~Speaking of Seth~

The Setup: Seth mentioned that past and future lives are a bit of a misnomer pointing to the fact that those lives are being lived out simultaneous to our "current" life. He explained that our oversoul usual takes on 3-5 incarnations at a time. I believe that these 3-5 simultaneously lived lives are what Seth refers to as a "reincarnation cycle". Our oversoul undergoes quite a few of these cycles until it eventually advances to the point where physical reincarnation are no longer nessisary. Basic stuff.

The Brain Melt: If our past lives are being played out simultaneously, then how is it possible for one to experience one's own past death when undergoing past life hypnotic regression?

Have those past lives been completed while the current one is still active?
OR
Are those lives still currently running and we are able to "remember" any given point in their/our lifetime (eg. birth, midlife, death) because the very concept of past and future are also misnomers and that each one of those reference points of time are all happening simultaneously?

In the case of the former, how is it that a 20something year old can experience the death of a past life where they died late into their years?

In the case of the latter, wouldnt that mean that our current life's death is also happening now, in the present moment?
If that's the case then wouldn't that be tantamount to predestination and severely limit our outer ego's free agency?

A real head scratcher, no?

Quote from: Xeth369
The Brain Melt: If our past lives are being played out simultaneously, then how is it possible for one to experience one's own past death when undergoing past life hypnotic regression?

How I see it is that it all depends on point of view. For those of us who are in physical reality, there is a real distinction between past, present, and future. For those like Seth, who are not in physical reality, past, present, and future are simultaneous.

When I think about it, I visualize the entity, all lives, as one big circle.  That circle represents everything going on at once.  Superimposed upon the circle in various areas are little rectangles that represent a life.  In these rectangles, the laws of linear time and other aspects of physical life apply. 

I don't know.  It's a tough concept and I do best when visualizing things.

Quote from: usmaak
When I think about it, I visualize the entity, all lives, as one big circle.  That circle represents everything going on at once.  Superimposed upon the circle in various areas are little rectangles that represent a life.  In these rectangles, the laws of linear time and other aspects of physical life apply. 

I don't know.  It's a tough concept and I do best when visualizing things.

This may help:

https://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/05/22/the-multidimensional-self/

Quote from: Sena
For those like Seth, who are not in physical reality, past, present, and future are simultaneous.

But is Seth refering to this physical reality system itself or the individual lives being lived inside this physical reality system or both?

Again, the implication of the latter two is that our lives have already played out and we are simply going through the motions. If that's the case then our outer ego-selves would not have any free agency, because the outcomes to our lives would be predetermined.

Quote from: Xeth369
But is Seth refering to this physical reality system itself or the individual lives being lived inside this physical reality system or both?

Again, the implication of the latter two is that our lives have already played out and we are simply going through the motions. If that's the case then our outer ego-selves would not have any free agency, because the outcomes to our lives would be predetermined.

I disagree with Seth on this. It could be that Jane's transmission of Seth's ideas was not perfect.

My view is that all of our lives, including every moment and probability of our lives, are simultaneous from the viewpoint of Seth's reality. There is no fixed predestination because each self can choose the probability that it wants to experience, though other probabilities still exist with less intensity. If we are predestined to anything, it is by virtue of an agreed-to outline of a life that sets up desired learning experiences or tasks in service to others. Through hypnosis and other means, we can get in touch with any significant point of these other lives. If it is therapeutic to do so, we may re-experience or become aware of one manner of death from another life, while ignoring other probable manners of death from that life. We can experience bleed-throughs and cross-fertilizations from other lives during dreams or altered states or unconsciously, as we affect those other lives in the same manner.

Quote from: LarryH
My view is that all of our lives, including every moment and probability of our lives, are simultaneous from the viewpoint of Seth's reality. There is no fixed predestination because each self can choose the probability that it wants to experience, though other probabilities still exist with less intensity.

That's rather contradictory, though. If one entire life is being played out in a single moment, in other words, birth, childhood, adulthood, seniorhood and death are all happening at the same time, then the probabilities have already been chosen by the oversoul to experience before the life had even begun. If that's the case then the life does indeed have a predestined journey, because the end of the life is being played out even though the life has just started.
If that's the case then the outer ego has no free agency at all and reincarnation cycles would conclude VERY quickly.

This cannot be the case, surely. Im trying to looking at it from Seth's perspective. Where Seth can jump to the end of Jane's life before her oversoul has had a chance to experience it first hand chronologically.

The brain melt is trying to understand how an entity from a system in which time does not exist interacts with a system in which all time is happening simultaneously and still somehow allows its incarnated self to have any kind of free agency.

