~Speaking of Seth~

Quote from: Deb
So, he has mentioned a couple of times lately that there has not been one case of covid at the nursing home. The local hospitals have been pretty much closed—no cases of the virus, of course no elective surgeries...

My guess is that with the shortage of protective equipment, the country did not want them used up for elective surgeries. You would think that it would not be that hard to solve that problem, as the equipment is fairly low-tech. In my area, elective surgeries have been OK'd. Restaurants are opening at 25% capacity. Nursing homes in Florida as well as other states are where many of the cases of both residents and employees have occurred. Two nursing homes in the county have multiple cases. My mother is in a senior care facility 6 miles away, and I have not seen her for about 6 or 7 weeks, per state directives. Normally, residents are in a large room together and dine together, but twice now, an employee has shown symptoms, and the residents are then confined to their rooms until the employee is tested negative. My county has three hospitals, one VA and two large regional hospitals. Officially, there have been 59 covid hospitalizations and only 5 deaths in the county. But an acquaintance emailed me that a nurse at one of those hospitals said that her hospital alone has had 13 covid deaths. My acquaintance concluded that "the state is lying to us," but I said it's possible that these major hospitals are  serving patients from outside the county, and that many of those alleged deaths may be residents of other counties and thus counted as deaths in those counties. Then today, another friend said that the county had had 40 covid deaths, though when I asked, she could not find the link to her source. Some good news, though - I had reported here that my last project manager had the virus, but that turned out to be false info. So I'm back to not knowing anybody with the virus.

Quote from: Deb
Tonight my next door neighbors are having a party of sorts.

Deb, you are lucky that you are allowed to have parties. Parties are not allowed in the U.K. at least for another 3 weeks.

Quote from: LarryH
Related to belief and hypnosis about our diets, I have often wondered about the current gluten-free craze. It seems that among my acquaintances who are oriented toward metaphysics, they tend to be more likely to be gluten-intolerant. It's as if it's the cool thing to be. Outside of that group, I know almost nobody who claims gluten-intolerance.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,
I've often wondered about the same thing, not only about the gluten-free diets but in regards to many of the other diets as well. Often it seems to me that these are just the latest food fad, type of things that are going on for people. Specifically, given what Seth said below in S660.  (Seth's comment are in red font but I used blue font to emphasize some of his important statements.)



NOPR, Ch 16, S660
You are what you think, not what you eat — and to a large extent what you think about what you eat is far more important.

What you think about your body, health, and illness will determine how your food is used, and how your chemistry handles fats, for instance, or carbohydrates. Your attitudes in preparing meals are highly important.

Physically, it is true, but again generally speaking, that your body needs certain nourishments. But within that pattern there is great leeway, and the organism itself has the amazing capacity to make use of substitutes and alternates. The best diet in the world, by anyone's standards, will not keep you healthy if you have a belief in illness.

A belief in health can help you utilize a "poor" diet to an amazing degree.



And in this same session, he also says the following, which makes me wonder about the various diets over the years; are they just the latest "food fads"?



Now: Generally speaking, those who advocate health foods or natural foods subscribe to some of the same overall beliefs held by your physicians.

They believe that diseases are the result of exterior conditions. Quite simply, their policy can be read: "You are what you eat." Some in this group also subscribe to philosophical ideas that somewhat moderate those concepts, recognizing the importance of the mind. Often though, some strong suggestions of a very negative character are given, so that all foods except certain accepted ones are seen as bad for the body, and the cause of diseases. People become afraid of the food they eat, and the field of eating then becomes the arena.

Moral values become attached to food, with some seen as good and some as bad. Symptoms appear, and are quite directly considered to be the natural result of ingesting foods on the forbidden list.




Then, along with this, I recently came across this Seth statement about vitamins in TES9 Session 422. I wonder how many people have ever even considered that this is a possibility?


Now. Physical illness is not a natural condition. It also necessitates additional work of this same sort, hence often the physical vitamin deficiencies that occur. In many cases they do not cause a disease, but are the result of it.



In the past, I know that some people were taking large doses of vitamin "C" in order to "prevent" a cold.  I often wonder whether it was the "belief" that large doses of vitamin C could prevent a cold, that actually worked here.

Perhaps what we should do instead is, for example, maintain a "belief" that health is a natural state of your body. Then, if you get a cold, take vitamin C at that time, to replenish the loss in vitamins that may occur as a result of the cold.


-jbseth

Quote from: LarryH
My acquaintance concluded that "the state is lying to us," but I said it's possible that these major hospitals are  serving patients from outside the county, and that many of those alleged deaths may be residents of other counties and thus counted as deaths in those counties. Then today, another friend said that the county had had 40 covid deaths, though when I asked, she could not find the link to her source. Some good news, though - I had reported here that my last project manager had the virus, but that turned out to be false info. So I'm back to not knowing anybody with the virus.

Great news about your not knowing anyone with the virus. It's been a little frustrating to me that information has been so unreliable. I've read articles about things related to the virus and when I want to go back and read them again, they are gone without a trace. The amount of inaccuracies in information is astounding to me and has been scaring the public. But fear sells. There's a social control aspect too—people who are frightened are more likely to voluntarily follow the restrictions and guidelines and put pressure on peers.

Quote from: Sena
Deb, you are lucky that you are allowed to have parties. Parties are not allowed in the U.K. at least for another 3 weeks.

Sena, we are not allowed to have parties either. They also had it in their front yard—maybe so the young children could play in our cul du sac. Or maybe they were flaunting their defiance of the restrictions, as they have a large back yard and could have easily congregated there. Nonconformists? They had chairs and small tables set up on the driveway, properly socially distanced.

