~Speaking of Seth~

Hi All,

I just discovered something kind of interesting today and so I thought that I'd share it here with the members of this forum.

In the book, "The Nature of Personality", in Chapter 14, Session 653 and 654, Seth talks about probable events.

In Session 653, he tells us why psychic predictions often don't come true; we have free will. Then, in the very next session, he tells us that sometimes the future can be predicted; because the future is not predetermined.

I have known that Seth basically supported both of these two almost opposing ideas. However, I never realized that he expressed them so close together, anywhere in his material.

Check it out.



NOPR, Ch14, S653:

[...] This is one of the reasons why psychics' predictions often do not seem to bear out, for at every point you do indeed have the free will, through your beliefs, to alter your experience.


NOPR, Ch14, S654:

[...] The future is in no way predetermined on basic levels. This does not mean that the future cannot be predicted sometimes, for in practical terms you will often continue with certain lines of probability which can be seen "ahead of time."

Such predictions can affect the probabilities, of course, and reinforce a present line of belief. [...]



- jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
The future is in no way predetermined on basic levels. This does not mean that the future cannot be predicted sometimes, for in practical terms you will often continue with certain lines of probability which can be seen "ahead of time."

jbseth, how I understand this is that if one is determined to move towards a certain future outcome, it will be possible to achieve that, as long as it does not harm anyone else. An example would be recovering from an illness like Covid 19. What is not achievable is a prediction that the pandemic will end in say 6 months. That is not predictable because it depends on the choices of so many people.

Quote from: Sena
jbseth, how I understand this is that if one is determined to move towards a certain future outcome, it will be possible to achieve that, as long as it does not harm anyone else. An example would be recovering from an illness like Covid 19. What is not achievable is a prediction that the pandemic will end in say 6 months. That is not predictable because it depends on the choices of so many people.
         

Hi Sena, Hi All,

In the first sentence of you say the following (if one is determined to move towards a certain future outcome, it will be possible to achieve that).  It seems to me that perhaps you're actually talking about "reality creation" here and not "psychic prediction"?


In regards to one of your other comments where you say:

"What is not achievable is a prediction that the pandemic will end in say 6 months. That is not predictable because it depends on the choices of so many people."

you and I differ here on this and that's OK.




Here's the reason why I think that Mass Events can sometimes be predicted.

It is my understanding that what Seth was saying here had to do with predictions in general.  I don't recall Seth ever saying that "mass events" can't be predicted. In fact, some of what he does say, seems to indicate that insights into mass events can and do occur all the time.

Seth does tell us that many people do receive telepathic insights from their inner selves about impending natural disasters. He says that some people respond to these and others don't.  In NOPR, Chapter 18, talks quite a bit about the flood of Elmira, NY, that Jane and Rob were involved with, in 1972.

Seth also tells us that in some cases, people have dreams about potentially disastrous future events. In talking about this, he says that sometimes when this is occurs, the person who had the dream, makes some change in their lives and in doing so, they avoided this disastrous reality. In the way that Seth talks about this, it appears as though the purpose of the dream was to warn the dreamer of the potential future disastrous event (so that it could be avoided).

In both of these two situations (telepathic intuitive insights and dreams), Seth seems to be saying that, in some cases, people do, in fact, pick up on mass events. As a result of this, it seems to me that it might be possible for a psychic to pick up on some pending or future mass event.


If people really can't predict mass events, because they depend upon the choices of so many people, then it shouldn't be possible for anyone to have predicted the Covid-19 mass event of the year 2020.



The problem with this is people like Sylvia Brown, the psychic who died in 2013. In one of her last books, written in 2008, Sylvia Browne appears to have accurately predicted the Covid -19 virus in the year 2020. She appears to have accurately predicted both the year that this would occur and the symptoms for this condition, from a prediction she made many years ago.

The website below, shows us exactly what she predicted and what she wrote in her 2008 book, "End of Days".


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sylvia-browne-coronavirus/


This is the reason why I think that mass events "can" sometimes be accurately predicted.


-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
In one of her last books, written in 2008, Sylvia Browne appears to have accurately predicted the Covid -19 virus in the year 2020. She appears to have accurately predicted both the year that this would occur and the symptoms for this condition, from a prediction she made many years ago.

jbseth, it is doubtful that Sylvia Browne predicted Covid 19:

"After the excerpt went viral, many dismissed the prediction as too vague, with Centre for Inquiry's Benjamin Radford debunking Browne's comments.

"So what did Browne predict would happen sometime during those years?" Radford writes. "Covid-19 is not 'a severe pneumonia-like illness,' though it can in some cases lead to pneumonia. Most of those infected (about 80 per cent) have mild symptoms and recover just fine, and the disease has a mortality rate of between 2 per cent and 4 per cent."

Radford added: "[The second sentence] is false, at least as of now. Covid-19 has not 'suddenly vanished as quickly as it arrived,' and even if it eventually does, its emergence pattern would have to be compared with other typical epidemiology data to know whether it's 'baffling'."

Browne, who had a cult following right up to her death in 2013, was known for making many predictions that went on to be proven false.

Some of these related to cases of missing people, and in 2004, Browne told the mother of kidnapping victim Amanda Berry that her child was not alive despite Berry being found alive in 2013. Her mother died believing she had been killed."

