~Speaking of Seth~

Hi All,

In all the talk about the coronavirus, one of the issues that's being talked about is the development of a vaccine. In his Mass Events book, NOME, Seth has some interesting things to say about "inoculations". As a result of this, I thought I'd pull these Seth comments together here, so that we could all take a look at what Seth has to say about this topic.

Immediately below I've paraphrased some of Seth's comments about inoculations. Further down I've created spoilers that contain the actual comments by Seth.



People will die when they are ready to, following inner dictates and dynamics. A person ready to die will, despite any medication. A person who wants to live will seize upon the tiniest hope, and respond. The dynamics of health have nothing to do with inoculations. They reside in the consciousness of each being."

After receiving an inoculation, the body is exerted to use its immune system to the utmost, and sometimes, according to the inoculation, it is overextended under such conditions.

There is a difference between a virus produced in the laboratory and one that inhabits the body — a difference that is recognized by the body but not by your laboratory instruments.

Inoculations often set up reactions that bring about the side effects that would occur if the inoculated disease itself had in fact been suffered.

The disease that was injected into a body during an inoculation, has its effects on other portions of the body as well. This has not been studied, nor is it even known. There are also cases where alterations occur after an inoculation, so that for a while people actually become carriers of diseases, and can infect others.

For people who believe in inoculations, the procedure consisting of getting an inoculation to build up an immunity to a disease might work quite well for those who believe in it. It is, however, the belief, and not the procedure itself, that works.

You cannot be inoculated with the desire to live. If you have decided to die, having been inoculated from one disease, you will promptly come down with another, or have an accident. The immunization, while effective, may only reinforce prior beliefs about the body's inability to avoid being killed by some disease.

There are individuals who very rarely get ill whether or not they are inoculated, and who are not sensitive in the health area. I am not implying, therefore, that all people react negatively to inoculations.

In the most basic of terms, however, inoculations do no good.

In Note 4 of Session 814, Rob says that Seth's statements in this session referred to a situation that occurred as a result of swine flu inoculations given to people here in the US, in 1976. According to Rob's notes, in the 1976 swine flu inoculations were given to many people in the US.  A tiny proportion of those who received the shots came down with the paralyzing Guillain-Barre syndrome.  Afterwards, a number of scientists, working both in and outside of government, agreed that the flu shots triggered the Guillain-Barre syndrome, but that the reasons for such reactions in certain individuals are unknown.











-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Inoculations often set up reactions that bring about the side effects that would occur if the inoculated disease itself had in fact been suffered.

jbseth, the alternative to inoculation is herd immunity. So I hope lockdowns will be lifted in the next 2 to 3 weeks.

Quote from: Sena
jbseth, the alternative to inoculation is herd immunity. So I hope lockdowns will be lifted in the next 2 to 3 weeks.

Herd immunity would eventually happen, but there is a danger to rushing it. Clearly, our medical workers, without adequate protection and supplies, would be overwhelmed. The more we "flatten the curve", the more we will know about how to deal with the illness, and the more likely we can handle those who get ill without the shortages. Lifting the lockdowns needs to be gradual and strategic, even experimental. Every day that goes by adds a more complete knowledge of what works and what doesn't. With most countries and all states dealing with the pandemic a little differently, we can watch the trends that seem to be working. But very few areas are anywhere near back to normal, so we need to watch carefully places like Sweden and S. Dakota where they were slow to lock things down in deference to "freedom" and now seem to be paying the price in the short term.

Of all the Seth materials, I have some distrust of much of what he says about vaccines. It is clear that Rob (and probably also Jane) had beliefs that were anti-inoculation. This may be an example of distorted information, which Seth acknowledged sometimes happened due to Jane's beliefs. For instance, contrary to the channeled material, after you are vaccinated with an inactive virus, you can't then pass that virus on to someone else. That just doesn't make sense.

Quote from: LarryH
Lifting the lockdowns needs to be gradual and strategic, even experimental.

It will be interesting to watch Denmark:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52291326

"Children up to the age of 11 are returning to nurseries and schools across Denmark, as the government becomes the first in Europe to relax coronavirus restrictions on education.

Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen welcomed children as they went back to school in the capital Copenhagen.

Denmark was among the first countries in Europe to impose a lockdown, with schools closed on 12 March.

Infection rates have been low but critics warn the strategy is risky.

"We're all a bit nervous and we'll have to ensure that we stick to hygiene rules," Elisa Rimpler of the BUPL, the Danish Union of Early Childhood and Youth Educators, told the BBC.""

Quote from: Seth
There is a difference between a virus produced in the laboratory and one that inhabits the body — a difference that is recognized by the body but not by your laboratory instruments.

I thought that was an interesting thing Seth brought up, viruses produced in a laboratory, considering the questions about the origin of this virus.

