~Speaking of Seth~

Hi All,

It seems to me that "Mass Events" is one of the more complex ideas that Seth has talked about. In some ways it seems to be a very simple idea, you and everyone (everything) else creates the mass world that you live in. However, in other ways it seems very complex. If I create my reality, then how come we have this COVID issue this year? That wasn't anything that I was interested in creating. How is it that this event has occurred even given that I certainly don't feel like it was something that I wanted?

Does the world's mass reality creation supersede the creation of individual reality? Sometimes it appears to work that way.

Here's another question, when I say that "I" create my reality, who exactly is this "I"? Is it the "I" who's my outer ego self who creates its reality (I think that's the idea here). However maybe this refers to the "I" who's my inner self, or perhaps even the "I" who's my oversoul or entity instead.  In NOPR, Seth seemed to indicate that this I, is at least my conscious self (not my inner self or entity).



Having read NOME several times in the last two years and I'm starting to pick up on some issues that appear to be involved in mass reality creation.  One issue is that there seems to be some different issues involved in the various types of mass events that can occur.  In NOME, Seth basically starts out talking about plagues, flu and mass illness type of events. Then a little later he talks about natural disasters.  In the later parts of the book, he talks about the Jim Jones mass suicide event and the Three Mile Island nuclear accident event.  In this book, Seth barely seems to touch on war, another mass event, but he does touch on it briefly in different 2 places.

At a grand scale, there seems to be different issues going on with some of these different types of mass events. For example, natural disasters all seem to have a general relationship to "nature" and an element of how well or how much we are in touch with nature, in them.  This element may or may not exist some of the other types of mass events.  Along these lines, mass events like plagues and flu all seem to have an element having to do with "health" and "beliefs about health" as well as "society related issues" with them. Once again, some of these elements don't necessarily seem to exist in other mass event scenarios. Then again, the Jim Jones mass suicide event seemed to have "religious and cult" type issues, while the Three Mile Island event had issues to do with "science".

It may be that to really understand mass events, we also need to understand something about the different categories of mass events, and the specific elements that can and do exists in them.  At this point it seems that we have perhaps separate mass events in the categories of: 1) plagues and flu, 2) natural disasters, 3) war, 4) religions and cults and 5) science. I'm not sure these are the only major categories that do exist for mass events.


As I'm writing this, the thought just occurred to me that maybe, to really understand mass events, we don't need to try to figure out what's going on here with all of these questions and all of these different categories. Instead, maybe the real solution here, is to tune into our inner selves, open up to Framework 2, get the answers in this way, instead.

(I think that this thought, just now, was perhaps a nudge from my inner self) 

- jbseth

Hi jbseth

Thank you for taking up my suggestion (in another thread) to explore the ways the creation of reality on a personal and on a mass level are interwoven with each other by giving this a topic of its own. I believe that this rarely addressed question is of utmost importance if we truly wish to gain deeper insights into Seth's basic teaching: "You make your own reality".

I find your approach of differentiating between various types of mass events and relating them to particular kinds of mass-psychological and behavioral issues very worthwhile. At the same time, I feel we must be careful not to oversimplify things, as, e.g., the current pandemic seems to have much to do not only with "society related issues", but also with "how well or how much we are in touch with nature" - as its origin has been attributed to animal testing in a Chinese laboratory and several meat markets and meat factories have been instrumental in its dissemination. Moreover, on the upside, it did serve to much of the usual industrial and traffic activities on hold, greatly reducing the pollution of nature temporarily, supposedly providing the latter with some much needed rest. This could be thought of as one of this occurrence's goals, in the way of Aristotle's final cause.

If you do get some answers not by intellectual analysis but by tuning into framework 2, that's awesome, but make sure you share them here in comprehensible English! 

I am pretty sure that I will come back to this thread soon... And I hope that plenty of forum members will be inclined to participate and share their insights into this fascinating, but (seemingly) so complex topic.

Hi All,

In reading through NOME last night, I came across, what was for me, a lightbulb moment; a new understanding of the nature of mass events and why sometimes they seem so incomprehensible to me (like why specifically did we choose to become involved in COVID-19).

This new understanding comes from 3 specific sessions in NOME. (Ch3, S822,   Ch3, S823   and   Ch4, S827)

In the spoilers below I'll paraphrase and quote what Seth says here in these 3 sessions.









What has often been a problem for me in the past, is that oftentimes, our involvement in mass events like COVID-19 has been incomprehensible to me.  What has often eluded me in the past, is this awareness that sometimes we're not consciously aware of our involvement in mass events. While I grasped the idea, that we weren't consciously aware, I failed to understand "why" we weren't consciously aware of this. 


So here's what I understand now. Sometimes we're not consciously aware of our involvement in mass events. This fact can sometimes make our involvement in them seem somewhat incomprehensible. Furthermore, this can also make it appear that they happen "to" us, which can make it appear that we are victims of some mass events.

The reason that this occurs, the reason why we're not consciously aware of mass events, is because sometimes we filter out this information from our inner selves via our beliefs, desires and intents. In addition to this, we may also suffer from a belief in the "myth" that we only receive data from our outer senses.

Given this then, it seems that it might be possible to tune into our inner self and get some insights on how and why the world chose to become involved in a mass event like COVID-19.

- jbseth

That's really interesting, jbseth, but the question remains if, on a personal level, we could have somehow chosen not get involved with this "pandemic reality".

Hi Michael,

Well, I do think that there are probable realities, that exist for the year 2020, that we do exist in, that do not contain the COVID - 19 issue. 

I'm not sure why, we chose to experience this one instead?

-jbseth

Hi All,

Good topic Jbseth!  I admit the creation of mass events have been on my mind for quite some time, now.
Perhaps CV19 is a reflection of something else?

Speaking personally for myself, I can't help but notice the political climate. Imo,  politics in general is just religious drama repacked with pretty new wrapping and a bow. Each person is usually convinced their side is right and good, while the other side is bad and evil. I wonder where that kind of emotional, creative energy would go?

