~Speaking of Seth~

This phrase "simulated universe" refers to the idea that the universe we live in is a kind of virtual reality rather than being a "solid" universe operated mechanically according to the laws of classical physics. Seth does not use the term virtual reality, but I speculate that this may be what he meant when he referred to physical reality being "camouflage reality":

"The settings in your physical environment, the sometimes lovely paraphernalia, the physical aspects of life as you know it, are all camouflages, and so I call your physical reality a camouflage. Yet these camouflages are composed of the vitality of the universe. The rocks and stones and mountains and earth are living camouflage, interlocking psychic webs formed by minute consciousnesses that you cannot perceive as such. The atoms and molecules within them have their own consciousness, as do the atoms and molecules with your body. Since you all have a hand in forming this physical setting, and since you are ensconced yourself in a physical form, then using the physical senses you will only perceive this fantastic setting. The reality that exists both within it and beyond it will elude you. Even the actor is not entirely three-dimensional, however. He is a part of a multidimensional self." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/9itYmpr

I am grateful to member T.M for introducing me to the work of computer scientist Rizwan Virk on another thread:

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=2016.msg16016#msg16016



Today I came across another scientist Stanislav Grof who  expresses similar ideas in his book "The Cosmic Game: Explorations Of The Frontiers Of Human Consciousness" (1998):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof

"We can now summarize the insights from holotropic states of consciousness concerning the
creative principle, the nature of reality, and our own nature. As we have seen, these insights echo
the message of the great spiritual traditions of the world. They suggest that the world of solid matter — featuring three-dimensional space, linear time, and unrelenting causality, as we experience it in our ordinary states of consciousness—does not have an independent existence of its own. Rather than being the only true reality, as it is portrayed by materialistic science, it is a creation of Absolute Consciousness.
In the light of these insights, the material world of our everyday life, including our own
body, is an intricate tissue of misperceptions and misreadings. It is a playful and somewhat arbitrary
product of the cosmic creative principle, an infinitely sophisticated "virtual reality," a divine play
created by Absolute Consciousness and the Cosmic Void. Our universe that appears to contain
countless myriads of separate entities and elements, is in its deepest nature just one being of
immense proportions and unimaginable complexity.
The same is true about all the other dimensions and domains of existence that we can
discover in holotropic states of consciousness. Since there are no absolute boundaries between the
individual psyche, any part of creation, and the cosmic creative principle itself, each of us is
ultimately identical with the divine source of creation. We thus are, collectively and individually,
both the playwrights and actors in this cosmic drama. Since in our true nature we are identical with
the cosmic creative principle, we cannot assuage our cravings by pursuits in the material world, no
matter what their nature and scope....
The realization that all the phenomenal worlds, including our material plane, are virtual
realities created by Absolute Consciousness leads to some very interesting questions. The merging
and union with the cosmic creative principle, as it was described in the previous chapter, is certainly
an extraordinary and very desirable experience from the point of view of an individual human
being. Many spiritual traditions consider reaching this state to be the ultimate goal of the spiritual
quest. Those who actually attain the union with the Universal Mind realize that the situation is
much more complicated.
They discover that what they once considered to be the goal of the spiritual journey is also
the source of creation. It becomes clear to them that, in order to create the phenomenal worlds, the
Divine has to abandon its original state of pristine undifferentiated unity. Considering how fantastic
the experience of identification with Absolute Consciousness is from the human perspective, it
seems strange that the creative principle should seek an alternative, or at least a complement, to a
simple experience of itself. This naturally leads to the question about the nature of the forces that
compel Absolute Consciousness to relinquish its primordial state and to engage in the process of
creating experiential realities like the world we live in. What could possibly motivate the Divine to seek separation, pain, struggle, incompleteness, and impermanence, in short, precisely the states from which we are trying to escape when we embark on the spiritual journey?"

The passage I have quoted from Stanislav Grof ends with a question. Perhaps Seth has the answers?

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Sena, Thanks for starting this post. 


Along with this, there's also the book, "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot.

In this book, Michael explains how and why the entire universe might be a "hologram".

https://www.amazon.com/Holographic-Universe-Revolutionary-Theory-Reality/dp/0062014102/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1NYX92JOYFXVV&dchild=1&keywords=the+holographic+universe&qid=1592667451&sprefix=the+hohlographic+%2Caps%2C224&sr=8-1


- jbseth

Hi All,

Seth also says the following about "camouflage".