I thought this YT on fear was interesting. I'm not saying the virus is just one elaborate fear campaign, I realize it's real and it's worldwide—world governments could never cooperate in a way to pull off something this widespread. But the fear factor is something to keep in the back of the mind. The next YT, The Psychology of Conformity, was also very good and touches on the fear of death. There's a quote at the end from Nietzsche that stood out to me, it reminded what Seth said about our uniqueness, "In each of you resides a uniqueness that is never recaptured, no matter how many times you are reincarnated."

Nietzsche: "In his heart every man knows quite well that, being unique, he will be in the world only once and that there will be no second chance for his oneness to coalesce from the strangely variegated assortment that he is"

And maybe all those people "with" gluten issues are conformists.

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,

The whole vitamin C thing puzzles me some too. It's recommended for so many things. I was thinking a bit ago, how or where did the species get so deficient in Vit C that's it's recommended to take daily, and x2 or x3 in cold and flu season

When this started I upped my c. I usually take one after going out shopping. Otherwise, occasionally.
The only 2 supplements I try to take daily are cell salts, and Spirulina. I will take a Centrum daily for awhile and then stop for awhile, and then just occasionally when I feel like it.
Cell salts allow vitamins to be processed by the body. The way it was explained to me, if you don't take them, then take vitamins, the body won't recognize or use the vitamin.

I don't get the gluten thing either. I just don't eat bread much. I do like deli sandwiches at times.
The mass produced stuff has so many weird chemical additives in it.

Hi Deb,

I've been subbed to Academy of Ideas for awhile. They have some good vids!

Subscribed to Academy of Ideas!

So, this is the kind of stuff that drives me a little batty (pardon the pun). Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, wear a mask or else you are endangering others' lives, don't wear a mask, you're endangering your own life... 

https://www.newsmax.com/us/surgeon-general-adams-masks/2020/03/31/id/960679

What I got from that article was, wear a mask if you feel safer, don't touch your face while wearing a mask, and don't use a mask as an excuse to get too close to people.

What I did not get from the article was, wear a mask in case you are an asymptomatic carrier, and wear a mask to help others around you feel safer.

Deb, if you were confused before, contrary to the article that you linked above, the CDC website https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html says in part:

"CDC continues to study the spread and effects of the novel coronavirus across the United States.  We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms ("asymptomatic") and that even those who eventually develop symptoms ("pre-symptomatic") can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms.  This means that the virus can spread between people interacting in close proximity—for example, speaking, coughing, or sneezing—even if those people are not exhibiting symptoms.  In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission."

Then below that is a video of the guy that your article claims to be against wearing a face mask, but in the video, he is demonstrating how to make a face mask!

Quote from: LarryH
Then below that is a video of the guy that your article claims to be against wearing a face mask, but in the video, he is demonstrating how to make a face mask!

Yep, that was him a couple of months ago or so demonstrating how to made a "face covering" out of various household items. My "old t-shirts" are like sieves.

I just went to Walmart and they have a sign out front saying due to "state and local mandates" all customers are required to wear a face covering in the store, so no decision to make there—no mask, no entry. There was a bouncer at the entrance.

But then my grocery story does not require masks, although most of the public have been wearing them just to keep the peace. Employees are required to, but I've noticed that a lot of them pull the mask down to their chin in order to talk. 

I keep a bottle of "disinfectant" (Everclear + aloe gel from my plant) in the car, and use it on my hands and also rub some on the mask. Can't hurt. I just don't want to get pulled over and try to explain why I smell like liquor. 

Quote from: Deb
I just went to Walmart and they have a sign out front saying due to "state and local mandates" all customers are required to wear a face covering in the store, so no decision to make there—no mask, no entry. There was a bouncer at the entrance.

Deb, hospital staff do need to wear air-filtering masks to keep safe. Compelling the general public to wear useless masks is designed to increase fear and anxiety.

Quote from: Sena
Compelling the general public to wear useless masks is designed to increase fear and anxiety.

Sena, are you saying that masks do not help in reducing the spread of airborne virus from coughs, sneezes, and breath from infected people? Are you saying that the medical and scientific personnel who recommend using masks in public want to increase fear and anxiety as opposed to helping people to be safer in public? Why would they do that?

Quote from: LarryH
Why would they do that?

Larry, probably for the same reason that you are trying to spread fear.
Why is it that the majority of people with Covid 19 recover from it, and a small percentage dies? It is likely that fear is a factor.

("All viruses of any kind are important to the stability of your planetary
life. They are a part of the planet's biological heritage and memory. You
cannot eradicate a virus, though at any given time you destroy every member
alive of any given strain. They exist in the earth's memory, to be recreated,
as they were before, whenever the need arises.)"

(The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events, p.183)

Quote from: Sena
Larry, probably for the same reason that you are trying to spread fear.

Since I am not trying to spread fear, your statement does not answer my questions. But maybe you don't have an answer or evidence for your claims. The predominance of my virus-related postings here fall under the following categories:

-Posting inspiring and uplifting humor-based links (in the Laughter is the best medicine category)
-Suggesting the positives and asking others to suggest positives that can come out of this mass event
-Debating the effectiveness of various policies around the world based on outcomes, math, and logic

The first two are more in line with a Sethian context, although the third is not anti-Sethian, as Seth does not suggest burying one's head in the sand regarding the realities of world events. It is Sethian to take scientific and medical advice with a grain of salt, but that is not an excuse to utterly dismiss such advice, given especially that most people in the world are not Seth readers.

"It's not a decision to try to protect [one] from getting coronavirus," according to CDC director Robert Redfield. "It's to help modify spreading. And there is scientific data to show that when you aerosolized virus through a cloth barrier, you have a reduction in the amount of virus that gets through the other side."[quote="
Why is it that the majority of people with Covid 19 recover from it, and a small percentage dies? It is likely that fear is a factor.
[/quote]

Fear of death once they have the disease? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. When experts encourage the use of masks in public, is that making those who have the disease more afraid and thus more likely to die? Just trying to follow your logic path.