What does religion and politics have in common? The Saviour complex. What is a Saviour Complex if not being saved by someone, or something else. Of course that very ideology would by its very nature mean a person has given up the responsibility and means of creating their own reality. And it's a lie as well, much as I personally think CV19 itself is.

Maybe they are mirrors of each other?  Just my thoughts.

Quote from: T.M.
Imo,  politics in general is just religious drama repacked with pretty new wrapping and a bow.

T.M., that is a very interesting way of looking at politics when there is a lot of emotion involved. When the German people voted for Hitler in 1932, they were voting for a savior. If you look at videos of the Nuremberg rallies, they were clearly mass religious events.

QuoteAnd it's a lie as well, much as I personally think CV19 itself is.

I need to keep reminding myself of the Seth teaching that every individual chooses the time and mode of their death.

Quote from: T.M.
What does religion and politics have in common? The Saviour complex. What is a Saviour Complex if not being saved by someone, or something else. Of course that very ideology would by its very nature mean a person has given up the responsibility and means of creating their own reality. And it's a lie as well, much as I personally think CV19 itself is.

Wow, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think most people will fight to protect their core beliefs, but nothing sets people off like their political or religious beliefs being questioned. Not everyone of course, I think some people are able to step back and discuss such things in a rational manner, but they seem to be the minority to me.

I wonder why people feel the need for a savior, a parent figure? Is it because humans are herd animals?

Quote from: jbseth
Well, I do think that there are probable realities, that exist for the year 2020, that we do exist in, that do not contain the COVID - 19 issue.

I'm not sure why, we chose to experience this one instead?

Me either, the reason is not obvious to me. We may never know on "this" level (thinking of the quote from S827 about mass events being formed by many small, invisible happenings). The reasons behind these dramas we create are not reality available to us in F1, other than we are to learn something important from it. And its being a world-wide event, more so than any war or natural disaster, tells me the world's population needs to learn from this event. And like all mass events, such as the plane crash scenario that Seth describes, some people are more "involved" in a mass event, while others only view it from a distance or not at all. Someone I know was in Amish country this summer, checking out in a grocery store, and there were some Amish in line. No masks or anything. He asked them about how the CV was affecting the community and they had no idea what he was talking about!

I'm also not convinced the virus came from bats in the market, and how this affects the purpose of this mass event. That would then mean intent.

"Covid-19 genetically engineered to target humans"
https://en.as.com/en/2020/09/15/latest_news/1600196698_232755.html

"Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route"
https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X2EN_2gzbIW

Biological warfare is nasty business, much more efficient in killing large masses of the population while not affecting the earth's environment (such as a nuclear blast would.)

So yes, I think our only hope of understanding mass events like this would be to tune into our inner selves.

Quote from: Deb
"Covid-19 genetically engineered to target humans"
https://en.as.com/en/2020/09/15/latest_news/1600196698_232755.html

Deb, that is an absolutely shocking revelation, and it sounds credible.
Chinese virologist Li-Meng Yan's full report is here:

https://gnews.org/354881/

"Motives aside, the following facts about SARS-CoV-2 are well-supported:
1. If it was a laboratory product, the most critical element in its creation, the backbone/template virus
(ZC45/ZXC21), is owned by military research laboratories.
2. The genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2 has likely undergone genetic engineering, through which
the virus has gained the ability to target humans with enhanced virulence and infectivity.
3. The characteristics and pathogenic effects of SARS-CoV-2 are unprecedented. The virus is highly
transmissible, onset-hidden, multi-organ targeting, sequelae-unclear, lethal, and associated with
various symptoms and complications.
4. SARS-CoV-2 caused a world-wide pandemic, taking hundreds of thousands of lives and shutting
down the global economy. It has a destructive power like no other."

"What is not thoroughly described in this report is the various evidence indicating that several
coronaviruses recently published (RaTG1318, RmYN0230, and several pangolin coronaviruses27-29,31) are
highly suspicious and likely fraudulent. These fabrications would serve no purpose other than to deceive
the scientific community and the general public so that the true identity of SARS-CoV-2 is hidden."

Quote from: Deb
I wonder why people feel the need for a savior, a parent figure? Is it because humans are herd animals? Quote from: jbsethWell, I do think that there are probable realities, that exist for the year 2020, that we do exist in, that do not contain the COVID - 19 issue. I'm not sure why, we chose to experience this one instead?Me either, the reason is not obvious to me. We may never know on "this" level (thinking of the quote from S827 about mass events being formed by many small, invisible happenings). The reasons behind these dramas we create are not reality available to us in F1, other than we are to learn something important from it. And its being a world-wide event, more so than any war or natural disaster, tells me the world's population needs to learn from this event. And like all mass events, such as the plane crash scenario that Seth describes, some people are more "involved" in a mass event, while others only view it from a distance or not at all. Someone I know was in Amish country this summer, checking out in a grocery store, and there were some Amish in line. No masks or anything. He asked them about how the CV was affecting the community and they had no idea what he was talking about!

Hi Deb, Hi All,

I regards to why we chose COVID-19, I think that "maybe" the answer to this question may have something to do with what Seth said in UR1, Section 3, S697:

"Consciousness, by its nature, continually expands. The nature of consciousness as you understand it as a species will, in one way or another, lead you beyond your limited ideas of reality, for your experience will set challenges (COVID-19) that cannot be solved within your current framework. Those problems set by one level of consciousness will automatically cause breakthroughs into other areas of conscious activity, where solutions can be found."

- jbseth
 

Hi All,

Hi Sena,
"When the German people voted for Hitler in 1932, they were voting for a savior. If you look at videos of the Nuremberg rallies, they were clearly mass religious events."

Before this CV19 broke out I was watching a lot of YouTube vids about Germany. It very much struck me that yes, those were religious events playing out!

Hi Deb,
" I wonder why people feel the need for a savior, a parent figure? Is it because humans are herd animals?"