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/coronavirus-book-psychic-sally-browne-predict-debunk-a9403076.html

"In her 2008 book End of Days, Browne predicted that "In around 2020 a severe pneumonia-like illness will spread throughout the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes and resisting all known treatments. Almost more baffling than the illness itself will be the fact that it will suddenly vanish as quickly as it arrived, attack again ten years later, and then disappear completely."

"There's a lot packed into these two sentences, and I recently did a deep dive into it. First, we have an indefinite date range ("in around 2020"), which depends on how loosely you interpret the word "around," but plausibly covers seven (or more) years. Browne predicted "A severe pneumonia-like illness," but COVID-19 is not "a severe pneumonia-like illness" (though it can in some cases lead to pneumonia). Most of those infected (about 80 percent) have mild symptoms and recover just fine, and the disease has a mortality rate of between 2 percent and 4 percent. Browne claims it "will spread throughout the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes," and COVID-19 has indeed spread throughout the globe, but Browne also says the disease she's describing "resists all known treatments." This does not describe COVID-19; in fact, doctors know how to treat the disease—it's essentially the same for influenza or other similar respiratory infections. This coronavirus is not "resisting" all (or any) known treatments."

"She further describes the illness: "Almost more baffling than the illness itself will be the fact that it will suddenly vanish as quickly as it arrived, attack again ten years later, and then disappear completely." This is false; COVID-19 has not "suddenly vanished as quickly as it arrived," and even if it eventually does, its emergence pattern would have to be compared with other typical epidemiology data to know whether it's "baffling."

You can read my full piece at the link above, but basically we have a two-sentence prediction written in 2008 by a convicted felon with a long track record of failures. Half of the prediction has demonstrably not happened. The other half of the prophecy describes an infectious respiratory illness that does not resemble COVID-19 in its particulars that would supposedly happen within a few years of 2020. At best, maybe one-sixth of what she said is accurate, depending again on how much latitude you're willing to give her in terms of dates and vague descriptions."

https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/sylvia-brownes-bogus-coronavirus-prophecies/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Browne#Fraud_conviction

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Regarding Sylvia Browne's prediction of Covid-19, you and I apparently differ on this, and that's OK.

I want to be clear here, I'm not asking or telling you that you have to agree with me here. I'm also not trying to convince you or anyone else here that I'm right and you or they're wrong.  All I'm doing here is trying to explain, what it was about this situation that, from my perspective, that led me to this conclusion.



According to her book, here is what Sylvia Browne said:

"In around 2020 a severe pneumonia-like illness will spread throughout the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes and resisting all known treatments. Almost more baffling than the illness itself will be the fact that it will suddenly vanish as quickly as it arrived, attack again ten years later, and then disappear completely."



"In around 2020" – Here she says "around" 2020" and while it may have initially occurred in 2019, it was in the year 2020 where it had its major impact. 

"a severe" – It seems to me that the word "severe" could be interpreted multiple ways. One would be to say that since only 2% or 5% (or whatever the number seems to be) of the population will die from this, it isn't severe. Another way would be based upon the people who catch this disease. Mild or severe symptoms.  My brother-in-law's, son and his wife, both in their late 50's to early 60's are the only people I know who have come down with this disease (thank God) and both of them almost died from it. Reed said that this was one of the most painful experiences of his life.  It was definitely severe to them.

"pneumonia-like illness" – From a layman's perspective, I typically think of a "cold", bronchitis, the flu and pneumonia as all being more or less in the same basic disease category.  These are much different than other diseases such as for example cancer, heart disease, or liver disease. For her to categorize this as a "pneumonia-like" illness is valid in my opinion. It does affect the lungs and breathing.

"will spread throughout the globe " – it has.

"attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes " – as far as I know, this is all true.

"resisting all known treatments"– as far as I know, this is also true although a vaccine has been talked about.

"Almost more baffling than the illness itself will be the fact that it will suddenly vanish as quickly as it arrived"

I don't know that this statement will turn out to be true. As far as I know it hasn't disappeared yet.

"attack again ten years later, and then disappear completely."

I don't know that any of this statement will turn out to be true.




Given all of this, did she predict Covid-19 (again from my perspective)?

Yes. I'd believe that she did.


Did she accurately predict all the specific details about this disease (resists all treatment, suddenly disappear, reoccur in 10 years)? 

Maybe not.




-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Almost more baffling than the illness itself will be the fact that it will suddenly vanish as quickly as it arrived, attack again ten years later, and then disappear completely.

jbseth, let's hope this part of the prediction is correct.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Regarding Sylvia Browne herself, to be honest, I've never been a fan of hers.

Some years ago a family member mentioned her to me and so I thought I'd look into what she wrote. Having looked at several of her books, there were some things that she talked about that just didn't seem to be true to me, given my understanding of Seth.

To me, while I understood that she had quite a following, I didn't get the impression that she was necessarily a gifted psychic. As a result of this, while I knew of her, I never paid much attention to anything she said or wrote.

On the other hand, I do believe that there are people who are gifted psychics. To me, this would include John Edward, Allison DuBois, Ingo Swann and Judith Orloff.