Hi All,


The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public. Article date May 21 2012
https://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5

The newest version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes an amendment that would legalize the use of propaganda on the American public, reports Michael Hastings of BuzzFeed.
The amendment — proposed by Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) and Adam Smith (D-Wash.) and passed in the House last Friday afternoon — would effectively nullify the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbids information and psychological operations aimed at influencing U.S. public opinion.


Tuskegee Airmen
https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

The study initially involved 600 black men – 399 with syphilis, 201 who did not have the disease. The study was conducted without the benefit of patients' informed consent. Researchers told the men they were being treated for "bad blood," a local term used to describe several ailments, including syphilis, anemia, and fatigue. In truth, they did not receive the proper treatment needed to cure their illness. In exchange for taking part in the study, the men received free medical exams, free meals, and burial insurance. Although originally projected to last 6 months, the study actually went on for 40 years.


One good thing I see coming out of this is many people starting to question what their governments, and agencies throw at them!



0-2:33
Italian prime minister disputing the official narrative, lies as he calls them, with the Italian president in Parliament.
President of Tanzania exposing testing inaccuracies of cv19

Joseph Goebbels:

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

T.M., your video claims governments have colluded to control us with lies. Meanwhile, the most prominent representative of the U.S. government is encouraging armed protests within states, while minimizing the effects of the virus and constantly contradicting the medical experts. Meanwhile, due to the lax attitude at the top, the White House now has two cases, people who have been in contact with the president and the VP. So the U.S. government is not among those who have "colluded", except for, I guess, health officials. To what end are the health officials following Nazi propaganda techniques as you imply in your Goebbels quote?

No matter what we feel about official guidelines, we all want the same things - freedom to interact among others without restrictions, health, a strong economy. We just differ on how to get there. This will be over, and when it is over, there will be many positive changes that were not happening quickly enough, as I have stated in the past.

Hi All,

Hi Larry,
Under the video I posted I referenced the relevant part:
"0-2:33
Italian prime minister disputing the official narrative, lies as he calls them, with the Italian president in Parliament.
President of Tanzania exposing testing inaccuracies of cv19"

Where did I attribute the quote from Goebbels to anyone.?

Quote from: T.M.
Where did I attribute the quote from Goebbels to anyone.?

You posted a Goebbels quote. The implication of posting it is to support the idea that governments lie. I agree that governments lie. We just apparently disagree as to which part of the U.S. government is lying. Your opinion is apparently the medical officials. So what is it that the medical officials gain by lying and suggesting all these protections?

Quote from: T.M.
President of Tanzania exposing testing inaccuracies of cv19"

Yes, that's interesting. It is known that many animals carry variations of corona viruses. These may be sufficiently similar that they test positive with the tests that are intended for humans. In fact, that is one explanation for human false positives - if a human has had a cold or flu in the last year, which are also caused by corona viruses, that could trigger a false positive. We don't know which of the hundreds of test versions in the world were used in Tanzania, but we know that most of them have not been validated by regulatory agencies. So there are enough questions about this to question its credibility until we know more about it.

Hi All,

Hi Larry,

The Goebbels quote is something I think everyone should keep in mind. I'm not linking it to 1 specific government, or specifically and exclusively the U.S.

"So what is it that the medical officials gain by lying and suggesting all these protections?"

In the U.S. specifically, I think the medical officials are just repeating what they are told too by officials. 
The reason? I can only speculate. I do suspect world wide top to bottom reorganization of society and how it functions, using fear as the motivating impetus.

There's many Dr's coming out against every part of this, that aren't receiving main stream coverage. So which news source is valid?!  I don't think there is a definitive answer to that question that will make everyone happy.

Wow, wild video, especially the claims of the Italian PM, and Pres of Tanzania about the false positives. Kind of makes you wonder. Thanks for that.

Here's the third video from Dr. Jay Bhattacharya regarding the results of the antibody studies on the baseball employees around the country. Nothing earth-shattering, but he did bring up some good points about how we've handled the virus lockdowns (damed if you do, damned if you don't). He's very matter of fact, neutral, no drama. He mentions a predicted surge in TB cases and deaths in India ( huge problem there ) due to the lack of testing/treatment since the lockdowns. I'm sure there are plenty of other diseases that are getting a leg up due to the virus. I feel it would be wise to factor that type of thing into decision making, in addition to the depression, suicides and financial ruin for some people.

LA Country is considering extending the lockdown for 3 more months, while Colorado very slowly testing lightening up on restrictions, depending on the county. A restaurant in Castle Rock was open on Sunday, against restrictions. The owner said if she didn't open, she would lose her business. She just did anyway—she was shut down by the health department and I heard she lost her business license. Another case of damned/damned.

I had downloaded the audio (mp3) of the Dr Jay interview this morning so I could listen on an iPod while doing other stuff. You're welcome to download it from my Dropbox. I'll leave it up for a week or so.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5kz1i9vbpyt5po/DrJayBhattacharya.mp3?dl=0

Quote from: T.M.
One good thing I see coming out of this is many people starting to question what their governments, and agencies throw at them!

Just had to follow up. Yes, my feeling is never flat out trust the media, politicians and government agencies. I'm not into conspiracies, but I do believe in "question everything." Too much room for corruption, special interests and payoffs. Do your homework and take all news with a salt lick. Loved the guy at the end, after the alligator. At this point I'm glad I'm not 20 years old, I'm not sure how much more of this reality I can handle. "Free will is a little bit of a sin." Lol. The guy in the blue shirt is my favorite part of the video.