It makes sense lockdowns would have to be gradual, and I think herd immunity is already in effect to a degree—people who were not "sick" with this virus are testing positive for antibodies. I'd like to know more about the cases of re-infection though, I don't think I've heard about that happening with other viral illnesses (measles, mumps, etc.), only with viruses that mutate. Yet it's hard to know what I read is accurate and what's is not, things keep changing.

Quote from: LarryH
Of all the Seth materials, I have some distrust of much of what he says about vaccines. It is clear that Rob (and probably also Jane) had beliefs that were anti-inoculation. This may be an example of distorted information, which Seth acknowledged sometimes happened due to Jane's beliefs. For instance, contrary to the channeled material, after you are vaccinated with an inactive virus, you can't then pass that virus on to someone else. That just doesn't make sense.

Hard to know what's distorted in the materials beyond the religious material. I wonder if the Cutter incident with Salk's polio vaccine had any bearing on their mistrust of vaccines? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories :

"In what became known as the Cutter incident, some lots of the Cutter vaccine—despite passing required safety tests—contained live polio virus in what was supposed to be an inactivated-virus vaccine. Cutter withdrew its vaccine from the market on April 27 after vaccine-associated cases were reported.

"The mistake produced 120,000 doses of polio vaccine that contained live polio virus. Of children who received the vaccine, 40,000 developed abortive poliomyelitis (a form of the disease that does not involve the central nervous system), 56 developed paralytic poliomyelitis—and of these, five children died from polio.[2] The exposures led to an epidemic of polio in the families and communities of the affected children, resulting in a further 113 people paralyzed and 5 deaths.[3]"

Quote from: Sena
It will be interesting to watch Denmark:

I think the whole world is watching everyone else to see what works and what doeesn't. So much is unknown.

Quote from: LarryH
Of all the Seth materials, I have some distrust of much of what he says about vaccines. It is clear that Rob (and probably also Jane) had beliefs that were anti-inoculation. This may be an example of distorted information, which Seth acknowledged sometimes happened due to Jane's beliefs. For instance, contrary to the channeled material, after you are vaccinated with an inactive virus, you can't then pass that virus on to someone else. That just doesn't make sense.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

In regards to Rob's issues with inoculations, in my spoiler for Session 801, I've recorded Note 4 of that session. In this note, Note 4, Rob writes, "I'm especially interested in Seth's material on inoculations, since on two separate occasions I underwent severe physical reactions after receiving them. Jane has also had some unfavorable experiences with inoculations. "

I suspect that it may have been the severe physical reactions that Rob had to inoculations, on 2 separate occasions, that probably had a lot to do with why Rob had issues with inoculations.



In regards to your statement:

"after you are vaccinated with an inactive virus, you can't then pass that virus on to someone else. That just doesn't make sense." 

I agree that what you are saying here appears to be how things operate, given our present medical / scientific communities understanding of illnesses, viruses and inoculations.  However, I'm also pretty sure that we don't presently know or understand everything there is to know about these subjects.  Perhaps someday in the future, when we know a lot more about these subjects, it "may" turn out that what Seth has been saying here, turns out to be true.

Have you considered that possibility?


- jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Perhaps someday in the future, when we know a lot more about these subjects, it "may" turn out that what Seth has been saying here, turns out to be true.

Have you considered that possibility?

Yes, of course. It is not uncommon for scientific knowledge to turn out to be wrong. It is also not uncommon for channeled material to be distorted due to the channeler's beliefs, and Seth admits that. I suspect that the material is largely correct, but this is an area where I question some of the material.

Quote from: Deb
Hard to know what's distorted in the materials beyond the religious material. I wonder if the Cutter incident with Salk's polio vaccine had any bearing on their mistrust of vaccines? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories :

"In what became known as the Cutter incident, some lots of the Cutter vaccine—despite passing required safety tests—contained live polio virus in what was supposed to be an inactivated-virus vaccine. Cutter withdrew its vaccine from the market on April 27 after vaccine-associated cases were reported.

Deb, if vaccines are developed in a hurry, there is a real danger of something nasty happening. The Chinese claim to already have a vaccine. I think Bill Gates is right about the 18-month time scale, but even then I am not having it.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Yes, between: 1) what Seth has to say, 2) what Deb shared with us about regarding the "Cutter" incident and what Rob shared in his notes about the swine flu / Guillain–Barré syndrome situation, theres a lot to consider when thinking about any pending coronavirus vaccine.

Here's a website I found on this swine flu / Guillain–Barré syndrome. This Guillain–Barré syndrome doesn't sound like anything that I'd want to experience.


https://www.livescience.com/21504-swine-flu-vaccine-nerve-disorder-gbs.html

-jbseth 

Quote from: jbseth
This Guillain–Barré syndrome doesn't sound like anything that I'd want to experience.

jbseth, Guillain–Barré syndrome is a rare consequence of vaccination, but I certainly don't want to get it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6010361/

"A very small fraction of people can develop Guillain–Barre syndrome due to vaccines and vaccinations like a meningococcal vaccine, poliovirus vaccine, influenza vaccine, and rabies vaccine."
"Guillain–Barre syndrome is a rare fatal autoimmune disease."

