oversoul to the Seth entity, and Seth 3 being once more removed. Part of the hierarchy (of sorts) that leads back eventually to ATI. So here's Barrie:

---BEGIN PART ONE OF TWO---

According to Seth, Seth 2 is to Seth, what Seth is to us. Seth 2 is so advanced that Seth has to translate for him in order for Jane to even understand ANYTHING he said. Seth even had trouble understanding Seth 2. IF there was a Seth3, and there probably is, in our terms, it would be to Seth 2 like Seth2 is to Seth, if you can follow me.

So, Seth 2 wasn't just another Seth in the line of many equal Seths we can just communicate with or communicate for or learn from in the dream state. As I said, Jane couldn't even begin to understand Seth 2 without Seth translating for Seth 2. It was only so "close" that Seth 2 could even get to Jane. He didn't simply interact with Jane or other people. He was never even physical and can barely stay in the physical realm.

Basically, Seth 2 is totally incomprehensible to us—as he or IT itself has said:
Here is some of what Seth and/or Seth 2 said about Seth and Seth 2:

Seth 2 (ESP Class, 4-20-17): "We move through systems such as yours faster than the speed of light, and so what I am saying is already a translation and, in your terms, a message left in the past of your time..."

Seth2 (ESP Class, 7-15-69): "We want you to realize that though it is hard for us to communicate, we spoke with your race before your race learned language. We gave you mental images and upon these images you learned to form the world that you know.

"WE GAVE YOU THE PATTERN BY WHICH YOUR PHYSICAL SELVES ARE FORMED. We gave you the pattern by which you learned to form your physical reality. We gave you the patterns intricate, involved and blessed from which you form the reality of each physical thing you know. The most minute cell within your brain has been made from the patterns of consciousness which we have given you. WE GAVE YOU THE PATTERN UPON WHICH YOU FORMED YOUR ENTIRE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE and the comprehension that exists within each cell, the knowledge that each cell has, the desire for organization was given by us. The entire webwork was initiated by us. We taught you to form the reality that you know."

Barrie Comments: Seth 2 taught us or gave us the "patterns of consciousness" so that we could form the "reality you know" and the "entire physical universe" in the first place. But he is NOT a part of our reality at all. From the Seth 2 POV, he understands that ALL of our physical universe is a fantasy that we see as "one indivisible reality." He is not a being, creature or entity that visits us in our dreams:

Seth 2 (ESP Class, 7-19-71) "Our perception allows us to tune into the particular fantasies that you perceive as one indivisible reality. We can perceive it, but WE CANNOT PARTICIPATE ONLY OBSERVE that which, in your terms – eons ago we helped create..."

Barrie Comments: About the term "we." It is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like the super simplified version of "we" that Ron endlessly talks about. We can't grasp Seth 2 at all and we CERTAINLY can't grasp the "we" that he refers to—which is really a bunch of energy "ITS" beyond our comprehension and they have no bodies, never did, no genders, nothing human at all.
---END ONE OF TWO---

---BEGIN PART TWO---

Seth (Session 588): "We are SOURCES of that energy from which you come...WE SEEDED YOUR UNIVERSE as you seed other realities. We do not exist in your historical terms, nor have we known physical existence...OUR EXISTENCE IS SUCH THAT COMMUNICATION MUST BE MADE BY OTHERS TO YOU. VERBAL SYMBOLS HAVE NO MEANING FOR US. OUR EXPERIENCE IS NOT TRANSLATABLE...WE PERCEIVE YOUR THOUGHTS AS LIGHTS. They form patterns. (Each syllable was so carefully and separately pronounced.) Because of the difficulties of communication, it is nearly impossible for us to explain our reality. Know only that we exist."

Barrie Comments: Here is more from Seth 2, who also uses the term "I" since neither one really fits or would make any sense to us:

Seth 2 (ESP Class, 5-28-68): "I come to you from a dimension which you neither know nor understand, and yet that dimension is a portion of all reality. I CANNOT SEE YOUR OWN CAMOUFLAGED STRUCTURES CLEARLY, I CANNOT PERCEIVE TIME, AS IT APPEARS TO YOU. I CAN ONLY TO SOME EXTENT COMMUNICATE AT THIS CHANNEL...On many occasions I transmit information to your Seth and he then gives it to you.

"To me, YOUR UNIVERSE IS PERHAPS AS A STAR MIGHT APPEAR TO YOU. I do not perceive it clearly, but when I focus upon it, then I can perceive your psychic reality and your individual intensities... I TRANSMIT INFORMATION TO SETH, WHO THEN INTERPRETS IT FOR RUBURT. THE INFORMATION THAT I HAVE WOULD NOT BE UNDERSTANDABLE TO YOU IN MY TERMS, AND THEREFORE MUST BE INTERPRETED AND TRANSLATED."

Barrie Comments: So I hope you can clearly see and understand that NOTHING RON SAYS ABOUT SETH 2 is valid or makes any sense. Seth 2 is not simply another Seth teacher like "Seth 1" is or was.

Seth 2 Continues: I have not been [a] personality acquainted with your own reality or with your system or with your dimension. Seth...is therefore in a position to translate the information which I then impart. I am not in your terms male or female...WHAT YOU EXPERIENCE AS EMOTION I EXPERIENCE IN A SORT OF MATHEMATICAL INTENSITY, AND TRANSLATE."