Is the 'cure worse than the disease?' Health stats from the Great Depression show it's not.

https://www.upworthy.com/when-people-say-the-cure-cant-be-worse-than-the-disease-ask-to-see-their-math

Deb, I watched 15 minutes of your Uncommon Knowledge interview, and I was stunned by their speculation that people who are in favor of the lockdown think that the lockdown should continue until the virus is eradicated. That's simply not true! What I and the medical experts have been saying is that we should have adequate virus and antibody testing and an effective contact tracing method in place before lifting all the guidelines. In addition, we needed to have adequate protective supplies for medical personnel before we risked another spike in cases, but I think we are close in that category, and I think the ventilator supply will be adequate. Many states are gradually opening up, though often faster than the federal guidelines would suggest. We will see how it goes.

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

Thank you for posting Dr Battacharya!  He's giving me quite a bit to think about. I will keep listening to him.
I'm not for much of anything officials suggest, (because they lie so much) even testing and contact tracing.
After listening to Dr B, I see a practicality and value in it. I still think it needs to be monitored for .gov overreach. Or as an excuse to make people who ask too many questions magically disappear!

I wish there were more politicians like the one in the vid speaking out. Or maybe they are, it's just not being covered.
People are people though. They get away with what they can. Most all populations have let their respective governments get away with more than they should. Hopefully, populations will stop doing that.

Eta: I found it very interesting the Dr mentioned most of the cases are being caught indoors. I think the power and ability of plenty of fresh air still is undervalued by today's medical society.

Quote from: T.M.
I'm not for much of anything officials suggest, (because they lie so much) even testing and contact tracing.

How can anybody be against testing and contact tracing?

Quote from: LarryH
I was stunned by their speculation that people who are in favor of the lockdown think that the lockdown should continue until the virus is eradicated. That's simply not true!

I don't have a problem with speculation, as long as it's presented as that. They were speculating that in the back of some people's heads, we can eradicate this disease if we can just stay locked down. I don't have a problem with that speculation, they presented it as such and I've heard too many people say, personally, that they are staying indoors until it's safe to come out. Not just a degree of safety, but safe, period. Unrealistic, but based in fear. Fear for what would happen to their families, children, if they die. Fear of death in general. And after hearing stories of how debilitating this virus can be, fear of getting sick.

I've heard many times in the news from a few sources that we should stay locked down until there's a vaccine, which could be 18 months to 2 years, if ever. I'm not a mind reader, but I think there are people that think vaccines completely eradicate viruses, such as with polio, MMR, etc., but which still tend to pop up once in a while. Even Seth said we can never completely eradicate a virus.

Just a quick search this morning brought up several articles mostly based on a paper published in The Lancet in early April recommending staying locked down until there is a vaccine. Also not realistic in my mind.

"Coronavirus lockdowns across the globe should not be completely lifted until a vaccine for the disease is found, according to a study based on China's outbreak published in medical journal The Lancet."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/world/lockdown-lift-vaccine-coronavirus-lancet-intl/index.html

"Lockdowns can't end until Covid-19 vaccine found, study says"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/08/lockdowns-cant-end-until-covid-19-vaccine-found-study-says

"The minister for patient safety, suicide prevention and mental health [MP Nadine Dorries] tweeted that until a Covid-19 vaccine is developed and made available to the public, society will have to "adapt" to a "full lockdown".

"In a tweet on Wednesday, she said: "Journalists should stop asking about an 'exit strategy'. There is only one way we can 'exit' full lockdown and that is when we have a vaccine."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-nadine-dories-mp-lockdown-exit-strategy-vaccine-a9468341.html

"Britain will stay in lockdown until coronavirus vaccine is found, health minister says"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/uk-will-stay-in-lockdown-until-vaccine-is-found-health-minister-says-a4415561.html

"When Governments Switched Their Story from "Flatten the Curve" to "Lockdown until Vaccine""
"The new narrative was this: the death toll will simply be too gruesome and unbearable to allow people to continue on with some semblance of an ordinary life. So, we must keep society locked down indefinitely until a vaccine is found or until there can be enough testing and tracking of infections among the entire population. Until then, only minimal "essential" activities will be allowed. This could last eighteen months, or two years, or more.

"Similarly, former presidential advisor and physician Ezekiel Emmanuel flatly stated that there is "no choice" but to stay locked down indefinitely:

"Realistically, COVID-19 will be here for the next 18 months or more. We will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine or effective medications. I know that's dreadful news to hear. How are people supposed to find work if this goes on in some form for a year and a half? Is all that economic pain worth trying to stop COVID-19? The truth is we have no choice. [emphasis added.]"
https://mises.org/wire/when-governments-switched-their-story-flatten-curve-lockdown-until-vaccine

I was curious why there was not a vaccine developed with the first round of SARs, SARS-CoV-1 and found this pretty basic article:

https://theconversation.com/the-mysterious-disappearance-of-the-first-sars-virus-and-why-we-need-a-vaccine-for-the-current-one-but-didnt-for-the-other-137583

Also, I just saw this today. I'm in the process of downloading the YouTube as an mp3 so I can listen to it today. If there's anything of value or sense in it, I'll update here.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/13/digital-vaccination-certificate.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200513Z1&et_cid=DM534038&et_rid=870764314

From the article:

QuoteBill Gates — who illegally invests in the same industries he gives charitable donations to, and who promotes a global public health agenda that benefits the companies he's invested in — has gone on record saying life will not go back to normal until we have the ability to vaccinate the entire global population against COVID-19.1

To that end, he is pushing for disease surveillance and a vaccine tracking system2 that might involve embedding vaccination records on our bodies. One example of how this might be done is using an invisible ink quantum dot tattoo, described in a December 18, 2019, Science Translational Medicine paper.3,4

According to statements made by Gates, societal and financial normalcy may never return to those who refuse vaccination, as the digital vaccination certificate Gates is pushing for might ultimately be required to go about your day-to-day life and business. Without this "digital immunity proof," you may not even be allowed to travel locally or visit certain public buildings.

