~Speaking of Seth~

This is from a book by David Tate, published I think in 2004, obviously a number of years before the Covid outbreak:

"For the past 25 years, and continuing, Elias has been delivering information specifically related to avoid trauma during the shift in consciousness. According to Elias, this shift started at the beginning of the 20th century, will continue until approximately 2075, and is specific to this particular dimensional reality Presently, in our world today, an event is taking place that is quite unlike any we have previously experienced. To many, this event might be compared to that which seers and prophets have long been predicting – a new age, a golden age that will arise out of much conflict and devastation. However, according to Elias, we are creating this event, and therefore have the choice to create it with ease and harmony. Elias calls it the shift in consciousness – a global change affecting every one of us. Elias says we are creating this shift in consciousness because we, as a species, have become bored. We have exhausted our creativity in our present state and now wish to explore new areas of consciousness. We have spent the last two millennia creating a reality based upon religious beliefs, which have been purposeful and have served us well. But now we desire to move in different directions, and we are beginning to "remember'' our deeper connections to the vastness of our own consciousness. " (from "The Shift In Consciousness. A Time of Change: An Elias book" by David Tate)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/cnK3On9

I seem to remember that Seth predicted the second coming of Christ around 2075. The following is from the Elias Forum on that prediction:

"When Seth delivered his Christ information in The Seth Material (1970) and Seth Speaks he stated that he was being general and vague as to the actual identity so that people wouldn't be tempted to step into the role prematurely. For example, he never gave a name or race. The same holds true for this information regarding the nine children of Rose. It IS very general. And as far as locations go, Uganda is a pretty big place, even through a first and last name is given for that individual (Jesus Yugu). But once again, it is anything but precise, just vague enough to capture the imagination, stoke hidden religious belief systems, and make us all ask a ton of questions.

The biggest difference between Seth's and Elias' versions of this "return" (which in terms of simultaneous time is a really simultaneity, hey, I suggested you read those Digests first), is that Seth's is a single personality, and Elias talks about nine personalities. So what's up with that? Well, to begin with, in the context of Seth's and Elias' multidimensional psyche, we know that there is no such thing as a single, separated, distinct human being. We are each aspects of nested, merged souls, that, in turn, are nested and merged aspects of ever greater, or wider gestalts of personality tone that, in turn, are aspects of All-That-Is.

I took the opportunity to ask Elias about this discrepancy between his and Seth's versions in December 1999 in a private phone session.

Each of these manifestations participates in different expressions of beliefs, different expressions of actualized reality through objective perception, and expresses an acceptance of those creations of reality within the expressions of the beliefs, and each of these manifestations offers a lending of energy to this shift in consciousness through an expression of a lack of conflict.

PAUL: Interesting. Thank you. In a related area, I know we've talked about religious belief systems today, and it's that time of year in our country, in our culture, the Christmas season, so to speak, and I wanted to address to an area that's difficult for me, but being the season, I figure I'll just jump in!

Anyway, I want to talk a little bit about my interpretation of some of the writings of Seth in the Seth books regarding this Christ entity, and I've had time obviously to reflect on some of my own religious beliefs in this area.

The first point I guess I'm realizing is that in our culture, we're taught that this so-called Christ figure is a single individual with great superpowers, and at least in the context of the information in the Seth material, particularly in Seth Speaks, Chapter 21, he discusses this Christ entity, as he called it, or the Christ essence, I guess we could call it – whatever – in a multidimensional context, and the more I look back at this and review the information, the clearer it becomes to me that this is not a singular manifestation.

We've talked about the three focuses of this essence – John the Baptist, the historical Jesus, and Paul or Saul of Tarsus – and in Seth Speaks, he says that the disciples, the twelve disciples ... he describes them as fragment personalities. There was a character, a teacher of righteousness character, that Seth describes as a probable self, and he talks about other religious heroes in that era, and then also of course this new personality or second, third, fourth coming, et cetera, in what we're terming our shift.