SS, Ch1, S512:

[... 38 paragraphs ...]

Now at times I will be using the term "camouflage," referring to the physical world to which the outer ego relates, for physical form is one of the camouflages that reality adopts. The camouflage is real, and yet there is a much greater reality within it — the vitality that gave it form. Your physical senses then allow you to perceive this camouflage, for they are attuned to it in a highly specialized manner. But to sense the reality within the form requires a different sort of attention, and more delicate manipulations than the physical senses provide.

[... 3 paragraphs ...]


-jbseth

Hi All,

Hi Sena, Thank you for starting this thread. I found a few vids last night on this subject. For now, I'm finding it a very useful way of looking at things. I find it also answers some nagging questions for me, as well as dispelling some negativity.
Why has there always been such inequality among mankind, for example.
It makes sense to me that there are practice run areas a person can go through before they are allowed into systems where thoughts manifest more quickly. As well as getting an idea of where their strength and weaknesses are.

Hi Jbseth,

The Holographic Universe is an incredibly good book!! It really got me to looking at things in a different way. It opened mental doorways for me.

I like the word camouflage as Seth used it. I think it's aptly descriptive of what he was trying to convey.

Quote from: jbseth
Along with this, there's also the book, "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot.

jbseth, thanks for reminding me of Talbot's book, which I read about 30 years ago. At that time I found it rather difficult to take seriously, but now, having read the Seth books, I can see the similarity.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I've come across Stanislav Grof's information, on several different occasions in my life. I think that he has an interesting perspective on things as well. Thanks for mentioning him.

-jbseth

Quote from: T.M.
I find it also answers some nagging questions for me, as well as dispelling some negativity.
Why has there always been such inequality among mankind, for example.

T.M., yes the question about the inequality between humans is a concerning one. Although the universe may be a simulation, the simulation must be operating according to certain rules, one of which is that compassion is essential

Hi All,

Hi Sena,

Awhile back I was looking into the idea of healing via repeated traumatisation of the initial event, or events of a similar nature.
The idea being that once a person experiences an event enough times they become desensitized to it, and then healing from it can begin.  So I decided to search to see if Seth had anything to say about that.

I found a small paragraph, or few sentences. I'm pretty sure it was in the compiled lists of Seth Exercises on this site. I can't swear to it but I'm pretty sure that's where I saw it. I haven't been able to find it again.

Roughly paraphrased it goes something like, not all who apply are allowed entrance in our world. The level we are on is a very rough one to engage in.  This just makes me think more of the simulation hypothesis as being valid to some significant degree.

I found a free pdf of Holographic Universe, click on users.unitz.Ca
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+holographic+universe+pdf&oq=the+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i61l10j69i60j69i61l3j69i60j69i65l4.8789j0j4&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8

Quote from: Sena
What could possibly motivate the Divine to seek separation, pain, struggle, incompleteness, and impermanence, in short, precisely the states from which we are trying to escape when we embark on the spiritual journey?"

The passage I have quoted from Stanislav Grof ends with a question. Perhaps Seth has the answers?

I'll try to summarize what I think is Seth's possible answer to Grof's question. Grof speaks of "the Divine", but he does not seem to stress the individuality of Entities and personalities. Seth emphasizes that every personality maintains his/her identity after death. When a personality takes on a difficult life as a human on Earth, it is with the aim of learning from those difficult experiences, and taking back that learning to the Entity and eventually to All That Is. Christian theology may be mistaken in their dogma that their God is "omniscient" (knows everything). It may be that All That Is is not omniscient, and wants to learn from the experiences of individual entities and personalities.

I searched for the word "omniscient" in the Seth search engine, and there were zero results.

Hi All,

Hi Sena,

" Seth emphasizes that every personality maintains his/her identity after death. When a personality takes on a difficult life as a human on Earth, it is with the aim of learning from those difficult experiences, and taking back that learning to the Entity and eventually to All That Is. "

This reminds me of an article I came across a few years ago. The Revelations of an Elite Family Insider
https://archive.org/stream/TheRevelationsOfAnEliteFamilyInsider2005/TheRevelationsOfAnEliteFamilyInsider2005_djvu.txt

Where that is somewhat implied. Warning it's a long read. It has some fascinating answers about creation, our particular sphere of existence. As well as some of the most thought provoking answers about good and evil and the human condition I've ever come across. Do I believe it, whole or partially? I can't say. I just find it immensely interesting to consider. I do find it just straight weird the insider never really talks much about Seth though.