Gates has a history of "predicting" global pandemics with vast numbers of deaths,5 and with his call for a tracking system to keep tabs on infected/noninfected and vaccinated/unvaccinated individuals, he's ensuring an unimaginably profitable future for the vaccine makers he supports and makes money from via his Foundation investments.

Yikes, it's starting to sound like China tracking all of its citizens via phone apps. Phone ownership is mandatory.

Thanks Deb, I had no idea that there were so many suggestions of "complete" lockdown until there was a complete solution. I am not in favor of that. Widely available testing, some method of contact tracing, and quarantining carriers seems to me the path to lifting the lockdowns, and we could get there quickly if those were prioritized. Infections would continue at a low level, but economies would begin to recover. Other countries (Taiwan, New Zealand) responded early with these techniques and have controlled the pandemic within their borders. We didn't do anything in the U.S. until it was out of control.

Quote from: Deb
"Coronavirus lockdowns across the globe should not be completely lifted until a vaccine for the disease is found, according to a study based on China's outbreak published in medical journal The Lancet."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/world/lockdown-lift-vaccine-coronavirus-lancet-intl/index.html

"Lockdowns can't end until Covid-19 vaccine found, study says"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/08/lockdowns-cant-end-until-covid-19-vaccine-found-study-says

"The minister for patient safety, suicide prevention and mental health [MP Nadine Dorries] tweeted that until a Covid-19 vaccine is developed and made available to the public, society will have to "adapt" to a "full lockdown".

Deb, thanks for the useful collection of links. Public policy in most countries has been to frighten people as much as possible, so it will not be easy to come out of lockdown.

I mentioned Taiwan and New Zealand as success stories. Another is Iceland: https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/testing-iceland-claims-major-success-covid-19-70484165They each responded rapidly with testing, contact tracing, and quarantining those who were carriers. They are each small population island nations, so it was easy to control borders or quarantine visitors. Both New Zealand and Iceland economies depend on tourism, but that was the only economic component that was seriously hurt. It is too late to go back in time and start these policies when they should have been started in countries where the virus got out of control, but it still makes sense to implement the same policies, better late than never.

"Insert image" doesn't seem to be working for me. I snipped a chart showing "Confirmed Covid-19 Deaths per Million People", comparing Sweden, the U.S., Denmark, Norway, and Finland. Contrary to popular belief, Sweden was the worst.

Sweden: ~237
U.S.: ~176
Denmark: ~74
Norway: ~37
Finland: ~37

Quote from: LarryH
Sweden: ~237

Well, well, well.

Hey, I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, and I'm also old enough to not believe everything I read or hear. I have a pretty good BS meter, which becomes refined in times of stress. With that being said, I saw these screen captures of messages on FB today, only looked at maybe a dozen of the 200+ and the theme is the same: deaths are being recorded as CV regardless of whether the patients had CV or not. Not sure what to make of this. If this gal made all of this up, my hat is off to her for her devotion and tenacity, not matter how misguided it may be. I skipped past all of the video links at the top, and clicked on the screen captures below. I looked at the poster's FB page, she seems fairly well educated (according to her), although like a lot of young people I know these days, is not using her degrees. The comments are international. These screen captures are not just from people, they are from news agencies as well.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10222005541186008&set=a.10222005538865950&type=3&theater

The page is public, so you don't need to have an account or log in to see it.

Any feelings about these?

Here's the link to the article that had that chart referenced above.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/28/21240381/coronavirus-sweden-death-rate-cases-new-york

There was another graph that I saw the other day showing an expected range of deaths in the U.S. in a normal year in a gray band (one would expect any year to be within that band) and the severe sharp spike this year overlapping in orange. As with the chart image today that I could not post, I could also not post that. But the clear implication of the graph was that it is reasonable to presume that all of the orange above the gray band is likely to be due to this virus. Deb, if hospitals here are following clear and specific guidelines on how to report cause of death. If they gain additional revenue by false reporting, they will be subject to criminal prosecution. If the reported covid-19 deaths are in line with the additional total deaths, that would indicate that hospitals are following the guidelines. We know, though, that if someone with an underlying condition and has the virus, the virus may trigger a related fatal event. It is reasonable and within the guidelines to designate the death as covid-19 related. Any gray areas of judgement would likely be rare. The point is that if there were a plunge in reported deaths from other causes at the same time as the spike in deaths from the virus, it would lead to suspicion of false reporting, so just that alone could trigger an investigation. And the gov't does go after hospitals suspected of medicare fraud.

Quote from: LarryH
The point is that if there were a plunge in reported deaths from other causes at the same time as the spike in deaths from the virus, it would lead to suspicion of false reporting, so just that alone could trigger an investigation. And the gov't does go after hospitals suspected of medicare fraud.

One of the screen captures did say something like that—the government needed to verify money was spent correctly, see attached image.

As far as embedding an image from a news article or website, you'd need to right click on the image and choose Open in New Tab. Once that opens, copy the image's link. You can then click the image tag button above the text box (under the bold B, looks like Mona Lisa?) and paste the link between the open and close img tags.

I actually prefer if people were to do that rather than attach like I'm doing, because a lot of news images are very large and most people don't have software to reduce the file size. This graph was really dimensionally large (3400 pixels wide), so I reduced the width adding width=720 (see the "code" example). You can use the Preview button to see how your image will look ahead of time. Pretty dramatic chart.