So my question to you is, in Seth Speaks, he talks about this figurative second coming and says there is no such thing, as you do, but Seth very clearly talked about this so-called return as a singular person, and as you know, I am active on a mailing list where we explore these ideas, and I'm struck by people's interpretation, literal interpretation and expectation, that fits back into the officially accepted mapping of a single individual. (I moderate the Sethnet email list at groups.yahoo.com/group/sethnet where the list focus is upon the 40-plus books published by Jane Roberts and Robert Butts.) And you, in your information that I've been studying for several years now, very clearly talk about this in terms of these nine children as a multiple situation, a multiple multidimensional manifestation, which in a sense is similar to what Seth was talking about happened two thousand years ago.

So my question, after a long preamble: why did Seth choose to address this returning focus based on Saul of Tarsus as a singularity, when it's so clear that you have discussed it in terms of multiple manifestations?

ELIAS: Let me express to you first of all, the intent of these essences – myself and that of what you identify as Seth – are different. Therefore, the expressions objectively shall appear to you differently, although essentially they are not so very different. The presentment may be objectively offered differently in conjunction with the intent, but this is the direction of energy within the expression of the intent of a specific type of movement in a specific type of direction with what you may identify in your physical terms as a purpose.

Therefore, the choice of expression – in the context of the intent of that essence – matters not. The information which is offered in its action is what matters, so to speak. It is the allowance for the incorporation of opening in your perceptions that matters, not HOW it shall be accomplished.

Therefore, the idea of what has been expressed of one individual matters not. The concept of the movement holds the importance. If the concept of the movement is offered and accepted in the translation through the aspect of the belief which is already held and if that is accomplishing of the purpose, so to speak, why shall it not be incorporated? For it matters not, for the idea is not what holds importance.

The one or the nine or the ten thousand manifestations and the idea of these are not what holds the importance. The movement of energy in the concept of the shift is what holds the importance, for this is the movement of the alteration of your reality. The manifestation is merely the symbolization of it. It is a manifestation of a focal point or a symbol which is offered as imagery of the concept, in like manner to what you identify as the Christ entity, so to speak.

The Christ entity – what is the Christ entity? In actuality, you do not hold a definition for the Christ entity. You hold speculation. You hold theory. You hold ideas/opinions of what this may be, but you do not look to the designation of the Christ entity, so to speak, as you look to a wall within physical matter and express to yourself, 'This is a wall. These are the properties in physical matter of this physical wall. I may identify in physical objective terms what this object is.' You identify the Christ entity as if it is an object, a manifestation, a thing, but you do not identify what this thing is.

I express to you that the Christ entity – or the thing of the Christ entity – is a symbol."

https://www.eliasforum.org/digests/Rose_children.html

When Elias says that the Christ entity is a "symbol", what I understand is that we should not expect a male or female individual who will be labeled the Christ.

A symbol is a symbol of "something". What is the Christ entity a symbol of ? I think it may be a symbol of the shift in consciousness.

Elias goes on to say in the book:

"You do not need to be creating floods, famines, earthquakes, holocausts to be gaining your attention and initiating movement into what you view to be a new era. You may easily move into your new awareness without all of your fireworks!" (from "The Shift In Consciousness. A Time of Change: An Elias book" by David Tate)

What Elias seems to be saying is that the Covid pandemic is an "unnecessary" creation. We should stop creating pandemics of fear.

Quote from: Sena
"You do not need to be creating floods, famines, earthquakes, holocausts to be gaining your attention and initiating movement into what you view to be a new era. You may easily move into your new awareness without all of your fireworks!" (from "The Shift In Consciousness. A Time of Change: An Elias book" by David Tate)

What Elias seems to be saying is that the Covid pandemic is an "unnecessary" creation. We should stop creating pandemics of fear.

This is something I need to consider a bit more. You've mentioned covid being a pandemic of fear a few times, and I have to agree considering the uncertainty around it, and the constantly changing safety procedures, treatment, and the disputable and often inaccurate (inflated) reporting of stats.