Borrows heavily from the Law of One material. I find value in some of the Law of One material.

Quote from: Sena
What could possibly motivate the Divine to seek separation, pain, struggle, incompleteness, and impermanence, in short, precisely the states from which we are trying to escape when we embark on the spiritual journey?"

The passage I have quoted from Stanislav Grof ends with a question. Perhaps Seth has the answers?

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Actually, I'd say that Seth answers Stanislav Grof's question in several different places and at several different levels. First, in the first few chapters of DEaVF1, Seth talks about how and why All That Is (these are my words) in an explosion of energy, found a way to release the conscious beings of its subjective dream experience out into an objective reality. Over time these conscious beings (such as the Sleepwalkers) gradually went from existing in a dream world, into physical reality.

Then, in addition to this, at a different level, in Seth Speaks, Seth also tells us what happens to us after we die, why we reincarnate, what that is all about, and how eventually, we complete the re-incarnational cycles and move on.




From what I understand, Stanislav Grof's background has to do with things like psychology, the study of LSD experiences and insights into the nature of consciousness.

Given that he asked this question, I suspect that he doesn't know about Seth's teachings, or any of Seth's concepts that I just mentioned.

As a result of this, I believe that one of the issues here, would have to do with first understanding what Stanislav Grof, means, when he refers to "the Divine".


-jbseth

Stanislaf Grof is the person whose books got my attention directed to the Seth material. He makes mention of it. I think there was one of mention on a forum I saw before reading about Jane Roberts in his book, but it seemed like more of a joke because of how unusual the idea was at the time.

In the same book I wish I could remember the name but he was speaking of a list of entities that seemed to interact with people under the unique circumstances of his therapy sessions. I think it was Transpersonal Vision.

Of the entities there were a number of different "gods" from religions which people claimed to encounter on multiple occasions. One out of a dozen or so I can remember was the Zoroastrian god Ahura Mazda so specific to me because that religion is nearly extinct.

Quote from: jbseth
Actually, I'd say that Seth answers Stanislav Grof's question in several different places and at several different levels. First, in the first few chapters of DEaVF1, Seth talks about how and why All That Is (these are my words) in an explosion of energy, found a way to release the conscious beings of its subjective dream experience out into an objective reality.

jbseth, thanks for pointing that out. I have not read that particular book.

Hi Sena,

Since you haven't read this book, in case you're curious, I thought that I'd pass along the following information.

In DEaVF1, I'd say that Seth primarily covers two main topics.  In Chapters 1 and 2 he talks about how and why All That Is, created all reality. Then in Chapters 3, 4 and 5, he talks about how life evolved on Earth. I would say that generally, these two topics make up about 90% of this book, which has the following chapter titles:

1 Before the Beginning
2 In the Beginning
3 Sleepwalkers. The World in Early Trance. The Awakening of the Species.
4 The Ancient Dreamers
5 The "Garden of Eden". Man "Loses His Dream Body and Gains a "Soul"
6 Genetic Heritage and Reincarnational Predilections


-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Since you haven't read this book, in case you're curious, I thought that I'd pass along the following information.

jbseth, thanks for the information. I find that a pdf of the book is freely available on the internet. I found this interesting:

"Beyond Framework 1, however, exists
Framework 2, and it represents the great timeless or simultaneous
spacious present that's so dearly a manifestation of All That Is. All of
our dreams, plans, thoughts, actions, and choices live in Framework 2;
all flow from Framework 2 into Framework 1 according to our beliefs."

I wonder whether Framework 1 is the simulation, and Framework 2 is what lies behind it?

Another quote from the book:

"There followed many sessions, both regular and private (or deleted,
as we sometimes call them), in which Seth discussed Frameworks 1 and
2. As can happen when we're consciously too close to a deep-seated
situation, some little time passed before Jane and I realized the obvious:
It wasn't that we were unable to tune into Framework 2, say, for help in
effecting a healing for her in the joint reality we'd created in Framework
1—but that in physical reality we were drawing from Framework 2
exactly what we wanted to, even if often on unconscious or unwitting
levels. Again, a matter of choices, and hard truths to face."

To take a real-life example: "The human race drew Covid 19 from Framework 2 on an unconscious or unwitting level."

Or, "The human race wrote the computer program for Covid 19 on an unconscious or unwitting level."