Something I've been wondering about for awhile. For example. We all know people who are abused as children come out "different" than kids who weren't. Seth says we pre-choose our environments and parents. Also that we tend to match the environment we mentally are at.
So then, are the people who choose that environment "different" pre- birth?
And that's the environment that they inherently matched?
Are humans here herd animals, or are the people here those that had/have a preexisting herd mentality? And are here working through that?
Essentially which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Same would go with the Saviour Meme. Are we predisposed to that through our current environment, or are we personality essences that need to work through that, and hence are here in a system that heavily reflects that paradigm?

Why did any of us choose a reality where CV19 exists?
Is CV19 an illness? Or is it a reflection of energy of something else we haven't dealt with? And the refusal to deal with that energy, has caused the energy to change what it appears as, like a chameleon, to hopefully finally get our attention?

Is that why it's a personal and world event?!

Just speaking for myself, I think this branch of reality is still playing out religious dramas. Just now it's called and looks like politics

Quote from: T.M.
Why did any of us choose a reality where CV19 exists?
Is CV19 an illness? Or is it a reflection of energy of something else we haven't dealt with? And the refusal to deal with that energy, has caused the energy to change what it appears as, like a chameleon, to hopefully finally get our attention?

Is that why it's a personal and world event?!

T.M., I agree. Th fact is that only a small proportion of those who catch Covid 19 will die. We all need to look at "something else we haven't dealt with".

QuoteAre humans here herd animals, or are the people here those that had/have a preexisting herd mentality? And are here working through that?

The use of the word "herd" here is interesting. There is a view that the only way to overcome the Covid 19 problem is for humans to develop herd immunity.

Hi All,

The radio station that I listen to here in the Portland, Oregon area, K103, typically plays pop / rock music, "from the 80's, 90's and today."  I "wouldn't" say that this radio station is geared to either, conservatives, those who listen to country music or those who are Christian based.  However recently, I've noticed a new advertisement that they've started to play on this station every once in a while. In this advertisement, the words are spoken by Franklin Graham, who I believe, is a relative of the late "Billy Graham", the Christian evangelist. 

In this advertisement, Franklin starts out talking about Portland and the people who are wondering if we'll ever get Portland back again. While this may have something to do with the recent wildfires, I seem to recall hearing it before these started and so I  suspect that this probably has more to do with all the protests and riots that have been going on here for some time now.

In this advertisement, he says something like, "Look where we are now?" Then he talks about how we've taken God out of our schools, our government and society. Following this, he talks about how we can pray to God and God will listen. After this he tells us how to do this and says something like, "God I know that I'm a sinner and I ask for your forgiveness.,..."

It turns out that this advertisement is paid for by, "The Billy Graham Evangelical Society", and here's their website.

https://billygraham.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=brandedsearch&SOURCE=BY130DNMG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrL2u6vfw6wIVBj6tBh0mYQrJEAAYASAAEgIbnvD_BwE



I would say that here, Franklin Graham seems to be implying that we have these problems because we've taken God out of our schools, out of our government and out of our society.

I find it interesting in that we've just started talking about mass events once again, here in this forum and here's a great, real time example of someone who seems to be of the mindset that we have these problems because, in this case, a lack of putting God into our schools, government and society.

I'm always amazed that these people don't seem to grasp the concept of freedom of religion. I suspect that they wouldn't be too happy if someone else put their God into our schools, government and society.

Here's some things that Seth talks about in NOME.



NOME, Ch4   S829:
If you look for signs of God's vengeance you will find them everywhere. An avalanche or a flood or an earthquake will not be seen as a natural act of the earth's natural creativity, but instead as a punishment from God for sin.



NOME, Ch 5,   S830:
As long as you believe that either good events or bad ones are meted out by a personified God as the reward or punishment for your actions, or on the other hand that events are largely meaningless, chaotic, subjective knots in the tangled web of an accidental Darwinian world, then you cannot consciously understand your own creativity, or play the role in the universe that you are capable of playing as individuals or as a species. You will instead live in a world where events happen to you, in which you must do sacrifice to the gods of one kind or another, or see yourselves as victims of an uncaring nature.


-jbseth

Quote from: Sena
Quote
Are humans here herd animals, or are the people here those that had/have a preexisting herd mentality? And are here working through that?

The use of the word "herd" here is interesting. There is a view that the only way to overcome the Covid 19 problem is for humans to develop herd immunity.

I believe it was just a day or two ago that Trump said that he thought that the virus would be overcome by "herd mentality". Sweden tried the herd immunity approach, and it was a dismal failure. We are nowhere near achieving that. Estimates are that if we were to rely on that, we would have to be alright with 2 or 2-1/2 million deaths in the U.S.

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,

I've decided, for myself anyways, that we are living in a simulation. To me it just makes sense that within this simulation there are theme rooms, or realities. Looks to me like this one is religion and politics. Which share many of the same characteristics.

So I guess that raises the question of just what kind of reality is allowed to be created here? Or are we just creating our own reactions to the main event(s)? How many faces does an event or current of energy have, or is capable of creating?

If this is a themed room of sorts, that doesn't necessarily negate creation. I suspect energy still flows. What would an event look like at different stages? Does it change what it looks like over time? If it never did I suspect the inhabitants might start catching on, if not get downright disinterested.

Quote from: LarryH
Estimates are that if we were to rely on that, we would have to be alright with 2 or 2-1/2 million deaths in the U.S.

Larry, I agree that a certain number of people will choose to die with a positive test for Covid 19, but I am not in a position to speculate on numbers.

Quote from: T.M.
I've decided, for myself anyways, that we are living in a simulation. To me it just makes sense that within this simulation there are theme rooms, or realities. Looks to me like this one is religion and politics. Which share many of the same characteristics.

T.M.. as I wrote on another thread yesterday, it seems that this simulation is not created just by human consciousnesses. Even microbes have consciousness, but it is only humans who have decided to play with religion and politics. Viruses like Covid 19 create the scenario for human games.

Hi All,

Hi Sena,

I can't explain all the ins and outs of this Simulation. Then again, I couldn't encapsulate everything Seth has taught in a few simple sentences either. I do suspect the SIM is created by more than just human consciousness. I've been working with the idea that all consciousness generates energy. When you have a conglomeration of energy living on say a planet, it forms a massive power bank of energy to be drawn from and used, and is possibly what allows for the structures in simultaneous time lines to exist, and form barriers that keeps all timelines separated.  Just some thoughts along that.