I was first introduced to Elias by a documentary someone posted here when the forum first began. I can't remember the name of it, but it had to do with modern channelers. Elias was one that stuck out to me as being one of the more credible ones.

The "Shift in Consciousness" may be a book I need to read. I wholeheartedly agree that we could affect change without all the drama of earthquakes, floods, etc. That just seems so biblical to me. I sincerely hope we've progressed from there. I've added the book to my wish list.

Here is an Elias quote on the topic of "creating one's own reality". Elias seems to be saying that we create other people, and other people create us!:


"In this present now, you all sit with myself within a room. There are many objects within this room. There are many individuals within this room. EACH one of you — each individual present within this room — is creating every object within this room, and creating the room, and creating the building, and creating the street upon which the building sits, and creating all of the action that is occurring presently in this now. EACH of you is creating your OWN reality. You are not all creating your IDEA of a reality that already exists. You are each simultaneously creating the actual reality. Therefore, the viewing of any object or any individual within this present room shall be different as perceived by each individual, for each individual is creating all of the other individuals. (Grinning)
    And you may be expressing to yourselves, "How may this be? I am not creating all of these other individuals that sit within this room." And I express to you, yes, you are! They also are creating all of the individuals sitting within this room. This room presently is quite crowded with many, many, many, many, many individuals!
    You are all creating your individual groups of individuals beside the individuals that are creating themselves, and you are each creating yourselves also. Therefore, you (looking at one person) are creating yourself presently, and you are creating another physical, solid matter, moving, breathing projection of every other individual within this room, and so are you, and so are you, and so are ALL of you." (from "The Shift In Consciousness. A Time of Change: An Elias book" by David Tate)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/2d4TY6m

Seth did say essentially the same thing, I think during a class session. He started by saying the glass on the table was actually seven glasses, each created by the seven people in the room, etc. But I think he also said that each person in the room was created by each person. I'm too lazy to look it up, though. 

Quote from: LarryH
Seth did say essentially the same thing, I think during a class session. He started by saying the glass on the table was actually seven glasses, each created by the seven people in the room, etc. But I think he also said that each person in the room was created by each person. I'm too lazy to look it up, though. 

Larry, you may well be right, but I too cannot recall an exact reference and the search engine may not help.

Quote from: Sena
Larry, you may well be right, but I too cannot recall an exact reference and the search engine may not help.

Hi Sena, Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Yes, LarryH is right. This can be found in either of 2 places. It's discussed in Jane's book, "The Seth Material" Chapter 10, which is titled, "The Nature of Physical Reality".  It's also discussed in TES2, Session 68; see link below.

https://findingseth.com/q/session:68+Marks/


I suppose that anyone with a pretty good understanding of the "Seth" information, someone like one of the "Boys from New York", Sue Watkins, Tam Mossman, Lynda Madden Dahl, or Barbara Marciniak, for example, could just write and publish books based upon a rehash of the Seth information claiming that it is all "new" channeled material that comes from their channel.  In the past, here in this forum, I know that there have been some discussions about whether this was what was going on with the Hicks Abraham channeled information.


If I was going to do this, and I'm not, at least I'd try to make my information come across differently than Seth's in some places. On the other hand, if I was going to do this and I was being lazy, I might not even bother to do that.


The thing that I fail to see here is this.  What is it about this "Elias" information, that convinces you that this "is not" what's basically going on here?  I'm just not seeing it; maybe I'm missing something here. 

I'm not addressing this question to anyone here specifically, but if anyone would care to answer this question, I'd be interested in your reply?


- jbseth

I guess David Tate isn't the person I saw in the documentary several years ago, Tuning in: Spirit Channelers in America. It was pretty interesting and introduced me to a bunch of channelers I'd not heard of before.