I imagine Framework 2 to be a kind of supermarket. Most of the time we are taking things from it unconsciously. When we start taking things from there consciously and intelligently, that is when we start creating our own reality. So, for instance, we could take from Framework 2 the power of immunity to Covid19.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Sena, did your quotes about Fmwk 1 (Framework 1 - I'm being lazy) and Fmwk 2 come from DEaVF1, or some other book?

I'm pretty sure that Seth mentions the Fmwks, in the Mass Events book, NOME, and as I recall, I think that Jane mentions it in her book, "The God of Jane".


Regarding your first quote, I noticed that Seth said, "Framework 2" "represents the" "spacious present that's" "a manifestation of All That Is."

I think that perhaps it is All That Is, that is the ultimate reality behind everything.


-jbseth

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Regarding virtual reality and the 2 Frameworks, check this out. I just came across this in the Seth search engine.


NOME, Ch4, S825:

[...]

So far, I have been speaking of Frameworks 1 and 2 separately, and I will continue to do so for your convenience and understanding. Actually the two merge, of course, for your Framework 1 existence is immersed in Framework 2. Again, your body itself is constantly replenished in Framework 1 because of its simultaneous reality in Framework 2. Framework 2 is ever exteriorizing itself, appearing in your experience as Framework 1. You concentrate so thoroughly upon exterior reality, however, that you often ignore the quite apparent deeper sources of your own physical existence. As a result you deal with methods of division and categorization so completely that you lose sight of associative organizations, even though you use them constantly in your own most intimate thought processes.


This definitely sounds kind of like Fmwk1 is a virtual reality sort of thing to me.

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Sena, did your quotes about Fmwk 1 (Framework 1 - I'm being lazy) and Fmwk 2 come from DEaVF1, or some other book?

jbseth, the quotes are from DEaVF1 Essay 7: Friday, May 7, 1982:

"There followed many sessions, both regular and private (or deleted, as we sometimes call them), in which Seth discussed Frameworks 1 and 2. As can happen when we're consciously too close to a deep-seated situation, some little time passed before Jane and I realized the obvious: It wasn't that we were unable to tune into Framework 2, say, for help in effecting a healing for her in the joint reality we'd created in Framework 1—but that in physical reality we were drawing from Framework 2 exactly what we wanted to, even if often on unconscious or unwitting levels. Again, a matter of choices, and hard truths to face. As I've tried to show in these essays, we didn't suspend our efforts to reach into that larger framework. In a variety of ways we kept trying to do just that through the screens of our emotions and intellects. In those terms, communication between frameworks is unstoppable, really: I think that if one could halt the interchanges, physical death would result. For us, the learning processes were there for the changing anytime we decided that a physical illness was "wrong." But it would be wrong only when we decided that we didn't need it anymore."
—DEaVF1 Essay 7: Friday, May 7, 1982

Quote from: jbseth
Regarding your first quote, I noticed that Seth said, "Framework 2" "represents the" "spacious present that's" "a manifestation of All That Is."

I think that perhaps it is All That Is, that is the ultimate reality behind everything.

jbseth, I would agree that the "computer programmers" responsible for initiating and maintaining the universe simulation consist of All That Is, which by definition include all Entities.

Quote from: jbseth
Again, your body itself is constantly replenished in Framework 1 because of its simultaneous reality in Framework 2. Framework 2 is ever exteriorizing itself, appearing in your experience as Framework 1.

jbseth, in other words, the computer program is in Framework 2, while the 3-D virtual reality is Framework 1.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I've been thinking about this VR / Simulation concept lately.

There are several places across the Seth information where Seth talks about the relationship that exists between the inner self or inner ego, and outer self or outer ego. One of the best explanations of this relationship, I think, is given in TES9, S509.



TES9, S509:

Now the inner ego is the organizer of experience that Jung would call unconscious. The inner ego is another term for what we call the inner self. As the outer ego manipulates within the environment and physical reality, so the inner ego or self organizes and manipulates within an inner reality. The inner ego creates that physical reality with which the outer ego then deals.

It is this inner self, out of the massive knowledge and unlimited scope of its consciousness, that forms the physical world, that provides stimuli to keep the ego constantly at the job of awareness. It is the inner self, termed here the inner ego, that organizes, initiates, projects, controls the EE units of which we have been speaking lately, transforming energy into objects, into matter.

The energy of this inner self is directed and used by it to richly form from itself, from components and inner experience, a material counterpart in which the outer ego then can act out its role. The outer ego is most in the role, acting out a play that the inner self has written.