""Because of Christ, there was an England — and an Industrial Revolution."
—UR1 Section 2: Session 690 March 21, 1974

That's one long energy wave!  I've wondered about this statement ever since I read it when the Unknown Reality books came out.
How does the existence of Christ bring about England and the Industrial Revolution? Unless of course, religion and politics via wars and social engineering steer a mass of consciousness in that particular direction?!

We are exiting the age of Pisces and entering the age of Aquarius. CV19 will likely be the excuse that's used to destroy the old structures and usher in the new.

Quote from: T.M.
How does the existence of Christ bring about England and the Industrial Revolution? Unless of course, religion and politics via wars and social engineering steer a mass of consciousness in that particular direction?!

T.M., I find Seth's statements on Christ questionable. It is not clear whether Seth regards the Industrial Revolution as a good thing or a bad thing.

Quote from: Sena
T.M., I find Seth's statements on Christ questionable. It is not clear whether Seth regards the Industrial Revolution as a good thing or a bad thing.

I doubt that Seth regarded the Industrial Revolution as exclusively one or the other. Obviously, there were both "good" and "bad" things associated with the Industrial Revolution. It would be interesting to know how the world's history would have been different if there had been no Christianity. The Industrial Revolution did create a different way of experiencing this reality from prior history. The revolution provided a new way of being in the world, including humans participating in "creating" at a new level. In my profession, Industrial Design, I was able to combine art, technology, and invention of mass-produced products that I like to think were attractive and useful for millions of people. Without the revolution, I suppose I would have been fashioning useful stuff for my tribe. Soul development presumably requires a huge variety of experiences. Thus, even the "bad" elements of that revolution are learning experiences.

Hi All,

I don't want to disrupt the flow of conversation here but I recently came across a session where Seth talks about both mass and personal ideas and beliefs and I just wanted to quickly interject this information here because it seems so pertinent to this topic. It may also give us some insights into how we can deal with COVID-19.



Recently I came across a session (TES8, S342) where in a small portion of this session, Seth talks about both mass and personal events. What I find intriguing here is that he seems to somewhat explain some issues on both side of this situation (mass events and personal events) and how they interact with each other.

What I find really interesting here is that he seems to be suggesting that while mass beliefs can sometimes override personal beliefs, personal beliefs can also override mass beliefs.

I think that there might be something here that we can use in regards to how we can choose to view and deal with COVID-19.




In this session he talks about how mass events and ideas can seemingly sweep aside any conflicting ideas. He also talks about how the ideas behind a mass event aren't necessarily valid. For example he says that if wars are considered inevitable, then there will be wars. However, the point here is that this doesn't necessarily mean that wars are inevitable.


Along with this he also says that the ideas behind a personal belief aren't necessarily valid either. For example, he says that if you don't believe in reincarnation, then your disbelief in it, will make it appear that reincarnation isn't a valid concept. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that reincarnation isn't a valid concept.

Here's what Seth has to say in this session.



-jbseth

Hi jbseth

Nice contribution to this topic...

In particular, I like Seth's statement that

"...if you do not accept the idea of reincarnation, this does not mean that reincarnation is not a fact. It does mean that this insufficient energy will keep this reality at such a low ebb that it will not sufficiently materialize as an event within your system. For the egotistical self it will be a nonfact and the physical senses will of course find no sense data to confirm reincarnation."

The same applies to systems of alternative medicine, astrology, lost civilizations, extraterrestrials, ESP and other phenomena for which it is difficult to present hard evidence. And that's because for those who find the existence of such phenomena incompatible with their basic assumptions about the reality we live in, no evidence for them is hard enough to convince them otherwise. Whereas those whose basic assumptions are in line with them are satisfied with, or actively looking for, the available evidence.

Only once the prevailing paradigm has already shifted will there be undeniable evidence forthcoming for much of what Seth and like-minded sources have stated, so that it can be generally accepted.

Quote from: jbseth
I can definitely say that I'm pretty sure there are some Seth readers who would wage war against those who didn't acknowledge and agree their ideas.

Yep, we've had some incidents here with people arguing over who knows more about Seth, whose interpretations are "right." But nothing compared to what I've seen on Facebook between the self-proclaimed Seth experts. Nasty stuff. The first person to quit this forum left when I asked him to tone it down, he was upsetting some people. He told me that some members were ignorant, and he could not tolerate ignorance. Hah, can you imagine if Seth had that attitude?

Being a Seth reader does not necessarily make for saints. Egos can get in the way. And possibly some people making the Seth materials into dogma. My first thought was maybe Buddhist monks would be the only group immune to ego, greed and crime problems. Until I googled "criminal Buddhist monks" and came up with 54 million results.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
You simply have a different understanding of what "monotheism" implies

I find I often get hung up over definitions, compared to my internal interpretation, maybe adopted from family or school or my filters. It doesn't help that dictionary definitions sometimes differ. One of the very first topics here was being spontaneous vs. being impulsive. Until I'd read Seth, I had associated being spontaneous with immaturity and recklessness—being impulsive. It was interesting to learn how the words had different associations for others here.

Seth has taught me to allow myself to follow my spontaneity and that's been very rewarding. When I am spontaneous I have the most rewarding and satisfying experiences.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
"...if you do not accept the idea of reincarnation, this does not mean that reincarnation is not a fact. It does mean that this insufficient energy will keep this reality at such a low ebb that it will not sufficiently materialize as an event within your system. For the egotistical self it will be a nonfact and the physical senses will of course find no sense data to confirm reincarnation."

I wonder... since we have free will, is it possible to choose a probable reality where reincarnation does't exist at all? Hmmmm. It doesn't sound like it from this quote. Maybe it's a root assumption that we set up for this system, and then forgot about.

Quote from: Deb

Quote from: jbseth
I can definitely say that I'm pretty sure there are some Seth readers who would wage war against those who didn't acknowledge and agree their ideas.