[img width=720]https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/l-VOs3M-wp-
VuCgXiLLAKDwL9rs=/0x0:3400x2400/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:3400x2400):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19932686/total_covid_deaths_per_million.png[/img]

Just had another thought. Or questions rather. The CDC guidelines for reporting coronavirus deaths says if the patient has not been tested for the virus, but has been in close proximity with someone who is infected, or shows signs of any of the symptoms, it's in the doctor's discretion to attribute the death to corona.

Do you suppose there would be blood samples saved from the deceased persons? So that if there is a question in reporting, the blood can be tested for the virus postmortem? If not, how can those deaths be investigated?

Quote from: Deb
Do you suppose there would be blood samples saved from the deceased persons? So that if there is a question in reporting, the blood can be tested for the virus postmortem? If not, how can those deaths be investigated?

I expect that some kind of evidence would be saved. It may be that testing of dead bodies is less important than testing of live ones (with limited test availability), but that it could eventually happen if samples were saved. Years ago, the HCA hospital chain was found to have committed the largest Medicare fraud in history, to the tune of over $400 billion. Obviously, there had to be evidence.

Quote from: Deb
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10222005541186008&set=a.10222005538865950&type=3&theater

The page is public, so you don't need to have an account or log in to see it.

Any feelings about these?

Deb, thanks for that link. I thought it would be worth posting the image here, as it emphaiszes that 99% of those who are said to have died from Covid 19 in Italy had "underlying conditions":

Thanks Sena, that says a lot. I wonder if the same is true of the NYC deaths? I should probably go through all 200 of those screen captures and see if it was mentioned.

This is was in this morning's news, it also made national news: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/05/14/coronavirus-montezuma-county-coroner-alcohol-poisoning-covid-death/


CORTEZ, Colo. (CBS4) – When police in Cortez, Colorado were called to Cortez City Park early on the morning of May 4, they found Sebastian Yellow, 35, lying on the ground and called it out as a code "Frank," meaning Yellow had died, according to a police report obtained by CBS4.

Within a week, local Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers determined Yellow had died of acute alcohol poisoning, his blood alcohol measured at .55, nearly twice the lethal limit. [secondary cause was cirrohsis of the liver]

But Deavers said that before he even signed the death certificate, the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment had already categorized Yellow's death as being due to COVID-19 and it was tabulated that way on the state's website.

"I can see no reason for this", said Deavers.

Yellow's death is the latest in Colorado raising eyebrows over the way the CDPHE is reclassifying deaths that runs contrary to what doctors and coroners initially ruled.

Last month, a CBS4 Investigation revealed the state health department reclassified three deaths at a Centennial nursing home as COVID-19 deaths, despite the fact attending physicians ruled all three were not related to coronavirus.

In each case, the residents had tested positive for COVID-19, but in each case, on-scene doctors ruled the deaths were not related to the virus. Still, in their official tally, the state increased the number of coronavirus deaths at the Someren Glen facility from four to seven, based on the disputed deaths.


I imagine this type of thing is not isolated to one or two small towns in one US state.

The guy who died from alcohol poisoning and cirrhosis of the liver also tested positive for the virus. It almost sounds like suicide. There is no info about what virus-related symptoms he may have been experiencing. The three others mentioned had tested positive as well. All of these followed the CDC guidelines: "The department follows the CDC's case definition of COVID-19 cases and deaths... When a person with a lab-confirmed case of COVID-19 dies, their death is automatically counted as a COVID-19 death unless there is another cause that completely rules out COVID-19 such as a fatal physical injury."

And there's this from the same article:  "However some statisticians, epidemiologists and medical experts, like Dr. Anthony Fauci, have suggested that COVID-19 deaths are likely being undercounted, not over counted. Fauci testified this week before the Senate and was asked if 80,000 deaths from COVID was accurate.

"Most of us feel that the number of deaths are likely higher than that number," said Fauci. He told the Senate, "I don't know exactly what percent higher, but almost certainly it's higher."

I'm not sure what the agenda is of focusing on the fact that most of the deaths are among those with underlying conditions. The fact is, there are far more deaths in this time frame than normal. The fact that the virus either triggers a crisis related to an underlying condition or the underlying condition compromises the immune system enough for the virus to kill them means that there are primary and secondary causes. Whether the virus is primary or secondary, the deaths are virus-related. I can only presume that when someone constantly points out the underlying conditions, they are suggesting that these deaths have nothing to do with the virus. There is probably a tiny minority of cases where that it true. So the argument is, whether it is less than 1% or "99%".

Quote from: LarryH
The guy who died from alcohol poisoning and cirrhosis of the liver also tested positive for the virus. It almost sounds like suicide. There is no info about what virus-related symptoms he may have been experiencing.

There's a lot of info about him that's not in the article, leading to more questions. If he was so sick, why would be be walking around in a park? Why not seek medical attention? Was he  homeless? Did he even know he had the virus? Many people do not have symptoms. Considering he had cirrhosis of the liver at his age (35) badly enough that it was considered a secondary cause of death, he was no stranger to drinking excessive amounts of alcohol. Death by alcohol seems to have been a long-term goal for him. At least 10 years apparently, so I doubt he was self medicating due to the virus.

"It wasn't COVID, it was alcohol toxicity," said Deavers. "Yes, he did have COVID but that is not what took his life."

Why would a coroner stick neck out and challenge the health department? To be so insistent that it was not death due to the virus? He's the one who did the autopsy, he would know the condition of the body. From an article sent by a friend this morning regarding the same case, disrn.com, "A blood-alcohol level of 0.3 is generally considered fatal." His was 0.55.