If we're going to seriously entertain the idea that our 3D physical reality is a Virtual Reality or simulation, then given what Seth says above, isn't it the inner self who's the creator of the VF / simulation?

What do you think?


-jbseth

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,

My thoughts are along the lines that an A.I. runs certain processes. Perhaps somehow stabilizes and maintains something like parallel time lines. A person picks a world with an overall theme. A peaceful world, or a violent one, for example.

The beings incarnating in those worlds are wholly organic.

There was a Russian scientist, around the 1950's, maybe. For whatever reason he quite being a scientist and got into developing drilling sites for big oil. He became convinced that the overall worlds weather system was being run by a computer from an off world alien species. Also that this alien species would let humanity grow to a certain size, then wipe them out collectively and start over again.  His name is Hadibov. There was a sparse amount of info on the net, then it disappeared.
Crrow777 on YouTube has a couple of episodes about him. I really didn't/don't know what to make of it.
I find it interesting a scientist that far back in time came to that conclusion though.

I think it might be Bowies reference to "the spiders from mars.

Quote from: jbseth
If we're going to seriously entertain the idea that our 3D physical reality is a Virtual Reality or simulation, then given what Seth says above, isn't it the inner self who's the creator of the VF / simulation?

What do you think?

jbseth, how I see it is that the Inner Self is our connection to Framework 2, i.e. what is behind the simulation.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Last night, a new thought came to me regarding this VR simulation concept.  I suspect that this VR Simulation concept is also directly related to Seth's concept that, "You Create Your Reality". Here's what I mean.

Let's say that you believe that, "You Create Your Reality". If this is the case, then, it would also seem to me, that you believe that it "you" create this VR Simulation.

On the other hand, if you don't believe that "you" create this VR Simulation, (or what is the same thing, if you believe that someone else creates it) then you must not believe that, "You Create Your Reality".



Here's an important point.  Notice that I'm only talking about "beliefs" here. I'm not talking about who actually creates or doesn't create the VR Simulation.



As a result of this, it seems to me that there are actually two issues on the plate here. One, what is it that we "believe" about who creates this VR simulation.  Then, the other is, who actually creates this VR simulation, assuming that it exists.

I'm not trying to make this difficult here, but seems to me that as we discuss this topic, we might be getting these 2 issues confused amongst ourselves.

For me, let me just say that I do believe that, "I Create My Reality", and as a result of this, I also believe that, "I Create this VR simulation".


-jbseth

More from Rizwan Virk's book, "The Simulation Hypothesis":

"This brings up the question of whether angels (which
means messengers) are actually "conscious" entities or simply automatons that follow rules, record
deeds, transfer messages, and intervene in our physical reality from time to time. In the biblical
traditions, there is a hierarchy of angels who seem to have different purposes and powers.
Computer science provides the answer: The recording angels, if we assume they exist, are
most likely some form of computer program that is recording, either visually or in some other
format, what is happening in our lives. Like an intelligent screen recording while we are playing a
video game, it provides not just a record but an evaluation of the gameplay and help us to keep
score in the video game. These recordings are available for us in the afterlife, and "God" reviews
them with us to give us the "judgment" according to the Western religious traditions.
Guardian angels, on the other hand, may be a little more sophisticated than simple
automatons. They need to make judgments and guide us or protect us in a more complex way. In
some traditions, they are advanced souls that are given the task of watching over a small or a large
number of souls. This means that they may actually be conscious entities like us or master players
of a game who are leading "guilds" or "soul groups."

This gives us some idea of what may be our "ethical responsibilities" in our human life. Just because the universe may be virtual reality, it does not mean that we are free of ethical responsibilities.

Seth does have something to say about angels:

"It is very possible for one dreamer who is a Speaker, to go to the aid of another individual who is having some difficulties in an inner reality within the dream state. The idea of guardian angels of course is highly connected here. A good Speaker is as effective within one reality as he is within the other, creating psychic frameworks within physical reality as well as within interior environments. Many artists, poets, and musicians are Speakers, translating one world in terms of another, forming psychic structures that exist in both with great vitality — structures that may be perceived from more than one reality at once. (Pause" (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/fnEkB3v

This is how Rizwan Virk explains the phenomenon of individual consciousness within the simulated universe:

"If we extend the idea of downloading consciousness as something that happens at the moment of birth (which does require the soul be codified into some type of information) and then uploading is what happens upon death,
then this objection falls away. In fact, as we'll see in some of the experiments, the requirement for
consciousness actually may support the simulation hypothesis, since that consciousness needs to
exist independent of the physical entities we see around us."