Yep, we've had some incidents here with people arguing over who knows more about Seth, whose interpretations are "right." But nothing compared to what I've seen on Facebook between the self-proclaimed Seth experts. Nasty stuff. The first person to quit this forum left when I asked him to tone it down, he was upsetting some people. He told me that some members were ignorant, and he could not tolerate ignorance. Hah, can you imagine if Seth had that attitude?

Being a Seth reader does not necessarily make for saints. Egos can get in the way. And possibly some people making the Seth materials into dogma. My first thought was maybe Buddhist monks would be the only group immune to ego, greed and crime problems. Until I googled "criminal Buddhist monks" and came up with 54 million results.

For a while, I was a regular on a mixed spiritual forum that was known for its Buddhist practitioners flaming each other over interpretative questions. 

Quote

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
You simply have a different understanding of what "monotheism" implies

I find I often get hung up over definitions, compared to my internal interpretation, maybe adopted from family or school or my filters. It doesn't help that dictionary definitions sometimes differ. One of the very first topics here was being spontaneous vs. being impulsive. Until I'd read Seth, I had associated being spontaneous with immaturity and recklessness—being impulsive. It was interesting to learn how the words had different associations for others here.

Seth has taught me to allow myself to follow my spontaneity and that's been very rewarding. When I am spontaneous I have the most rewarding and satisfying experiences.

Cheers to that!

And there you have yet another area of overlap between Seth and Daoism, BTW.

Quote

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
"...if you do not accept the idea of reincarnation, this does not mean that reincarnation is not a fact. It does mean that this insufficient energy will keep this reality at such a low ebb that it will not sufficiently materialize as an event within your system. For the egotistical self it will be a nonfact and the physical senses will of course find no sense data to confirm reincarnation."

I wonder... since we have free will, is it possible to choose a probable reality where reincarnation does't exist at all? Hmmmm. It doesn't sound like it from this quote. Maybe it's a root assumption that we set up for this system, and then forgot about.

I once had a discussion with someone who believed that Earth's gravity was the result of our collective belief in it. I told him that, if that were the case, long before our existence, the dinosaurs would have floated off the surface of our planet... 

Quote from: Deb
I wonder... since we have free will, is it possible to choose a probable reality where reincarnation does't exist at all? Hmmmm. It doesn't sound like it from this quote.

Deb, that is a very interesting question. An atheist who is absolutely convinced that his existence will come to an end at the moment of death, will in fact finish his existence at that point. I do, however, suspect that no atheist is absolutely convinced of this, even though they keep their doubts well hidden. Even the slightest doubt will ensure that his existence will continue after death.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
I once had a discussion with someone who believed that Earth's gravity was the result of our collective belief in it. I told him that, if that were the case, long before our existence, the dinosaurs would have floated off the surface of our planet...

Michael, thanks for bringing up this interesting topic. I think the Sethian view is that Earth's gravity is in fact caused by every conscious inhabitant of the Earth, including microbes. I don't have an advanced knowledge of physics, but I am not aware of any explanation for the existence of gravity, Newton watched the apple fall, but he did not really explain what made it fall. He postulated a theoretical phenomenon named gravity, which follows certain rules.

"If ever in a dream experience you defy gravity, then gravity is not a primary reality, but only a manifestation within your own physical system. If clock time is escaped within the dream state, then clock time is not a primary."
—TES5 Session 208 November 15, 1965

"While men had their dream bodies alone they enjoyed a remarkable freedom, of course, for those bodies did not have to be fed or clothed. They did not have to operate under the law of gravity. Men could wander as they wished about the landscape. They did not yet identify themselves to any great degree (underlined) as being themselves separate from either the environment or other creatures."
—DEaVF1 Chapter 4: Session 899, February 6, 1980

"Dictation: When I speak of natural law, I am not referring to the scientists' laws of nature, such as the law of gravity, for example — which is not a law at all, but a manifestation appearing from the viewpoint of a certain level of consciousness as a result of perceptive apparatus."
—NoME Chapter 9: Session 863, June 27, 1979

There is also the phenomenon of human levitation. Jesus and St.Joseph of Cupertino are said to have done it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitation_(paranormal)

"Levitation may also be achieved when the sensitive is in excellent condition, and at the apex of the force field coordinates. The force field has definite space-time coordinates and a dimensional affect that permits the manipulation of molecules from one system to another."
—TES8 Session 376 October 30, 1967

"Even for example, levitation is involved with camouflage to a large degree, in that the camouflage physical body itself rises, but we are still here using the camouflage physical form. Traveling without the camouflage physical form is a giant step, of course, but a possible one according to your development. Here you are traveling however through camouflage space. It is very difficult on your level to do without any camouflage, and yet it can be done; and here again the use of psychological time is extremely important, since when psychological time is utilized to its fullest extent, then camouflage becomes lessened to an almost astounding degree.

[... 1 paragraph ...]

I am not going to give you any lessons for levitation, any more than I gave Ruburt lessons in clairvoyance."

—TES2 Session 43 April 13, 1964

"As a rule you do not go through walls with this body. This is the body that you use for ordinary dreams. Levitation is possible with it, but on a very limited basis.

When you enter a different dimension the abilities of the body form change, and for all intents and purposes it is a different body form, which we will call a mind form. It still seems physical in shape, but you can walk through physical matter with it, and you can truly levitate with it within your solar system, but you cannot go beyond in this mind form."

—TES6 Session 261 May 23, 1966

Hi All,

In Reply 21 above, I mentioned that in TES8, S342, Seth seemed to have some interesting things to say about both mass events & beliefs and personal events & beliefs. In the spoiler below, I've taken what he had to say in this session and modified it in regards to our recent mass event, COVID - 19. When we look at COVID in this way, Seth seems to be saying that our personal beliefs can impact how COVID will impact us. 






To me, this is what Seth seems to be saying about mass events and COVID-19 from both this specific session and from other sessions in books like NOME, where he talks about mass events.


Individually, many of us participate in the bringing about a mass event, like COVID-19. In addition to this, sometimes our inner selves will send us messages about this mass event. However we don't always consciously received this information because we filter out much of the infinite amount of data that's available to us from our inner self. As a result of this, we aren't always consciously aware of how or why we may have participated in the bringing about a mass event.