Barrie Comments: This is not a simple Dream Seth Faculty Member like a "Seth 1" and this is just a similar Seth 2 or other imagined Seths or a "WE ARE SETH" Seth family that Ron makes up. He pretends to understand things of which he has no real idea or concept:

Seth II (ESP Class, 1-13-70): "YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND MULTI-DIMENSIONAL PERSONALITY STRUCTURES. This does not mean that they do not exist. It is true that our reality cannot be translated in your emotional terms. Emotions, as you know of them, represent but the smallest glimmerings of our reality. WE HAVE ALWAYS WATCHED, WE ARE THE WATCHERS AND THE PROTECTORS, AND YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN ALONE. We tend you carefully as a gardener tends his beloved plants. We are concerned over your growth and your nourishment. There are developments within your own identities with which you are not presently aware. And yet we have always given you paths to understanding and have ascertained that within you some answers could be found. You are in a period of development. And we do care in a way that you cannot now understand. The answers to questions you have asked can be found if you will look inward, and they will appear in terms that you can understand. You are indeed learning to be creators – and you are already, in your terms, creators. And by the products of your creations shall you learn to see yourselves and know what you are. And through the mirror of physical reality do you see materialized the inner selves. And through your creations shall you realize your abilities and your responsibilities even as we."

Seth 2 (ESP Class, 10-14-69): "WE are involved in forming creations, realities, consciousness -- worlds beyond your comprehension. Within these, Seth as you know him is a shadow within my awareness...WE do not deal with sensory data, as you know it. WE form the realities, WE give birth to universes..."

Barrie Comments: Here is some SETH on Seth 2:

Seth (ESP Class, 10-21-69): "Now despite my gentle, good-humored remarks about the personality you call Seth II, let me tell you something: You cannot translate the dimensions of his personality. What he is cannot be translated, in your terms.

"His thoughts are not translated in those terms because you cannot rightfully call them thoughts...a thought to him is a creative experience. What he thinks immediately is...He is vast. I am old, but he is vast.

"Ruburt mentioned something earlier about a 'Saturday afternoon.' Unfortunately, your world would fit in one of his Saturday afternoons – if he knew what a Saturday afternoon was.

"However, his energy is beyond my knowledge and his creativity is beyond my knowledge. I will not grow into what he is -- we have our own ways to follow...some of my energy, you see, also comes from him...I have always dealt with emotion, BUT HE DEALS WITH THOSE REALITIES THAT MAKE EMOTIONS POSSIBLE.

"There is also a large effort made when he speaks through Ruburt and an effort on his part. He knows a portion of him is filtering down into this room. Now, when the sun shines and the rays fall from the sun down through your solar system, the sun is not consciously aware of its rays nor of the rooms that these rays may illuminate.

"This "other personality" is aware that a part of himself is filtering down, and in his own way he is aware of you and of the room. But HE IS NOT AWARE OF YOU AS YOU KNOW YOURSELVES, AND HE IS SCARCELY AWARE OF ME AS I KNOW MYSELF. He is aware of me, but in another context, and in another dimension of existence."
---END TWO OF TWO---

Quote from: Deb
Barrie Comments: So I hope you can clearly see and understand that NOTHING RON SAYS ABOUT SETH 2 is valid or makes any sense. Seth 2 is not simply another Seth teacher like "Seth 1" is or was.

Seth 2 Continues: I have not been [a] personality acquainted with your own reality or with your system or with your dimension. Seth...is therefore in a position to translate the information which I then impart. I am not in your terms male or female...WHAT YOU EXPERIENCE AS EMOTION I EXPERIENCE IN A SORT OF MATHEMATICAL INTENSITY, AND TRANSLATE.

"Barrie Comments: This is not a simple Dream Seth Faculty Member like a "Seth 1" and this is just a similar Seth 2 or other imagined Seths or a "WE ARE SETH" Seth family that Ron makes up. He pretends to understand things of which he has no real idea or concept:

Hi Deb,

I'm not on Facebook and so I don't know what's taking place in this conversation between Barrie and Ron Card. However, it appears to me that Barrie is making some less than pleasant comments about Ron Card and his beliefs.  Am I reading this right?

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
it appears to me that Barrie is making some less than pleasant comments about Ron Card and his beliefs.  Am I reading this right?

Yes, that's right. But that has little to do with my post. Barrie was one of the original New York Boys. Barrie is more about what Seth said, Ron is more about Ron. My reason behind posting this is more about the quality of Barrie's post than his reaction to Ron.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

I don't really know anything about Ron Card but, for some reason, I thought that he was a member of Jane's ESP class.

Given that, I thought it was rather odd that Ron and Barrie would be having such a difference in opinion about what Seth had to say about Seth 1, Seth 2, etc.

That's all I was wondering about.

- jbseth

Ron was not a member of the Seth classes.

He was a reader at the time, has purchased a lot of the memorabilia (the Ouija board, Ron's painting of Seth, the coffee table, Jane's rocker and more) and has a huge following on Facebook. He talks a lot about his nightly attendance of his dream-state Seth University and being a member of the "We Are Seth" dream team.

While he has a lot of good insights into the Seth material, he does stir purists up quite a bit because he also tends to interpret Seth's teachings beyond what Seth said.

Hi Deb,

Thanks Deb.

I didn't know that about Ron.

Given that then, I can see why Barrie might have been frustrated with the situation and why he and Ron may have had some differences in their beliefs about Seth.

-jbseth

The early disputes between Ron and others, on Facebook, I reckon would have made Seth cringe.

great times....

Quote from: LenKop
The early disputes between Ron and others, on Facebook, I reckon would have made Seth cringe.

great times....

No kidding. I see some things going on between the Seth community members on Facebook (even those closely related to Seth/Jane) that are just appalling and make ME cringe, lol. 

BTW reading the quotes about Seth 2 again makes me think that Seth 2 could even be a conscious direct part of ATI, who I suppose is the ultimate entity.