This seems to make sense to me.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I found the following Seth quotes from TES1, Session 23 to be insightful, in regards to who Seth says creates the camouflage of physical reality.




-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
The facts are simply that you yourselves form these camouflage patterns, and I repeat this simple statement: You form the camouflage world of appearances with the same part of you that breathes. You do not admit the breather as really being a part of yourselves, nor do you admit the creator of the camouflaged physical world as being part of yourselves.

jbseth, thanks for this quote. So it would appear that "the camouflage world of appearances" (the simulated universe) is created moment by moment by all conscious beings who reside in Framework 2 and have decided to manifest themselves in Framework 1. Our inner selves reside in Framework 2.

"For Seth, Framework 1 is simply a term representing the everyday, linear, conscious "working reality" we take for granted, the one in which "time" and events automatically unfold in moment after undeniable moment. It's the milieu in which most of us unthinkingly live out our physical lives. Beyond Framework 1, however, exists Framework 2, and it represents the great timeless or simultaneous spacious present that's so dearly a manifestation of All That Is. All of our dreams, plans, thoughts, actions, and choices live in Framework 2; all flow from Framework 2 into Framework 1 according to our beliefs."
—DEaVF1 Essay 7: Friday, May 7, 1982

"So far in our discussion, then, we have an inner self, dwelling primarily in a mental or psychic dimension, dreaming itself into physical form, and finally forming a body consciousness. To that body consciousness the inner self gives "its own body of physical knowledge," the vast reservoir of physical achievement that it has triumphantly produced."
—DEaVF1 Chapter 4: Session 894, January 9, 1980

Hi All,

My wife and I just watched the James Cameron movie "Avatar". We both really love that movie.  Regarding this discussion of our camouflage world and the VR simulation, here's an analogy based upon this movie:

Jake Sully, the paraplegic Marine, represents the outer ego and the world that this Jake sees, is the camouflage reality, Framework 1.

Jake Sully, the Nav'i, represents the inner self. The world that this Jake sees is the inner reality, Framework 2.

The Nav'i people themselves, represent all the inner selves.

Eywa, represents All That Is.


https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/



-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Jake Sully, the paraplegic Marine, represents the outer ego and the world that this Jake sees, is the camouflage reality, Framework 1.

Jake Sully, the Nav'i, represents the inner self. The world that this Jake sees is the inner reality, Framework 2.

The Nav'i people themselves, represent all the inner selves.

Eywa, represents All That Is.

OK I have to admit that I saw Avatar when it came out in 2009. My draw was the amazing animation/special effects. I've been known to say that when I reincarnate, I want to be involved with movie special effects (remember the F/X tv series?). 2009 was pre-Seth/pre-metaphysics for me, so anything beyond the story line and amazing animation was lost on me.

Last night I was searching on Netflix, and they don't seem to have the original Avatar movie. Instead, I came across a sort of noir series called Dark and started watching it. It deals with non-linear time. It starts off as a German series with dubbing, but at some point it seems that the dubbing appears to be English/English  . It's pretty interesting but you really have to pay attention.

https://www.thewrap.com/4-reasons-why-you-should-be-watching-dark-netflixs-new-twisty-german-time-travel-show/

I'll continue to look for Avatar, I do want to watch it again.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

I agree, I was absolutely blown away with the FX effects used in the movie Avatar. It definitely reminded me of how I was blown away by the FX effects of the original Star Wars movie, in 1977.


However, as a Seth reader I was also simultaneously blown away by the story itself (the relationship with Seth's idea that physical reality is a camouflage, Framework 1 and Framework 2, the "sleepwalkers" and how they had little impact on nature, and how they were in touch with their inner selves, etc.)

For me, it was a double whammy. Not only was it a great FX movie, but the story itself also contained a lot of Seth type symbolism.

Deb, I think that if you go back and watch it now, with Seth's ideas in mind, you'll see this movie in a brand new way that you probably didn't see before.   



Now, along with everything else that I previously said about this movie, in the movie itself, the little floating white (milkweed like) seeds from the "tree", seems to represent messages from nature (or perhaps intuitions from the inner self) and the fact that Neytiri (played by Zoe Saldana) paid attention to them and didn't kill the Jake Sully Avatar with an arrow, when one of them landed on her drawn arrow, seems to indicates that she and her people paid special attention to these messages from nature (or from messages from their inner self).