Our personal beliefs can and do impact our interactions with a mass event. If you believe that a mass event can or will harm you, (even if this belief isn't true) then you might very well be harmed by the mass event, as a result of your personal beliefs. Conversely, if you believe that the mass event can't or won't harm you, (even if this belief may not be true) then you may not be harmed by it, again as a result of your personal beliefs.


- jbseth

I thought this quote from actress Mandy Moore was consistent with Seth on why we would create a pandemic: "I think this period of recalibration was long needed and maybe couldn't have happened unless we found ourselves in the midst of a global pandemic and fight for racial justice. There's been this awakening in so many senses. I don't see things returning to the status quo, and that's good. We need change."

That's consistent with my main reason for "creating" a pandemic. Others may have different reasons, such as creating a way to die, creating a break from a stressful routine, having a reason to get creative or a reason to shift priorities.

Hi LarryH,

Is this the same Mandy Moore who was a famous singer in the past and is now on the show, "This is us"?

If so, I have to say that the few times and few things that I've heard about her, I've come away with the understanding the she really seems to be a person with a good head on her shoulders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Moore


-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Is this the same Mandy Moore who was a famous singer in the past and is now on the show, "This is us"?

Yep

Hi All,

In NOME, Chapter 1, Session 803, (see spoiler below) Seth tells us that natural disasters represent a prejudiced concept in which the vast creative and rejuvenation elements that are important to the planet are ignored. He tells us that the stability of the planet rests upon these changes, just like the stability of our bodies rests upon the birth and death of cells.  Along with this he also tells us that we are never victims of natural disasters, even though it might appear this way, because we had a hand in forming them.



Today, I came across some interesting information from Seth in UR2, S708.  In UR2, S708 (see spoiler below), Seth appears to be telling us that mankind has been studying the nature of consciousness. He says that mankind has been using consciousness in a particular way (as if it were apart from nature) in order to see nature and the world in a particular light.  He also tells us this has made mankind feel isolated, alone, and powerless.

Along with this, he tells us that mankind is learning how to use the light of his own consciousness. He says that mankind is studying what he can and can't do with that particular focus. He says that mankind is now discovering that he needs other lights also, that he has been relying upon only a small portion of an entire inner searchlight that can be used.



In this session, S708, Seth seems to be saying that just like individual human beings themselves, mankind itself also seems to have its own desires, intents and purposes. Furthermore, along with this, he also seems to be saying that mankind is also pursuing these desires, intents and purposes.



After reading this, I thought about this idea for a moment. Seth tells us that some mass events occur in support of the planet and its planetary needs. Given this then, is it possible that some mass events occur in support of mankind's purposes, intents and goals, as well?

Is it possible that the real reason COVID-19 occurred, has something to do with one of mankind's purposes, intents and goals?


Do you ever think about mass events from this "mankind" type of perspective? I know that I don't. Maybe that's one concept that's been missing in some of our discussions and understanding regarding, mass events.









-  jbseth

Quote from: Sena

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
I once had a discussion with someone who believed that Earth's gravity was the result of our collective belief in it. I told him that, if that were the case, long before our existence, the dinosaurs would have floated off the surface of our planet...

Michael, thanks for bringing up this interesting topic. I think the Sethian view is that Earth's gravity is in fact caused by every conscious inhabitant of the Earth, including microbes. I don't have an advanced knowledge of physics, but I am not aware of any explanation for the existence of gravity, Newton watched the apple fall, but he did not really explain what made it fall. He postulated a theoretical phenomenon named gravity, which follows certain rules.

Sena,

Are you suggesting that gravity (allegedly) can't be explained, because it is some kind of illusion? Now without going into concepts like the curvature of spacetime, gravitons, the pressure force theory of gravity, and so on, let me just state that gravity is no less illusionary than the rest of the physical universe, in fact, it's the force that is keeping the latter together. This holds true on the level of the solar system, the galaxy, and so on.

If gravity is seen as a product of consciousness, then I suggest not to  limit the latter to biological life forms (from microbes to humans), but to also grant atoms, planets and stars consciousness.

Quote"If ever in a dream experience you defy gravity, then gravity is not a primary reality, but only a manifestation within your own physical system. If clock time is escaped within the dream state, then clock time is not a primary."
—TES5 Session 208 November 15, 1965

"While men had their dream bodies alone they enjoyed a remarkable freedom, of course, for those bodies did not have to be fed or clothed. They did not have to operate under the law of gravity. Men could wander as they wished about the landscape. They did not yet identify themselves to any great degree (underlined) as being themselves separate from either the environment or other creatures."
—DEaVF1 Chapter 4: Session 899, February 6, 1980

"Dictation: When I speak of natural law, I am not referring to the scientists' laws of nature, such as the law of gravity, for example — which is not a law at all, but a manifestation appearing from the viewpoint of a certain level of consciousness as a result of perceptive apparatus."
—NoME Chapter 9: Session 863, June 27, 1979

There is also the phenomenon of human levitation. Jesus and St.Joseph of Cupertino are said to have done it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitation_(paranormal)

"Levitation may also be achieved when the sensitive is in excellent condition, and at the apex of the force field coordinates. The force field has definite space-time coordinates and a dimensional affect that permits the manipulation of molecules from one system to another."
—TES8 Session 376 October 30, 1967

"Even for example, levitation is involved with camouflage to a large degree, in that the camouflage physical body itself rises, but we are still here using the camouflage physical form. Traveling without the camouflage physical form is a giant step, of course, but a possible one according to your development. Here you are traveling however through camouflage space. It is very difficult on your level to do without any camouflage, and yet it can be done; and here again the use of psychological time is extremely important, since when psychological time is utilized to its fullest extent, then camouflage becomes lessened to an almost astounding degree.

[... 1 paragraph ...]

I am not going to give you any lessons for levitation, any more than I gave Ruburt lessons in clairvoyance."