I did a little research on David Tate, since I was curious who he is. I'd heard of Elias before, but Mary Ennis is the channel. I'm confused. Is David Tate the book author/producer and writing about Mary and Elias? He has a website, https://www.davidandelias.org which made me think he was the channeler until I saw Mary's picture on the home page and realized why the name Elias was familiar. The website is odd: The home page has some content and then there are just empty red boxes to scroll through for what seems like forever. At the bottom, the site is copyrighted ©2023 by Samantha Jones. 2023! A time traveler!

There's also a page of Elias Sessions. I was curious what he wrote about Jesus, since his 9 essence families (book) sounds suspiciously like Seth's 9 families of consciousness. The Jesus info seems similar to Seth too, relating Saul and John with Jesus as "manifestations of one essence." Regarding the return of the Christ essence (or entity), Elias said:

"The third focus of the one essence which focused three manifestations to be accomplishing of a shift, so to speak, unlike this shift in consciousness, moving into your religious focus, was already manifest. All three have been manifest within the same time period, in your terms of time.

It has been stated that this manifestation shall remanifest within the element of your shift. As to this manifestation, I shall offer a partial yes;"

I found that difficult to understand. I think I'll stick with Seth, I already speak the language.

Quote from: jbseth
If I was going to do this, and I'm not, at least I'd try to make my information come across differently than Seth's in some places. On the other hand, if I was going to do this and I was being lazy, I might not even bother to do that.


The thing that I fail to see here is this.  What is it about this "Elias" information, that convinces you that this "is not" what's basically going on here?  I'm just not seeing it; maybe I'm missing something here. 

I'm not addressing this question to anyone here specifically, but if anyone would care to answer this question, I'd be interested in your reply?

jbseth, what I find interesting about Elias is that his "syntax" (by which I mean the way he expresses his ideas) is quite differenet from Seth's syntax, but the substance of both teachings is similar. To me, this provides further confirmation that what both Seth and Elias are saying is based on a true reality. If Elias was simply being a copycat of Seth, his syntax would be more similar to that of Seth.

Quote from: Deb
I did a little research on David Tate, since I was curious who he is. I'd heard of Elias before, but Mary Ennis is the channel. I'm confused. Is David Tate the book author/producer and writing about Mary and Elias?

Deb, in the Elias book I have downloaded, the copyright is with BOTH David Tate and Mary Ennis. What I infer from this is that the book is compiled by David Tate based on the channelling done by Mary Ennis, a bit like how many of the Seth books were compiled by Rob. This is my guess, but I could be wrong.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Yeah, from what I could tell, Mary Innes appears to be the channeller of "Elias".  I'm not sure how or why David Tate is involved in this but it does appear that he is the writer of several books.

Somewhere when I was looking into this a few days ago, I also thought that there was a person named Paul "H."  who was also somehow involved.

And then, along with all of this, there's the site that's copyrighted 2023 by Samatha Jones.



I don't have an issue with anyone being a follower of this material.

It's just that it seems to me, from some of the material that I've read at the various places on the internet, I'm suspicious that there "may be" (I'm not saying that it is) some plagiarism going on here.

I wonder what the people who rightly own the Seth information today, would think about this.


-jbseth



 

Quote from: jbseth
Somewhere when I was looking into this a few days ago, I also thought that there was a person named Paul "H."  who was also somehow involved.

OK that one clicked for me. Paul M. Helfrich. He wrote a book that I have, on Seth, "Seth the Ultimate Guide." He also wrote this https://www.paulhelfrich.com/library/Helfrich_P_A_Seth_Elias_Comparative_Overview.pdf . And if you want to make the full circle connect, he dedicated the PDF to Lynda Dahl and her late partner, Stan Ulkowski. It's worth just looking at his thanks list, everyone is on it, even Seth. 

I should probably now take a look at his PDF and see what HE says about Elias and Seth. I think I attached a copy of it somewhere on the forum, a while ago, but never got around to reading the whole thing because I didn't know much about Elias and Mary herself kinda bothers me.

Sena, I'd love to know what you think of the "Shift" book after you've had a chance to read more. While he sounds like he copies the Seth materials on many topics, I don't recall Seth talking about a shift very much compared to the Elias book.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Paul gives a good rundown of the similarities and differences between Seth and Elias starting on about page 35 of his 55 page PDF.