Maybe more than some, I was really surprised to find out what Sylvia Browne had written in her 2008 book about an illness that will occur around 2020. I never would have expected this from her.

Given this then, I'll at least acknowledge that apparently she did write these things sometime back perhaps in 2008 or earlier.

While I'm still not convinced that she was a gifted psychic, she may have been than I thought she was. But then again, maybe she wasn't, who knows.


-jbseth

Quote from: Sena
Quote from: jbsethAlmost more baffling than the illness itself will be the fact that it will suddenly vanish as quickly as it arrived, attack again ten years later, and then disappear completely.

jbseth, let's hope this part of the prediction is correct.

Hi Sena,

Yeah, I could really go for it suddenly going away and never reappearing. 

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Hi Sena,

Yeah, I could really go for it suddenly going away and never reappearing. 

-jbseth

jbseth, do you think it possible that Sylvia Browne, by predicting the pandemic, played an important role in creating the reality of Covid 19? It could be argued that everyone on the planet jointly created that reality, but Sylvia Browne being a rather famous person whose books were read by many, may have had a special role in the creation. May be she felt that if the pandemic occurred many more people would buy her book and she could make a lot of money.

It could be that this is how all fortune-telling works, by creating certain realities. Doctors sometimes tell patients that they have six months to live.

Quote from: Sena
jbseth, do you think it possible that Sylvia Browne, by predicting the pandemic, played an important role in creating the reality of Covid 19?

It could be argued that everyone on the planet jointly created that reality, but Sylvia Browne being a rather famous person whose books were read by many, may have had a special role in the creation. May be she felt that if the pandemic occurred many more people would buy her book and she could make a lot of money.It could be that this is how all fortune-telling works, by creating certain realities. Doctors sometimes tell patients that they have six months to live.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Great question Sena, thanks for asking.


Here's some of my thoughts on this. 

I think that psychic predictions and reality creation are in some ways very similar to each other. However, in other ways, they are quite different. For both of these activities, there's always an action that takes place and ultimately the results always depend upon the reality that ultimately will be actualized.

I believe that you can influence reality creation by focusing upon what you want.  I also believe that psychics can and do influence the actualization of some predicted event, in that some people will "believe" that the psychics prediction will occur.



In the spoiler below I've written a simple analogy example of how I think this works.






I do believe that in predicting this illness in around 2020, Sylvia Browne influenced the creation of Covid-19 crisis that we're experiencing. Just exactly how much of an influence she had, I can't say.  I suspect that some of her followers read this "End of Days" book and probably remembered that she predicted this. Their thinking along with her prediction, may have had some influence on this becoming reality. However, I have no idea how much.


My instincts (which could be wrong) tell me that her impact was really minimal. I think that this was really about something else. Like should the world be OK with China, playing around with this kind of thing, given that they've already had Bird Flu and SARS issues.  Is the world just going to wait until they released something really bad, like pneumonic bubonic plague, which does have a very high fatality rate, before the world finally decides to do something about this.




But Seth tells us that mass events typically have multiple reasons of occurring. I also suspect that there may have been people who worked at the facility in China, who realized that what they were doing there was risky. Maybe some of them, or some of their upper level bosses may have "worried" that this might get out of control. If that's the case, then their "worrying" may have had a big influence on this.

Then again, maybe there were a lot of people who were directly and indirectly involved with this, and that became the cause. A lot of people "worried" that it would sooner or later get out of control. Or maybe even Covid-19 virus was released intentionally.

I suspect that there's also an international impact here. Should we, as a planet, be allowing this type of thing to occur? If we don't stop doing these kinds of things, will we end up killing all of ourselves off. Maybe that was the purpose.




May be she felt that if the pandemic occurred many more people would buy her book and she could make a lot of money.

I have no idea if she might have done this in order to sell more books. I have no idea who she really was.



It could be that this is how all fortune-telling works, by creating certain realities. Doctors sometimes tell patients that they have six months to live.

As I explained above, I do think that there's a relationship between psychic predictions and reality creation. There is also a component regarding peoples "beliefs" as well.  I'm convinced that those people who largely accept all that doctors and medical science have to say, can be heavily convinced by their doctors, when they're told by them that they only have 6 months to live.



-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
I think that psychic predictions and reality creation are in some ways very similar to each other. However, in other ways, they are quite different.

jbseth, the two are obviously not exactly the same, but it seems to me that psychic prediction and reality creation are aspects of the same process. Say I want to create a state of good health in myself. I CANNOT at the same time make a prediction that I will have a bad case of Covid 19 in a week's time. That would be risky. When I try to create a state of good health, I am at the same time making a psychic prediction that I will be in good health in a week's time.

Quote from: Sena
jbseth, the two are obviously not exactly the same, but it seems to me that psychic prediction and reality creation are aspects of the same process. Say I want to create a state of good health in myself. I CANNOT at the same time make a prediction that I will have a bad case of Covid 19 in a week's time. That would be risky. When I try to create a state of good health, I am at the same time making a psychic prediction that I will be in good health in a week's time.

Hi Sena, Hi All,


"jbseth, the two are obviously not exactly the same, but it seems to me that psychic prediction and reality creation are aspects of the same process."


I wouldn't say that they're aspects of the same process. They are different.