—TES2 Session 43 April 13, 1964

"As a rule you do not go through walls with this body. This is the body that you use for ordinary dreams. Levitation is possible with it, but on a very limited basis.

When you enter a different dimension the abilities of the body form change, and for all intents and purposes it is a different body form, which we will call a mind form. It still seems physical in shape, but you can walk through physical matter with it, and you can truly levitate with it within your solar system, but you cannot go beyond in this mind form."

—TES6 Session 261 May 23, 1966

I am quite pleased that you posted these excerpts from parts of the Seth material that I am not so familiar with, as it puts Seth's statement that "the human body can't fly" (in NoPR or SS) into perspective.

As far as my personal experience is concerned, many years ago, while queuing at a store's cash, I once felt my body lose all its weight. I sensed I was about to levitate and, alas, it made me kind of panic: "Holy crap, what if I start float in the air in front of all the people here?!" So I made a deliberate attempt to focus on the floor and stay connected to it - which I regretted as soon as my curiosity got the better of me, because now I will never know if I had actually levitated had I given in to what I felt to be happening...

At any rate, I believe that that "levity" (as opposed to gravity) - aka anti-gravity - exists as a physical force under certain circumstances. Again, I would maintain that it is actually quite real, on its own terms, just !ike this whole system of physical reality is real on its own terms (albeit perhaps not from Seth's perspective), and as such ruled by a plethora of physical laws that make for its great coherence and reliability overall - which is not to say that these laws are valid in an absolute sense, because there are various ways to circumvent and transcend many of them.

Quote from: jbsethDo you ever think about mass events from this "mankind" type of perspective? I know that I don't. Maybe that's one concept that's been missing in some of our discussions and understanding regarding, mass events.

Sure, I do that alot.

In Theosophy, there is mention of Sanat Kumara, the ever evolving spirit of our planet. Even though it is admitted that there is no certainty as to what Sanat Kumara is actually evolving to. Readers of Alice A. Bailey will know what I am talking about.

Moreover, I feel this ties in with other concepts of the Earth being a living and conscious (!) organism, as e.g. Gaia theory states.

And the evolution of mankind cannot be separated from the evolution of our planet, for (on one level) we are her children and remain intimately connected to her.

Another concept that comes to mind is Teilhard de Chardin's "omega point", at which all of Creation realizes its identity with God.

It is interesting to consider what Seth has to say on this topic. I am pretty sure that (besides what has been quoted) there are plenty of hints, spread all throughout the Seth material...

Value fulfillment seems to be key!

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,

There's people that believe CV19 is real, and there's those that don't, or that it's not as advertised.
Then I got to thinking of Lynda Madden Dahls, Living in a Safe Universe series of books.
Then I started wondering, is this really just an issue of trust that mankind is working on?

The polar extremes of, either existence is inherently safe, or it isn't ?!
I could see some interesting lessons coming out of that kind of dynamic. Best case scenario, mankind learns it creates its body and environment, and is not at the mercy of it. Might take awhile to get there though.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
In Theosophy, there is mention of Sanat Kumara, the ever evolving spirit of our planet. Even though it is admitted that there is no certainty as to what Sanat Kumara is actually evolving to. Readers of Alice A. Bailey will know what I am talking about.Moreover, I feel this ties in with other concepts of the Earth being a living and conscious (!) organism, as e.g. Gaia theory states.

Hi Michael, Hi All,

Yes.

Sometimes when I think about the Planet, I think of the spirit of Gaia, or Mother Earth, etc. but usually for me, this includes the Earth and everything that lives on it.

I also sometimes think about the spirit of the forests, for example or the spirit of the wind.

Oddly enough though, I rarely if ever think about the spirit of mankind, or the spirit of the crocodiles, or the spirit of the amoebas, for example.  I don't know why exactly. 

Perhaps this is because, I don't typically think of "spirit" as existing in the form of a mass animal or plant species.


-jbseth

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
Are you suggesting that gravity (allegedly) can't be explained, because it is some kind of illusion?

Michael, I am NOT saying that gravity is an illusion. I follow Seth in his view that gravity is a part of the "camouflage physical realty" agreed upon by all conscious entities.

An example of an illusion is a mirage. A thirsty man walking in the desert may see a body of water which is not actually there. Gravity is NOT like that. Gravity is an essential aspect of physical reality, with very rare exceptions as in the case of levitation.

"Seth says that we form the physical universe as unselfconsciously as we breathe. We aren't to think of it as a prison from which we will one day escape, or as an execution chamber from which all escape is impossible. Instead we form matter in order to operate in three-dimensional reality, develop our abilities and help others. Physical matter is like plastic that we use and mold to our own desire, not like concrete into which our consciousness has been poured. Without realizing it we project our ideas outward to form physical reality." (from "The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/h2txqqi

QuoteIf gravity is seen as a product of consciousness, then I suggest not to  limit the latter to biological life forms (from microbes to humans), but to also grant atoms, planets and stars consciousness.

Michael, you have hit the nail on the head there:

"The molecules and atoms and even smaller particles, all contain their separate consciousness. They form into cells. Now, although the cells maintain individuality and do not lose any of their abilities, in this formation into cells there is actually a pooling of individual consciousness of atoms and molecules into, and to form, an individual cellular consciousness." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 2 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

https://amzn.eu/j9ziSbz

Although Seth does not use the term "panpsychism", that may be applicable here. (I am not absolutely sure):

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/

QuoteAs far as my personal experience is concerned, many years ago, while queuing at a store's cash, I once felt my body lose all its weight. I sensed I was about to levitate and, alas, it made me kind of panic: "Holy crap, what if I start float in the air in front of all the people here?!" So I made a deliberate attempt to focus on the floor and stay connected to it - which I regretted as soon as my curiosity got the better of me, because now I will never know if I had actually levitated had I given in to what I felt to be happening..

Thanks for sharing that experience with us. A phenomenon related to levitation is "astral projection". Some years ago I was trying hard to do that, but never succeeded.

Being a Seth reader, I do see gravity as being a root assumption. Lynda Dahl has made a nice neat package of some of the root assumptions we have, although she doesn't mention gravity. The piece is long so I put it in a spoiler below.