He seems to address the issue that they are similar to each other by indicating that all "perennial" teachings look the same. 

In theory, I would agree with him. The truth is the truth. However, my problem with this idea is that I don't find it to be representative of most channeled material. Most channeled material is quite different from each other; Seth, Ramtha, Law of One, Course in Miracles, Basha, ... etc.

There is another reason why two sources of channeled information might be nearly identical. This would occur if one source was using the ideas presented by the other source.

I don't know that this is happening here and I'm not saying it is, but I will admit, it seems entirely possible to me.

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
There is another reason why two sources of channeled information might be nearly identical. This would occur if one source was using the ideas presented by the other source.

I totally get where you're coming from.

I was introduced to A-H before Seth. The concepts were totally new, and resonated with me. When I followed the breadcrumbs from Jerry Hicks back to Seth, I was finally home. There are many 'channelers' that repeat what Seth said. On one hand, I'm glad they are spreading Seth's words. On the other, I wish they would admit they are just rehashing what Seth said.

My main agenda is that the Seth material gets the exposure it deserves, whatever the source.

Quote from: Deb
I don't recall Seth talking about a shift very much compared to the Elias book.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

While I agree that Seth doesn't talk about a shift, in quite the same way that others have, he does say some things that does support a "shift" concept. His comments in regards to this shift, however don't involve things like natural disasters, pole shifts and that sort of thing, even though he does talk about natural disasters quite a bit in NOME.

In regards to this shift, Seth does say that, "By that time, all religions will be in severe crisis." (SS, Ch21, S586).


Prior to the year 2,000, many people were predicting that a great shift would occur on or around the turn of the century. Some of these predictions included things like Earth axis pole shifts, mayor natural disasters, economic collapse, etc.  Of course, nothing like that actually happened, though shortly after this, we did experience a 9/11 event in 2001.

Then, a little later on, once again, many people started predicting that all kinds of things were going to occur on or about Dec. 21, 2012. It was believe that the Mayan calendar came to an end at about this time and once again, it was believe that this was going to consist of a shift that included earth pole shifts, mayor natural disasters, economic collapse, etc.  Then, once again, nothing like that actually happened, either.

In both the year 2,000 predicted shift and the year 2012 predicted shift, many of these predictions also included a shift in our consciousness levels.

I suspect that some of Elias comments about the perceived coming shift, and natural disasters, etc. may have been response to some of these other stories about pole shifts, mayor natural disasters, economic collapse, etc. ), that were being predicted by some people prior to these two dates.



Seth does talk about a "Second Coming" event and he also talks about life after this event, which he indicates may occur somewhere around the timeframe of 2075. In SS, Ch 21, S586, he tells us that life after this will be much different than it is today. He says that, "Mans experience will be so extended that to you the species will seem to have changed to another."

In this session he says that children will be aware of many of their past existences and they will be able to identify with the old man or old woman that they will become. He also says that men and women will find themselves relating to others, not only as that people that they are but also the people that they were in past lives. That's quite a "shift" from the way that we interact with each other today.


Then along with this, in NOPR, Ch 19,  S668, Seth tells us that there are cycles or  "rhythms having to do with energy."  Then a few paragraphs later, in this same session, he says the following.

"These cycles merge at several points, so that you do have major changes in all areas in any span of two thousand years. For other reasons and in a smaller context, the month of August is highly significant in a twenty-five year sequence. Within this, a seven-year period is important individually. These are simply rhythms depicting the greatest impact of spirit as it intersects with flesh and time. "

Given this then and given that Seth says quite a bit about Jesus, who lived 2,000 years ago, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that maybe this second coming of Jesus, after 2,000 years, will bring about some majors changes (a shift) in how we will react to each other, after this occurs.  In fact, once again he says, it will be a shift of such magnitude that, "... the species will seem to have changed to another."

-jbseth