In a psychic prediction, a person is reacting to intuitive, telepathic or psychic information that they received. In reality creation, a person is focusing their attention and emotions upon something that they desire to experience.

Reality creation doesn't require "intuitive information" and psychic predictions doesn't require the person to focus their attention and emotions upon "something that they desire to experience".

However I would say that they both contain some of the same steps or same processes.

I should have written this spoiler information as follows:




Psychic Prediction: 
A psychic predicts that if a friend calls Sena on the phone at some specific future point in time, then Sena will answer the phone.

The following three events occur.

1. Telepathic communication takes place between all inner selves involved.

2. Sena's phone rings.
    At this point, Sena has options about what he can choose to do.
    He can either answer the phone, or he can let the caller leave a message.

3. Sena makes his choice.

     -  If Sena opts to answer the phone, the psychic's prediction is accurate.

     -  If Sena opts not to answer the phone the psychic's prediction is inaccurate.


Either scenario ultimately depends upon the choice that Sena opts to actualize. This is the action that I was referring to. 

This is the reason why sometimes psychic predictions can be accurately made and its also the reason why sometimes psychic predictions don't come true.




Reality Creation:
A friend wants to talk to Sena. This friend decides to "create his reality" by calling Sena on the phone.

The following three events occur.

1. Telepathic communication takes place between all inner selves involved.

2. Sena's phone rings.
    At this point, Sena has options about what he can choose to do.
    He can either answer the phone, or he can let the caller leave a message.

3. Sena makes his choice.

     -  If Sena opts to answer the phone the friend creates his own reality.

     -  If Sena opts not to answer the phone the friend doesn't create his own reality.


Either scenario ultimately depends upon the choice that Sena opts to actualize. This is the action that I was referring to. 

The result of this action is the reason why sometimes the desired reality will be created and it's also the reason why sometimes the desired reality won't be created.




"Say I want to create a state of good health in myself. I CANNOT at the same time make a prediction that I will have a bad case of Covid 19 in a week's time."


To be honest, I'm not convinced the you "CANNOT" do both at or about the same time, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to.




-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
"jbseth, the two are obviously not exactly the same, but it seems to me that psychic prediction and reality creation are aspects of the same process."


I wouldn't say that they're aspects of the same process. They are different.

jbseth, it seems to me that you are bending over backwards to make excuses for Sylvia Browne, who in fact has done something rather evil by making a substantial contribution to creating the reality of Covid 19 (Sharing responsibility as you say with the Chinese idiots).
The virus that Sylvia predicted was actually MORE evil than Covid 19, causing pneumonia in every sufferer. There may have been other reality creators who mitigated the evil.

Quote from: jbseth
3. Sena makes his choice.

     -  If Sena opts to answer the phone the friend creates his own reality.

     -  If Sena opts not to answer the phone the friend doesn't create his own reality.

jbseth, I would suggest that the friend creates his reality whether or not Sena opts to answer the phone. Creating one's reality is not limited to times in which the consciously desired result is achieved.

Quote from: Sena
jbseth, it seems to me that you are bending over backwards to make excuses for Sylvia Browne, who in fact has done something rather evil by making a substantial contribution to creating the reality of Covid 19

If Sylvia Browne was a fake and knew it, then a case can be made that her prediction was of ill intent. But if she genuinely believed in her psychic abilities and this prediction arose in a way that she trusted, then her sharing it was not of ill intent, regardless of whether it contributed to the creation of the virus. I don't even consider the virus as "evil", given Sethian ways of looking at the many possible reasons that this mass event is occurring, particularly how it is accelerating needed social changes.

Quote from: Sena
It could be that this is how all fortune-telling works, by creating certain realities. Doctors sometimes tell patients that they have six months to live.

Ah, the nocebo effect. I've read a few stories about this at work where a doctor tells a patient they have a fatal illness and they have a certain period of time to live. The patient dies, and it turns out they didn't have the illness! Reality creation at its worst. Thankfully not everyone buys into what they're told by authorities. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150210-can-you-think-yourself-to-death

I'd never been a fan of Sylvia Browne. Years ago someone gave me one of her books (something about spirit guides) and I could not relate.

Taking a look at her Wiki page, it seems she was a bit of a character. A convicted criminal for theft, four marriages, lots of misinformation regarding missing persons (which I find cruel). In 2008 she was charging $750 for 20 minute telephone readings and by 2010 her "business" was bringing in $3M a year.

I did find her virus prediction interesting, but considering how many of her predictions were wrong, it could have just been a matter of averages.

Going back to the first post in this thread, I've never had a problem with those two Seth quotes about predictions, as my interpretation is that while some people can make predictions that pan out, that has more to do with some probabilities having more weight than others due to a person's intentions and behavior predictability due to past choices (patterns)—the "certain lines of probability." And being told something is going to happen by a perceived authority (in this case, a psychic), is the nocebo effect again.