The tuberculosis vaccine is being touted as a promising treatment for C19. It is not used in the states much because of the low risk of getting TB here as well as side effects. But it has apparently shown early promise in results on 250 C19 patients. The pandemic also is not as widespread in areas of the world where the TB vaccine is in widespread use, though there may be other reasons for this.

Quote from: LarryH
The pandemic also is not as widespread in areas of the world where the TB vaccine is in widespread use, though there may be other reasons for this.

Larry, yes, there is some evidence that BCG vaccine (for TB) gives some protection against coronavirus. I wonder what Seth would have said.

BCG is a somewhat unusual kind of vaccine: "The vaccine was originally developed from Mycobacterium bovis, which is commonly found in cows. While it has been weakened, it is still live."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine

Quote from: LarryH
The tuberculosis vaccine is being touted as a promising treatment for C19. It is not used in the states much because of the low risk of getting TB here as well as side effects.

Hi All,

Wow, its all starting to sound like some massive set of trade-offs.

Do I want CV19 vaccine or risk getting CV19 and what about potentially passing it on to my loved ones?

Do I want to risk CV-19 or take the hydro.. quinine (I don't recall its exact name) and risk its potential health scenarios?

Do I want to risk CV-19 or take TB vaccine and risk getting TB?


I like Seth's ideas much better: 

- You Create Your Reality. 

- Desire, Expectation, Intent, Imagination and Emotions are powerful tools of Reality Creation.

- The Point of Power is in the Present.

- Focus on the Positive, because what you focus on, you draw to you.

- Framework 2 is geared toward the positive.

- Nobody dies who does not want to die.

- Nobody gets sick who does not draw that experience to them for some purpose.


jbseth

Seth did have a lot to say about vaccines, medicine, side effects, and of course beliefs.

Doctors/researchers are trying a few different treatments (and the TB vaccine, probably others) to see what is effective. I even heard Ivermectin was helpful! Which is a little scary, because it can be purchased in any feed store, no prescription needed.

Surprisingly (to me) a few different treatments show promise.

Any chance the placebo effect could be at work? If to apply Seth here, it would be the beliefs of both the doctor and the patient.

"This does not mean that I am asking parents to substitute imaginary medicine for real medicine, though indeed, I repeat, it may be quite as effective. In your society, however, it would be almost impossible to get along without medicine or medical science."
—WTH Chapter 7: May 18, 1984

These sound like what we call herd immunity:

"A person "cured" of bad symptoms then through conventional medicine might actually be interrupting a natural movement toward a larger overall health, by dismissing the particular annoying symptoms that serve as chosen reference points."
—TPS3 Deleted Session August 11, 1975

"Many viruses inherently capable of causing death, in normal conditions contribute to the overall health of the body, existing side by side as it were with other viruses, each contributing quite necessary activities that maintain bodily equilibrium."
—NoME Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977

I came across this from UR1, I thought it was interesting. Seth talking about society's reliance and belief on "modern medicine." Sounds like he's describing Dr. Hsu as the "complete physician."

Quote from: Deb
"Many viruses inherently capable of causing death, in normal conditions contribute to the overall health of the body, existing side by side as it were with other viruses, each contributing quite necessary activities that maintain bodily equilibrium."
—NoME Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977

Deb, Seth made a number of specific statements about viruses, which may or may not apply to bacteria such as the TB bacterium.

The Wikipedia article on BCG says that it was first tried on humans in 1921. So it has been around for nealy a 100 years and we know the pros and cons. A new vaccine for Covid19 would be much more risky.

Quote from: jbseth
Do I want to risk CV-19 or take TB vaccine and risk getting TB?

jbseth, I am not aware of a medical recommendation that you should get the TB vaccine NOW to prevent coronavirus. It is just an observation that those who have had TB vaccination in the past appear to get a milder illness with coronavirus.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Deb, Thanks for posting that spoiler on Session 704. 

The information that Seth talks about in that session, lines up exactly with what I was thinking when I mentioned that I liked Seth's ideas better.

- jbseth

How did they make the Covid 19 vaccine so quickly?

https://www.davidicke.com/article/568702/vaccine-begin-trials-says-health-secretary-something-normally-take-years

Quote from: Sena
How did they make the Covid 19 vaccine so quickly?

This is just going into clinical trials, which would normally take months. They won't know if they "made" a Covid 19 vaccine until they are done with the trials. There will probably be 100 more like this who are just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Regulatory approval will undoubtedly be on a fast track for anything that gets through clinical trials showing effectiveness and with minimal side effects. This is outside the U.S., but I know that in the U.S., if you want FDA approval, you have to wait in line. But with the pandemic, probably these programs will take priority.