I honestly think deaths being attributed to the virus are inaccurate, and I really can't see them as being undercounted as Fauci says he "feels." I realize it would be difficult to determine cause of death if, say, someone was old, in the hospital for complications of diabetes (kidney failure or heart disease), develops pneumonia while in the hospital, and then is found to have corona. I wonder if autopsies have been done on all people in situations like that have died, or if it's just easier to call it corona.

Quote from: LarryH
When a person with a lab-confirmed case of COVID-19 dies, their death is automatically counted as a COVID-19 death unless there is another cause that completely rules out COVID-19 such as a fatal physical injury.

It seems they're not sticking to that. And the last I read, the CDC also allows deaths to be attributed to the virus in cases where the patient has not even been tested.

Here's very strong evidence that covid-19 deaths are being under-reported in the U.S.: https://www.statista.com/chart/21531/coronavirus-and-excess-us-deaths/

Excess deaths = the number beyond what would normally be expected for the time of year (not necessarily attributable to COVID-19).

Reported COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. are only 53% of Excess deaths (March thru April 04).

No, sorry, my belief system is apparently trending in the news right now. Just teasing, sorry.

"Colorado has made a stunning and significant change to the way it counts COVID-19 deaths that reduced the statewide figure from more than 1,000 to 878, according to a report.

"The change came after Colorado's Department of Public Health admitted that its COVID-19 death toll was counting those who tested positive for the coronavirus but had died of other causes, Fox 31 Denver reported late Friday."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-lowers-coronavirus-death-count

We may never know the full truth. All we have to rely on are our instincts.

I'm really looking forward to when this is over.

Quote from: seth
Physically, it is true, but again generally speaking, that your body needs certain nourishments. But within that pattern there is great leeway, and the organism itself has the amazing capacity to make use of substitutes and alternates. The best diet in the world, by anyone's standards, will not keep you healthy if you have a belief in illness.

To get back to our discussion earlier here on food, what we think about it, and the psychology behind villainizing certain foods, this turned up on FB today. I'm constantly amazed at how such old material fits in with what's going on 40+ years later.

Quote from: The Personal Sessions, book 5, Deleted Session November 15, 1978
Now: each body is of course individual, and while there must be similarities in the ways bodies utilize substances, still there are differences - and sometimes the differences can be more than considerable. Not only in the case of a given substance in many bodies, for example, but any given body may utilize any given substance in quite diverse fashions, according to varying circumstances.

The dietary methods given in the book Ruburt read have indeed worked for many, and for the following reasons: as you suspected, a kind of conversion was attained. The people involved, first of all, had been told by doctors - medical doctors - that they themselves had no control over their own disease, that the symptoms could be lessened somewhat - PERHAPS - but that there was no hope for recovery."

They were frightened and angry, their condition such that they were often in constant pain. When they visited the author, however, he was optimistic and brusque. He said "You do indeed have control," and his personal manner was such that he convinced them. Now that was all to the good. They were given hope and thrown back to a feeling of self-reliance.

Now, however, the story becomes trickier. The patients had various beliefs, of course, behind their conditions. Many felt unworthy. Because of this many were unable to express normal aggression. Some were frightened of the world, and so forth. The author gives such people a specific enemy or evil: no more must they be battered with formless fears, but these become gathered together and focused into the dietary area. Unhealthy foods become the villain.

This means that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the person, which many of them have believed THEY are good (as of course they are). The trouble is what they take into their system. Those who are cured are at a certain state when they approach the author, as mentioned earlier, feeling helpless after medical treatments that did not work - feeling that there is something wrong with them. They are in their own eyes "bad" - and in one way or another, that kind of belief was behind the condition, to begin with.

(4:13.) To that degree, the author offers them salvation: "You are good, but the food is bad." The fasting is symbolic, as is the emphasis upon enemas and elimination, for these are meant to flush the impurities from your system.

You are as empty, symbolically, open and vacant, as a newborn child, ready now only to partake of god's pure foods, determined to avoid technology's poisonous effects. You are taking in goodness, then, and becoming better and better. You accept dietary limitations - say a limited environment of food - rather than the limitations earlier felt in motion. The exterior environment opens up. Oftentimes the previously withheld normal aggression now can be legitimately expressed - against the food companies, the technological environment, the medical profession, and so forth.

The cured person becomes a convert to a new way of life. When there are no cures, or patients do not respond, or they slide back into old ways, the doctor-author simply says they are not ready to take the steps necessary, or they have taken them half-heartedly.

And many who are cured, of course, come down with other conditions if they have not succeeded in identifying their own fears sufficiently with the author's.

Quote from: Deb
Quote from: The Personal Sessions, book 5, Deleted Session November 15, 1978

Now: each body is of course individual, and while there must be similarities in the ways bodies utilize substances, still there are differences - and sometimes the differences can be more than considerable. Not only in the case of a given substance in many bodies, for example, but any given body may utilize any given substance in quite diverse fashions, according to varying circumstances.

The dietary methods given in the book Ruburt read have indeed worked for many, and for the following reasons: as you suspected, a kind of conversion was attained. The people involved, first of all, had been told by doctors - medical doctors - that they themselves had no control over their own disease, that the symptoms could be lessened somewhat - PERHAPS - but that there was no hope for recovery."

They were frightened and angry, their condition such that they were often in constant pain. When they visited the author, however, he was optimistic and brusque. He said "You do indeed have control," and his personal manner was such that he convinced them. Now that was all to the good. They were given hope and thrown back to a feeling of self-reliance.

Now, however, the story becomes trickier. The patients had various beliefs, of course, behind their conditions. Many felt unworthy. Because of this many were unable to express normal aggression. Some were frightened of the world, and so forth. The author gives such people a specific enemy or evil: no more must they be battered with formless fears, but these become gathered together and focused into the dietary area. Unhealthy foods become the villain.