A tidbit from Mind to Matter: All things are possible in the field. An intention will collapse the swarm of possibilities in the direction of certain probabilities, from which we make a selection. Also a quote from Lynn McTaggart's The Intention Experiment, on the observer effect, "living consciousness is somehow central to this process of transforming the unconstructed quantum world into something resembling everyday reality," and "reality is not fixed, but fluid, and hence possibly open to influence... This suggests that human consciousness, individually and collectively, produces what we call 'reality.' "

Whether or not Sylvia got lucky with her prediction, I feel we all contributed to creating covid for whatever reasons. At least those of us who are affected by it to any degree (even if only hearing about it in the news and dealing with masks and the shutdowns). I also think that while people create with deliberate intent, many create, as Esther Hick's would say, "by default," meaning sloppy thinking (focusing, often in fear, on what's not wanted), being passive and without deliberate intent. We're here to learn how to create well.

Quote from: LarryH
jbseth, I would suggest that the friend creates his reality whether or not Sena opts to answer the phone. Creating one's reality is not limited to times in which the consciously desired result is achieved.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Nice catch LarryH.  I agree. 

Perhaps, what I should have said here, was:

     -  If Sena opts to answer the phone, the friend creates his "desired" reality.

     -  If Sena opts not to answer the phone, the friend doesn't create his "desired" reality.


-jbseth

Hi All,

Here's what I'm trying to say.  Sometime in the past, perhaps in the 2008, timeframe, Sylvia Browne wrote the following "prediction" in her book, "The End of Days".

"In around 2020 a severe pneumonia-like illness will spread throughout the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes and resisting all known treatments. Almost more baffling than the illness itself will be the fact that it will suddenly vanish as quickly as it arrived, attack again ten years later, and then disappear completely."



Was she a fake or was a legitimate psychic? I don't know and I don't care.

Was this a valid prediction or perhaps did she just get lucky here or was this perhaps just the law of averages? I don't know and I don't care.

Were many of her psychic predictions later on determined to be completely wrong or completely off base. Maybe, but again, I don't know and I don't care.

Was she a convict or a criminal? I don't know and I don't care.



Now, along with this, do psychics occasionally predict disastrous events? Yes, that's not uncommon.

Are psychics "evil" when they do so, because they potentially create that reality when the predicted event occurs? That's for each of you to decide for yourselves.




Am I bending over backwards to make excuses for Sylvia Browne. No, because to be perfectly honest, I've never much cared for her one way or the other. Just like I also never much cared for "A Course in Miracles" or JZ Knights "Ramtha" channelings or the teachings of Abraham, by Jerry and Esther Hicks. I've never found much interest in any of these things and I know, you know what I mean by this because I'm sure that each one of you also have your own list of writings that you never much cared for either.


Now, here's the thing. Did Sylvia Browne, in her book "The End of Days" write a prediction that contained the following information?

"In around 2020 an illness will spread throughout the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes."


Yes.

Does it appear that these predicted things actually occurred in 2020?

Yes.



I've never been that impressed with Sylvia Browne, and I seriously doubt that anyone here was more "shocked" by this prediction of hers than me. I wouldn't have been surprised if this had been predicted by, for example, Ingo Swann, Allison DuBois, John Edward or perhaps Theresa Caputo, but I was really "shocked" when I found out that Sylvia Browne had predicted this.



-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Now, here's the thing. Did Sylvia Browne, in her book "The End of Days" write a prediction that contained the following information?

"In around 2020 an illness will spread throughout the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes."

jbseth, that reveals her intention. People who write books for mass consumption need to be careful what they say.

Sena, would you then suggest that Edgar Cayce was evil, given that he also predicted scary future events?

One of the most fascinating examples of a prediction that "sort of" came true was from Jean Dixon. I remember reading in a Reader's Digest article her prediction in which those evil Soviets would place a satellite with multiple nuclear warheads into orbit. She could see the letters MIRV on the satellite. And this did come true, except for one detail. The MIRV was a multiple nuclear warhead satellite put in orbit by the U.S. It would appear that her prediction was filtered through her political views.

Hi LarryH, Hi Sena, Hi All,

LarryH,  yeah, Jean Dixon also was said to have predicted John Kennedy's assassination.


I'm aware of a couple of others too, like Ruth Montgomery and Arthur Ford.


Years ago I use to read Ruth Montgomery's books on occasion as I've always been fascinated with psychic things.

Many of Ruth's predictions were of catastrophic type events. As I recall, in the late 1970s' to early 1980's she predicted that in the mid 1980's WWIII would occur. She said that it would start in Somalia, and lead to the Middle east, where the Somalia dictator would try to overrun the Middle East. This would eventually lead both the Soviet Union and the US into a world wide conflict.

Whew, I'm glad that we chose differently. 

However, I've always thought it was interesting that, in some ways, she was not too far off. In 1991, Sadam Hussein invaded Kuwait.

 

Sena, I don't think that psychics have ever bothered with holding back on their predictions.  Ruth Montgomery sure didn't.