There's also this: "If ever in a dream experience you defy gravity, then gravity is not a primary reality, but only a manifestation within your own physical system." TES5, Sess 208

BTW Michael, I'm sorry you didn't get to experience levitation. Maybe you'll get  the opportunity again. Even when I have flying dreams, I still struggle with gravity. I need to work on that belief.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
As far as my personal experience is concerned, many years ago, while queuing at a store's cash, I once felt my body lose all its weight. I sensed I was about to levitate and, alas, it made me kind of panic: "Holy crap, what if I start float in the air in front of all the people here?!" So I made a deliberate attempt to focus on the floor and stay connected to it - which I regretted as soon as my curiosity got the better of me, because now I will never know if I had actually levitated had I given in to what I felt to be happening...

Hi Michael,

That is very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

Here's some things that Seth had to say levitation. It definitely sounds like its possible.

In S15, Seth was talking about a dissociated state that Jane found herself in the night before. One part of Jane's mind was talking to Rob and another part of her mind was elsewhere. In a state very much like Seth's normal state. In this session, Seth tells Rob that it may well have been possible for Jane to have levitated had Rob suggested it.

In S42, Seth mentions that the ego rises up in arms when its self-protection is aroused. This is one of the reasons why levitation so seldom occurs. This sounds a little like what you, Michael, had experienced.

In S42 and S43, Seth is talking about the eighth inner sense, disentanglement.











-jbseth

Quote from: T.M. on September 18, 2020, 09:39:57 AMI can't explain all the ins and outs of this Simulation.

@T.M. I came across this interestting article on the Simulation Hypothesis:

https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/simulation-hypothesis

A quote:

QuoteJohn Barrow has suggested that if we are living in a computer simulation we may observe "glitches" in our programmed environment due to the level of detail being compromised to save computing power.

I find the idea of "glitches" in the simulation quite interesting. It may be those glitches which give us the opportunity to create our own reality.

Maybe we are seeing the camoflauge

Hmmmmmmmm


? Idk but Seth makes it very clear we are real.

Quote from: strangerthings on April 25, 2022, 02:05:06 AMMaybe we are seeing the camoflauge

St, yes, Seth is very clear that every conscious being is very real. But he says that physical reality is camouflage reality. I take that to mean that we are living in a simulation.

A book on this topic is available for downlaod here:

https://lk1lib.org/book/5415505/e7c6b2

Quote from: Sena on April 25, 2022, 12:37:25 PM

Quote from: strangerthings on April 25, 2022, 02:05:06 AMMaybe we are seeing the camoflauge

St, yes, Seth is very clear that every conscious being is very real. But he says that physical reality is camouflage reality. I take that to mean that we are living in a simulation.

A book on this topic is available for downlaod here:

https://lk1lib.org/book/5415505/e7c6b2

Have you read the early sessions ?

Quote from: strangerthings on April 25, 2022, 03:18:04 PM

Quote from: Sena on April 25, 2022, 12:37:25 PM

Quote from: strangerthings on April 25, 2022, 02:05:06 AMMaybe we are seeing the camoflauge

St, yes, Seth is very clear that every conscious being is very real. But he says that physical reality is camouflage reality. I take that to mean that we are living in a simulation.

A book on this topic is available for downlaod here:

https://lk1lib.org/book/5415505/e7c6b2

Have you read the early sessions ?

@Sena  You wrote "every conscious being is very real", then "that we are living in a simulation."

I assume that you mean something like virtual-reality. The characters are real, but the reality you perceive isn't. Is this what you meant?

Quote from: inavalan on April 25, 2022, 03:46:38 PM@Sena  You wrote "every conscious being is very real", then "that we are living in a simulation."

I assume that you mean something like virtual-reality. The characters are real, but the reality you perceive isn't. Is this what you meant?

@inavalan Yes, that is what I meant. Non-Sethians like Nick Bostrom  fantasize about "uploading" a person's consciousness onto a powerful computer. That is nonsense; it cannot be done. The Sethian view is that consciousness is primary. It is physical reality that is the simulation, although Seth did not use that word.

Gravity is love. According to Empedocles.
Attraction and repulsion forces - love and hatred.

Great post Safoela I pondered that very relationship here https://speakingofseth.com/index.php/topic,2640.msg21971.html#msg21971

Quote from: Bora137 on June 14, 2022, 12:57:24 AMGreat post Safoela I pondered that very relationship here https://speakingofseth.com/index.php/topic,2640.msg21971.html#msg21971

Gra means love and vity is our little big life

gravity (n.)
c. 1500, "weight, dignity, seriousness, solemnity of deportment or character, importance," from Old French gravité "seriousness, thoughtfulness" (13c.) and directly from Latin gravitatem (nominative gravitas) "weight, heaviness, pressure," from gravis "heavy" (from PIE root *gwere- (1) "heavy"). The scientific sense of "downward acceleration of terrestrial bodies due to gravitation of the Earth" first recorded 1620s.

• The words gravity and gravitation have been more or less confounded; but the most careful writers use gravitation for the attracting force, and gravity for the terrestrial phenomenon of weight or downward acceleration which has for its two components the gravitation and the centrifugal force. [Century Dictionary, 1902]

*gwere- (1)
gwerə-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "heavy."

• It forms all or part of: aggravate; aggravation; aggrieve; bar (n.4) "unit of pressure;" bariatric; baritone; barium; barometer; blitzkrieg; brig; brigade; brigand; brigantine; brio; brut; brute; charivari; gravamen; grave (adj.); gravid; gravimeter; gravitate; gravity; grief; grieve; kriegspiel; guru; hyperbaric; isobar; quern; sitzkrieg.

It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Sanskrit guruh "heavy, weighty, venerable;" Greek baros "weight," barys "heavy in weight," often with the notion of "strength, force;" Latin gravis, "heavy, ponderous, burdensome, loaded; pregnant;" Old English cweorn "quern;" Gothic kaurus "heavy;" Lettish gruts "heavy."

Yes we all have access to a dictionary - what is your point though?