There was also another time in the movie, where a bunch of these seeds landed on Jake, thus showing the Na'vi, that he was to be recognized as a friend.


As I said, along with great FX effects, this movie seemed to contain a lot of Seth type symbolism as well.

-jbseth

Hi All,

Oh yeah, in the movie, Avatar, Jake "connects" to the strands from the tree of and tells it that men from earth have come to destroy their world. To me, this seemed to be symbolic of "connecting" to your inner self and communicating with it?

Then later, in the battle scene, Eywa, (nature or All That Is) replies by sending very many, large rhinoceros type animals, small black cat like animals, and flying reptile type animals to attack the earth invaders.

To me this seemed very symbolic of nature, All That Is, or your inner self responding to your non-physical  communications?

- jbseth

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

A couple days ago I hinged watched Dark. It's interesting, I enjoyed watching it. I like the kind of story telling where it jumps around between past, present and future   your right, a person really has to pay attention.
I've seen a little bit of season 3. So far looks like its from the girls point of view.

Hi Jbseth,

I can see what your saying about Avatar. Next time I see it I will keep in mind all these ideas   Think I'm going to rematch soon too.

Hi,
I've come across the Emergence Theory from Quantum Gravity Research and Garrett Lisi's Theory Of Everything .
The following video is fun to watch and explains the 2 topics above pretty well

Quote from: Deb on July 06, 2020, 08:24:51 PMI'll continue to look for Avatar, I do want to watch it again.

You can have my copy if you didnt find it. I have seen it twice and it just rubs me the wrong way. There is, to me, an under current I just could not enjoy. I get all that has been said about it but I picked up on other subtle things I guess... I dont know..... I did not like the movie?    I even saw it at the Imax. *S* Didnt help.

If the blue people are the Inner Selves then why are they so violent when attacked? I mean they were murdering people. And using nature to do it.

So now my real experiences in the Inner World are merely a simulation? Or a holographic universe?
Ive seen stuff like this before and I kind of can follow but only to a point.

There is a game aspect to this reality for a learning purpose - in my understanding. Not to take life so seriously ...etc etc I understand that.

But it feels like a set up for virtual reality. (shrug)

Nothing can ever be exactly duplicated is what Seth unteaches. TES4 (Which means holographic universe is out.)

Im not 100% on the simulation aspect. I am not convinced. If it were a simulation my Inner Self would let me know. So far that has not happened. If it is.... I trust I will find out. Seems like I would have already but who knows.

Ive had several "dreams" where there is a "game" aspect to this physical reality. And everyone adds to the database and its all good. But for me it was about physical life. But Game and Simulation are two different things.

I shall keep an open spot for it though because why not...

--

I enjoyed the series Dark until the last season.
It was as if they werent allowed to finish it the way they wanted. Seemed rushed and messy? I wonder if there was word to cut the show? Like they did to the OA ? And the last season of Fringe.
First two seasons of Dark are excellent though.  Binge worthy even.

Quote from: strangerthings on October 17, 2021, 12:21:09 PMNothing can ever be exactly duplicated is what Seth unteaches. TES4 (Which means holographic universe is out.)

Im not 100% on the simulation aspect. I am not convinced. If it were a simulation my Inner Self would let me know. So far that has not happened. If it is.... I trust I will find out. Seems like I would have already but who knows.

St, I did toy with the idea of a simulated universe, but I now conclude that it is NOT consistent with the Seth teachings. If you search the Seth search engine for "simulation", only three results appear, and nothing very significant. Seth talked about probable REALITIES; "realities" are the opposite of simulation.

Quote from: dttvn57 on October 17, 2021, 09:30:20 AMHi,
I've come across the Emergence Theory from Quantum Gravity Research and Garrett Lisi's Theory Of Everything

Hi, welcome to the forum!

Quote from: Sena on October 17, 2021, 09:26:30 PM

Quote from: strangerthings on October 17, 2021, 12:21:09 PMNothing can ever be exactly duplicated is what Seth unteaches. TES4 (Which means holographic universe is out.)

Im not 100% on the simulation aspect. I am not convinced. If it were a simulation my Inner Self would let me know. So far that has not happened. If it is.... I trust I will find out. Seems like I would have already but who knows.

St, I did toy with the idea of a simulated universe, but I now conclude that it is NOT consistent with the Seth teachings. If you search the Seth search engine for "simulation", only three results appear, and nothing very significant. Seth talked about probable REALITIES; "realities" are the opposite of simulation.