Along with this, I'm not sure that many of them ever even considered the possibility that their psychic predictions might possibly bring about the creation of that predicted reality.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeane_Dixon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Montgomery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ford_(psychic)


-jbseth

I imagine even if a psychic is genuine in their abilities, predictions far into the future would be difficult and tricky because of free will and intentions. I remember Jeane Dixon, she was always in the news. When I read the wiki on her I had to laugh: when she was on her deathbed she said "I knew this would happen." I wonder if they put that on her headstone? I thought the term " 'the Jeane Dixon effect'... which references a tendency to promote a few correct predictions while ignoring a larger number of incorrect predictions.[1] Many of Dixon's predictions proved erroneous,.." was interesting. I followed a link in the footnotes to a different article, and a couple of links in that article, and the pattern was the various psychics did or may have made a correct prediction, but also made many more that were inaccurate. Which made me think:

Quote from: jbseth
I'm glad that we chose differently.

is also at play. Such as, how many predictions of harmful events don't happen because the psychic actually warned the general public and therefore they were averted? I bet Dean Koontz could come up with a book about that: a very accurate and real psychic gets a bad reputation because his predictions never come true, where in fact he actually prevents them and is really a superhero. [Psychic quietly smiles to himself.] I recently read Odd Thomas and loved it, it's sort of along those lines.

This is more in the synchronicity or premonition category, but here's an article I came across that I thought was interesting: https://listverse.com/2011/12/12/10-famous-people-who-avoided-death-on-911/

Quote from: Deb
I bet Dean Koontz could come up with a book about that: a very accurate and real psychic gets a bad reputation because his predictions never come true, where in fact he actually prevents them and is really a superhero. [Psychic quietly smiles to himself.] I recently read Odd Thomas and loved it, it's sort of along those lines.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Its interesting that you should mention this, Deb.


Wow, I think we have another synchronous event. 


Check out the comments on the link below about "Dean Koontz's" 1981 book titled, "The Eyes of Darkness". It appears that he may have used the term "Wuhan-400" for a killer virus in that book. Wuhan China, being the place where some have thought that Covid-19, came from.

I just came across this link, for the first time, yesterday I think it was. This is a link that came from another link that came from Sena, I believe, in regards to Sylvia Browne's book predicting Covid-19 in 2020. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/coronavirus-dean-koontz-eyes-of-darkness-conspiracy-wuhan-china-symptoms-a9364386.html


-jbseth

OMG thank you, I totally forgot about that. While Browne's prediction was all over Facebook when this CV became a "thing," there was also mention of Koontz's book and prophecy. I never followed through to check it out. Will do so now.

BTW during this whole virus episode my mind kept going back to King's The Stand and Captain Trips. It's my absolute favorite King book*, something I'd imagined when I was a kid, entertaining myself when trying to fall asleep at night. In King's book, details on how the virus was unleashed and spread were an education. Of course, King injected a supernatural element.

Life imitating art?

*Well, okay, The Shining is also a favorite. I'm a couple of hours away from the Stanley Hotel, which gave King the idea for the book. I actually stayed in the same room as he did. And the hotel is where I had my first paranormal experience. I actually saw a small part of the filming for the series (not the original movie), but that was in a studio where the old Stapleton Airport used to be located.

Quote from: LarryH
Sena, would you then suggest that Edgar Cayce was evil, given that he also predicted scary future events?

Larry, I don't know much about Cayce. Did he predict that nasty things would happen to people, and did those nasty things actually happen? It may be that Cayce was not as effective as Sylvia Browne in creating reality.

Cayce is said to have predicted World War 2 in 1935. That was no big deal. Many intelligent people in 1935 would have known that Germany was re-arming, and that war was a strong possibility.

https://www.edgarcayce.org/the-readings/ancient-mysteries/seven-prophecies-that-came-true/

What is interesting about Sylvia Browne is that, as jbseth has pointed out, she made a very specific prediction:

QuoteNow, here's the thing. Did Sylvia Browne, in her book "The End of Days" write a prediction that contained the following information?

"In around 2020 an illness will spread throughout the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes."

Quote from: jbseth
I just came across this link, for the first time, yesterday I think it was. This is a link that came from another link that came from Sena, I believe, in regards to Sylvia Browne's book predicting Covid-19 in 2020.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/coronavirus-dean-koontz-eyes-of-darkness-conspiracy-wuhan-china-symptoms-a9364386.html

jbseth, thanks for reminding me. There are some differences between Koontz and Browne:

(1) Koontz was writing fiction. He did not claim to be predicting the future.

(2) Koontz was not as specific as Browne. He did not mention the lungs and bronchial tubes.

Larry Dossey has pointed out the possible negative effects of prayer. In the same way, those who make psychic predictions should be careful:

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1881.0

Quote from: jbseth
Sena, I don't think that psychics have ever bothered with holding back on their predictions.  Ruth Montgomery sure didn't

jbseth, I think we need to distinguish between precognition and prophesying. Precognition is harmless and clearly not evil. Prophesying is potentially evil. An example of precognition is that there are stories that, prior to the events of 9/11, some passengers cancelled their flights and did not get on the planes which subsequently crashed. The passengers who did not board the planes were clearly not responsible for creating the reality of the crashes. Only the terrorists and their leaders were responsible for that.

Quote from: Sena
I think we need to distinguish between precognition and prophesying. Precognition is harmless and clearly not evil. Prophesying is potentially evil. An example of precognition is that there are stories that, prior to the events of 9/11, some passengers cancelled their flights and did not get on the planes which subsequently crashed. The passengers who did not board the planes were clearly not responsible for creating the reality of the crashes. Only the terrorists and their leaders were responsible for that

Wow, good point.