This means that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the person, which many of them have believed THEY are good (as of course they are). The trouble is what they take into their system. Those who are cured are at a certain state when they approach the author, as mentioned earlier, feeling helpless after medical treatments that did not work - feeling that there is something wrong with them. They are in their own eyes "bad" - and in one way or another, that kind of belief was behind the condition, to begin with.

(4:13.) To that degree, the author offers them salvation: "You are good, but the food is bad." The fasting is symbolic, as is the emphasis upon enemas and elimination, for these are meant to flush the impurities from your system.

You are as empty, symbolically, open and vacant, as a newborn child, ready now only to partake of god's pure foods, determined to avoid technology's poisonous effects. You are taking in goodness, then, and becoming better and better. You accept dietary limitations - say a limited environment of food - rather than the limitations earlier felt in motion. The exterior environment opens up. Oftentimes the previously withheld normal aggression now can be legitimately expressed - against the food companies, the technological environment, the medical profession, and so forth.

The cured person becomes a convert to a new way of life. When there are no cures, or patients do not respond, or they slide back into old ways, the doctor-author simply says they are not ready to take the steps necessary, or they have taken them half-heartedly.

And many who are cured, of course, come down with other conditions if they have not succeeded in identifying their own fears sufficiently with the author's.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

It seems to me that what Seth is talking about here all comes down to "beliefs".

The people involved initially started out with certain "beliefs" that brought about some sort of unhealthy condition in their lives. As a result of this, they opted to seek out help from a doctor. Then, the doctor tells them that they have no control over their own disease; there is no hope. This is another "belief" that they may have accepted.

Then, they hear about the author. The author "convinces" them that they do indeed have control and as a result of this they are given hope. Some of these people, now change their "beliefs" about what the doctors said (they don't have control over there disease). Of course, this new set of beliefs from the author, may have no effect on their "initial" beliefs that created the symptoms to begin with.

Now, with the author's words in mind, they come to "believe" that there are poisonous foods that they have been eating and this sets up some new beliefs for them. In this new set of belief, some foods are considered to be good and some are bad. In their minds, these bad foods then become the cause of their unhealthy conditions.

The people who are cured, take on a new way of life, and perhaps a new system of beliefs in regards to what foods they eat and what practices they follow. They eat the good foods, they avoid the bad foods and follow the authors practice's because they firmly "believe" in this new set of beliefs. And because they firmly "believe" in it, it works for them.

Those who aren't cured, the author says weren't ready to take on the steps necessary or only did so half-heartedly. This isn't completely true. Neither the doctors nor the author seem to consider the possibility that the main issue hear has to do with the various beliefs that these people carry. If their initial beliefs aren't worked out in some satisfactory manner, they are still likely to cause problems for these people, in one form or another.

Many of the people who are seemingly cured by following the author's suggestions, then come down with something else because their initial beliefs were never sufficiently addressed.




In NOPR, Seth spends so much time talking about our "beliefs" and how they affect us, across all areas of life, including health. Many of these "beliefs" are "conscious beliefs" and Seth tells us that we can identify and change them.

He also warns us that many times, people automatically accept various ideas, as being "universal truths" (things that can't be changed).  We do this without ever realizing that many of these ideas aren't, in fact, universal truths. Instead they're just beliefs, and beliefs can be changed.


- jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
It seems to me that what Seth is talking about here all comes down to "beliefs".

Yep, pretty much everything Seth talks about comes down to beliefs.

What caught my attention was him saying that since we are individuals, our bodies can and do differently utilize substances—in my mind, food. Medications and supplements as well. So is there more to how our bodies handle substances than belief alone? Or does the "individual" part mean the differences in our beliefs, rather than subtle differences in our bodies, as we are the creators of our bodies? The rest of the text from the session I quoted leans completely in the direction of beliefs.

I also loved his explanation of how certain foods are considered bad in order to be the whipping boy—"person good, food bad" in order to not face feelings of self-blame or inadequacy. Or responsibility. How different civilization would be if everyone read and understood Seth's teachings.

Quote from: jbseth
Many of the people who are seemingly cured by following the author's suggestions, then come down with something else because their initial beliefs were never sufficiently addressed.

Precisely, he said that a few times. "Many are cured" — reminded me of modern western medicine treating symptoms, rather than finding the cause of the symptoms to begin with. But where would the profit be in that? It's much more profitable for Big Pharma to treat symptoms—you have a customer for life.

Last night, the Daily Show guest was Madeline Albright. She said that many of the countries that are handling the pandemic well are led by women. From memory, these countries are: Norway, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Taiwan, Germany, and I think one more that I can't remember.

Did she have an explanation for why that would be? I can see female leaders (for the most part) handling conflict and war differently than men, but I'm curious about the handling of the pandemic.

"If women ran the world we wouldn't have wars, just intense negotiations every 28 days

~Robin Williams

Lol.

Quote from: Deb
Did she have an explanation for why that would be?

Yes, she did, but I don't remember her answer. Here's the interview:

Thanks, this is what she said:

"I think women are really good at multi-tasking because that's what we have to do, which means that we have peripheral vision, that we do care about how decisions are made, that we actually — if you want to put it in these terms — we don't want to divide our children so that one group hates the other. And there are a variety of aspects in terms of how women come to power, which is mostly by trying to be helpful rather than having a lot of ego activity."

Thanks, I certainly agree with what she said as a general rule.

Readers of Seth will be well-advised to not rush into accepting a vaccine. If the vaccine has not been properly tested, it could result in the person who has taken the vaccine getting a more severe attack of the Covid 19 illneess. This is a phenomenon known as antibody-dependent enhancement. Out of the frying pan into the fire:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7311339/