That's where I am standing at the moment. If I was jacked in to some fake reality I would know. Imagination and Dream States and my Inner Self are very REAL.

I see the simulation and holographic stuff as setting us up for virtual reality. (my two cents)

Quote from: strangerthings on October 18, 2021, 01:47:16 AMI see the simulation and holographic stuff as setting us up for virtual reality. (my two cents)

In my opinion, the idea of a holographic universe does not imply virtual reality.

Quote from: dttvn57 on October 17, 2021, 09:30:20 AMI've come across the Emergence Theory from Quantum Gravity Research and Garrett Lisi's Theory Of Everything .
The following video is fun to watch and explains the 2 topics above pretty well

Hi @dttvn57, welcome and thanks for the link. I did watch the entire video, I thought it was well made and entertaining, but it went over my head after 3D, lol. I did get a kick out of "All the Information of E8 Exists in its 'Shadow'" as it reminded me of the Allegory of the Cave.

Quote from: LarryH on October 18, 2021, 09:58:20 AMIn my opinion, the idea of a holographic universe does not imply virtual reality.

Quote from: Sena on October 17, 2021, 09:26:30 PMSeth talked about probable REALITIES; "realities" are the opposite of simulation.

Great points! Seth used the term "camouflage universe" to describe our system. Camouflage does not necessarily mean virtual either, but instead reality dressed up in different clothing.

Quote from: LarryH on October 18, 2021, 09:58:20 AMthe idea of a holographic universe does not imply virtual reality

Im with you there. Virtual was more simulated not holographic. I just lumped it all in one sentence in that post.

--

Who knows where the simulation theories will take us. It is a stepping stone which is why I am keeping an openness around it. I have seen stuff on simulations theories before and it has developed over the years into a more evolved theory but I still am not with with it 100%. Just an open mind around it as it evolves. However a FORCED simulated world will meet a great COUNTER.

@dttvn57 you have definitely revived a great topic to discuss

However, I do not know anything about you or even if you know about the Seth material. You have not introduced yourself.

I am taking an assumption that you either are in support of a simulated world or... have questions and doubts in your own mind.

SO, do you support the moonshot project ?!

It is my understanding that a "simulated universe" places DOUBT in

I AM

---

and baby I AM

--

I AM
A WORTHY DESERVING ------ PERSON

I HAVE
A RIGHT TO MY LIFE IN THIS UNIVERSE

I HAVE
A RIGHT TO BE BECAUSE ----- I AM

Quote from: strangerthings on October 18, 2021, 07:45:17 PMI HAVE
A RIGHT TO MY LIFE IN THIS UNIVERSE

Amen.

Quote from: LarryH on October 18, 2021, 09:58:20 AMIn my opinion, the idea of a holographic universe does not imply virtual reality.

Larry, I agree that they are not exactly the same, but they are close:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlHanBMNk-DJkWwy52kYKf8X_CA8h6FHt

QuoteAccording to University of California San Diego Assistant Professor of Physics Yi-Zhuang You, the holographic universe can be thought of as a universe in virtual reality.

https://dps.ucsd.edu/media-events/articles/2020/using-artificial-intelligence-to-paint-the-holographic-universe.html

QuoteThe theory that reality, as we consciously experience it, is not real, goes back to the indigenous people who believed that we exist in a dream or illusion. In our current timeline, we refer to the our virtual reality experience as a matrix, grids, simulation and hologram. There are scientists who trying to prove the hologram exists and others who are trying to break us out of it. Theories about reality being a simulation are increasing.

https://steemit.com/science/@etherealcreation/do-we-live-in-matrix-holographic-universe-theory

Well I did a little pokin around this simulated ....stuff and I found a plethora of "hackable human" ..... stuff Yeah lets all have avatars that do what they want to with us in some crazy dental chair 

um is this not black magic? I found this on some weforum bs

And they use language to describe how wonderful it will be using "already happened" language.
So I did not bother reading further. They can use their already happened language and we will use ours.  *L*

I think nincompoops is a great word here lol

Quote from: strangerthings on October 18, 2021, 04:28:18 PMHowever, I do not know anything about you or even if you know about the Seth material

I am a total newbie as far as the Seth material is concerned, but I'm very curious about things in general.

Quote from: dttvn57 on October 20, 2021, 07:58:30 PMI'm very curious about things in general.

Being curious is a wonderful thing! Hopefully we all can all follow that lead!

Happy questing! Hope to talk to you more around here : )