Quote from: Sena
(2) Koontz was not as specific as Browne. He did not mention the lungs and bronchial tubes.

After reading an article in Reuters about Koontz's book, I have the feeling that "his" virus was inspired by King's The Stand. King's book came out in 1978, is about a virus created in a lab in the US. There was an accident in the lab and one infected escaped, gathered his family, and hit the road. He was patient zero and spread the infection to others, and those to others, and so on. In a sinister act, the government sent the disease to our "enemy" countries to lower the playing field. Koontz's virus shares more similarities to Kings' virus than to CV19. And the labs in Wuhan have been around since 1956. Biological warfare has been around since the Middle Ages but perfection started in the 1800s. It was used by the Germans in WWI, and we've all heard about ricin and cyanide attacks. Koontz would have researched all of this for the book. He's a good writer, but I remember thinking in the past that he sometimes borrows from King.

Anyway, while I don't doubt some people are able to occasionally get an impression of future events, I still feel that we as individuals make our own reality and have the ability to partake or abstain from the event. I don't think someone making a prediction (or praying) is going to cause harm to others unless they opt in. For instance, the people who cancelled their 911 flights vs. those who boarded the planes.

I do think we can harm and sabotage ourselves as our minds/beliefs/thoughts are very powerful. I don't think of prophesy itself as being potentially evil, anyone can prophesize... it's a matter of getting people to believe them.

"Whatever your conscious mind assumes and believes to be true, your subconscious mind will accept and bring to pass."
—TES9 ESP Class May 6, 1969

But I do think that some who prophesize have ill intentions or are mentally ill, such as cult leaders that manipulate their followers like with Heaven's Gate. Cayce wasn't like that as far as I know.

Quote from: Sena
The passengers who did not board the planes were clearly not responsible for creating the reality of the crashes. Only the terrorists and their leaders were responsible for that.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

My understanding of what Seth says about this, is a little different than yours.



In TES9, S509: Seth says the following.

It is this inner self, out of the massive knowledge and unlimited scope of its consciousness, that forms the physical world, that provides stimuli to keep the ego constantly at the job of awareness. It is the inner self, termed here the inner ego, that organizes, initiates, projects, controls the EE units of which we have been speaking lately, transforming energy into objects, into matter.

[...]

An individual inner self, then, through constant massive effort of great creative intensity, cooperates with all other inner selves to form and maintain the physical reality that you know, so that physical reality is an offshoot or by-product of (pause), the highly conscious creative inner self.


Along with this, according to Deb's link, at the last minute Mark Wahlberg changed his plans and didn't board Flight 11 from Boston to LA.


Given what Seth says in S509, it is my understanding that, Mark Wahlberg's inner self, through cooperation with all other inner selves, created his 911 experience. Along with this the inner selves of the all the terrorists on those planes and all the passengers on those planes, through cooperation with all other inner selves, created their 911 experience. Finally, in addition to this, both your inner self and my inner self, through cooperation with all other inner selves, created our 911 experience.


This is "my" interpretation of how mass events like 911 are created. We all participate for our own purposes, in our own unique and individual way.  Furthermore, I'd say that while this is true for 911, it is also true for Covid-19.



Sincerely, Thank you for inspiring me to write this post and for helping me to see this mass event understanding so clearly.  Please don't misunderstand, I'm not being arrogant here. I often learn a lot about "my" understanding of what Seth has to say, by thinking about and responding to comments that I see here on this forum.

- jbseth

Quote from: Sena
Larry, I don't know much about Cayce. Did he predict that nasty things would happen to people, and did those nasty things actually happen?

Hi Sena,

As I said, I've always been interested in psychic things. Like I said, years ago I use to read books by Ruth Montgomery and I also read some by Edgar Cayce. He was often called "the sleeping prophet".

A lot of his work was focused on healing people. People would write to him about their personal health issues. He would go to "sleep" on a couch (I think that maybe he was using self hypnosis or meditating) and while doing so, he would tap into some inner information on things that they could do to heal themselves.

Along with this, he also tapped into information about the past (life in Atlantis, Lemuria and that kind of thing, as well as stories about the life Jesus) and the the future. 
 
He made some apocalyptic type of predictions of the future. Many to occur in his future, at that time. This future was around the time of the end of the twentieth century.  As far as I'm aware, not many of these have actually occurred.

Here's a website that talks about some of his predictions.

http://www.alamongordo.com/the-edgar-cayce-predictions/

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
As I said, I've always been interested in psychic things. Like I said, years ago I use to read books by Ruth Montgomery and I also read some by Edgar Cayce. He was often called "the sleeping prophet".

A lot of his work was focused on healing people.

jbseth, thanks for that information. Cayce seems to have been someone quite different in character to Sylvia Browne.

Quote from: jbseth
I often learn a lot about "my" understanding of what Seth has to say, by thinking about and responding to comments that I see here on this forum.

Me too. And *coincidentally* this came from FB today (see attachment below).

Edgar Cayce was apparently a very religious person, read the entire bible every year, taught at Sunday school. Seth said this about him:

Quote from: Seth, session 744, unpublished (?)
"So in your time Christian fundamentalists militantly bear the swords of many extremist doctrines not accepted any more by the general Christian community. They arouse old fears and superstitions, on the other hand the religious concepts that point toward your future also exist in the same underground of the culture, yet often couched in conventional Christian terms.

So Edgar Cayce interpreted his revelations so as to make them fit in with his conventional Christian beliefs."

I see Cayce as more like Jane Roberts, in that he channeled source while in trance, held psychic training classes, was always trying to help people. I thought this was a great anecdote from the wiki page regarding his early abilities (he communicated with dead relatives, saw auras, etc):

"The next night, after a complaint from the school teacher, his father ruthlessly tested him for spelling, eventually knocking him out of his chair with exasperation. At that point, Cayce 'heard' the voice of the lady who had appeared the day before. She told him that if he could sleep a little 'they' could help him. He begged for a rest and put his head on the spelling book. When his father came back into the room and woke him up, he knew all the answers. In fact, he could repeat anything in the book. His father thought he had been fooling before and knocked him out of the chair again. Eventually, Cayce used all his school books that way."

His Association for Research and Enlightenment still exists in Virginia. While I have not read any of Cayce's books, I did read a few books about him. Interesting stuff.

Quote from: Deb
Edgar Cayce was apparently a very religious person

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Thanks for that. I agree. It is my understanding that Edgar Cayce was quite religious (Christian).

As I recall, I think that Ruth Montgomery and Jeane Dixon, were also somewhat religious (Christian).

You could pick this up from some of the things that they wrote or talked about. 




I always use to wonder, how much of their Christian based beliefs acted as a filter.

For me, this was always an issue, because when I was younger (before Seth) I tended to be much more anti-Christain (and much more scientific-oriented) than I am today.

However, even at that time, I also found OBE's, NDE's, ghosts, psychic things, and UFO's for example, to be very interesting. 

-jbseth

Quote from: Deb
I'm a couple of hours away from the Stanley Hotel, which gave King the idea for the book. I actually stayed in the same room as he did. And the hotel is where I had my first paranormal experience.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

That's awesome. 

Is that the place where Jack Nicholson, hacks into the door with an axe, and says, "Here's Johnny"?

Wow, you had a paranormal experience there too. Would you be willing to share that with us (if not or if its personal - its OK if you don't)


https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=E9w-X73zF66r0PEPm9qmkAM&q=here%27s+Johnny&oq=here%27s+Johnny&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIICC4QsQMQkwIyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAgguMgIIADICCC4yAggAMgIIADICCAA6CwguELEDEIMBEJMCOgsILhCxAxDHARCjAjoICC4QsQMQgwE6CAguEMcBEKMCOgUIABCxAzoOCC4QsQMQxwEQowIQkwI6CAgAELEDEIMBOggILhDHARCvAToFCC4QsQNQ4glYzbwCYI3DAmgCcAB4AIABuAGIAf4PkgEEMTUuNpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwj9yNvMzqrrAhWuFTQIHRutCTIQ4dUDCAw&uact=5#spf=1597955133802


-jbseth

Two posts regarding the paranormal have been split off to a new topic "Personal Paranormal Experiences" under a new board "Paranormal" and can be found here:

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=2083

How fun to have a new board! I hope we get some good stories.

Hi All,

My sister lives in East Texas, about 50 miles from the Louisiana border, and perhaps about half way up this border from the Gulf of Mexico to the northern Louisiana / Arkansas board.

Right now the National Hurricane Center is predicting that two tropical storms are heading in that general direction. One of these Marco, is predicted to move right into Louisiana in the general location of New Orleans.

The other one, Laura, is heading right for the Texas / Louisiana border.

At this point, given that both of these two storms are probably only days apart from each other, it seems to me that there is definitely a risk of major flooding taking place in this area of the world, in the next week or so.

I wouldn't exactly call this a psychic prediction of a pending mass event, but for me it calls to mind the flood that Jane and Rob experienced in Elmira, in 1972, as a result of the remnants of Hurricane Agnes. Not only the flood, but all the reasons associated with it that Seth talked about in NOPR, Ch 18.

If this set of events, does turn out to cause a flood in this area of the US, I wonder what the people in the area have been thinking about, that may have drawn this to them.


https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/


-jbseth

Boy 2020 will sure be a year we won't soon forget, don't you think?

I've been wondering about the hurricanes as well. I imagine the states around the Gulf are better prepared for flooding than other areas, but a one-two punch may be a bit more than planned for. They do have to deal with the possibility of hurricanes every summer, year after year. Gotta wonder what's up with that non-changing scenario.

While Seth said that weather and "natural disasters" are our own work,

"Catastrophies, such as earthquakes or floods, are not perpetuated by certain elements of nature against other portions of itself. [...] You each participate in the creation of each thunderstorm, each new spring, each flood, earthquake, and summer rain."
—NoPR Chapter 17: Session 664, May 21, 1973

he also said that some people are drawn to certain areas that are prone to natural events:

"Those in earthquake regions are attracted to such spots because of their innate understanding of the astonishing relationship between exterior circumstances and their own quite private mental and emotional patterns."
—NoPR Chapter 18: Session 664, May 21, 1973

So besides the thoughts and intentions of people living in those areas, I have to consider that people are there because they are drawn to them. In which case, the residents may have similar thought patterns...

Is this another "chicken or the egg" situation?