There is either an incorrect interpretation or information is missing from the model or the entire concept is simply beyond hoomun comprehension.

Quote from: Xeth369
The Brain Melt: If our past lives are being played out simultaneously, then how is it possible for one to experience one's own past death when undergoing past life hypnotic regression?

I think I've had at least one brain bleed over this.

How is it possible to experience a "past" life if time is simultaneous? The closest answer I can come up with is that here in Framework 1, we live with the law of linear time. We can sometimes dip into the world of simultaneous time, but it's not our natural state. The me that existed in the late 1700s or so as a female Native American is not an exact replica of the me that exists today. She was another offspring/offshoot of my entity, that could be more accurately considered a sibling or cousin of mine. I consider there is a range of "me" in the EMF spectrum, and we within that range can sometimes share information. Because I live in a world of linear time, the she/me died in 1884, a long "time" ago for this me. So if I can be regressed to her life experiences, why not her death experience as well? Maybe her after-death experience is not available to me because it's outside my limitations on this side of the veil.

I wondered about this years ago, and asked Rick Stack in one of his Seth Intensives if our individual deaths affected our other incarnations or probable selves. He laughed at me as if I'd asked if the sun rises in the west (in front of 100 or so other participants), and just said "no." Then not long after that I read in, I think, PS1—Seth telling Rob that one of his mother's probable selves died young, and there was a surge of energy transferred to the mother that he knew.

Simultaneous time is one of the hardest concepts for me to grasp deep down. Yes to beyond hooman comprehension. When we get to that place in which Seth exists, then I suppose it will all make sense. I'm glad I'm not alone... I'd hate being the only one who doesn't "get it." 

Quote from: Xeth369
If one entire life is being played out in a single moment, in other words, birth, childhood, adulthood, seniorhood and death are all happening at the same time, then the probabilities have already been chosen by the oversoul to experience before the life had even begun. If that's the case then the life does indeed have a predestined journey, because the end of the life is being played out even though the life has just started.
If that's the case then the outer ego has no free agency at all and reincarnation cycles would conclude VERY quickly.

This cannot be the case, surely. Im trying to looking at it from Seth's perspective. Where Seth can jump to the end of Jane's life before her oversoul has had a chance to experience it first hand chronologically.

I find the novel Flatland to be helpful in visualizing time from the perspective of not being locked into a point in time. It is really about how to understand multiple dimensions, but many people view time as the 4th dimension. So in this Flatland, where all the beings live in a 2-dimensional world, they cannot imagine a 3D world, since they cannot point in that new direction. But they are able to view beings in Lineland from outside of Lineland. They can see the whole line. But the beings who live in Lineland can only experience the point in which they exist. The rest of Lineland does not exist for them, but those in Flatland can see that the entire line does exist. Consider that an analogy of time, where someone viewing from a higher dimension can see the entire "line" of time, while we are stuck at one point in time. Now, looking at probabilities, consider that instead of a single line, we each have an untold number of pasts and futures, all intersecting at the point in time that we experience. It may be that time as the 4th dimension is actually only one probability, the one that we actually experience. And the 5th dimension may be all of the probabilities that were or will be explored by alternate versions of one's physical life.

I want to also say that my take on how near-death-experiencers describe their experience of time is that, while they may say there is no time in their experience, events do occur. They have experiences that take "time". But the nature of time is more fluid, less rigid. Consider how time works in a dream. You can go back and repeat an event over and over again in a dream. You can change your location instantly. You can slow or speed events in a way that is not possible in physical life. I suspect it may be similar to that in an NDE or in Seth's realm.

Quote from: Xeth369
If that's the case then the outer ego has no free agency at all and reincarnation cycles would conclude VERY quickly

Xeth, that is an important point. If past, present, and future are simultaneous in physical reality, there is no Free Will.

The technical terms for the Sethian view are "eternalism" or "block universe theory", and there is a Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time)

The following article shows that if we accept block universe theory, we reject free will:

https://tinyurl.com/seth-block-universe

(It's worth watching the short video on that page)

QuoteUnder eternalism, the question of free will and determinism becomes much less clear because it seems that everything in the universe has already happened under eternalism. It's called the "block universe" view in physics — in which everything has, in a sense, a manner of speaking, already happened. And this would mean that what we think of as free will is, in a sense, an illusion.

Quote from: Tob

Quote from: usmaak
When I think about it, I visualize the entity, all lives, as one big circle.  That circle represents everything going on at once.  Superimposed upon the circle in various areas are little rectangles that represent a life.  In these rectangles, the laws of linear time and other aspects of physical life apply. 

I don't know.  It's a tough concept and I do best when visualizing things.

This may help:

https://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/05/22/the-multidimensional-self/

'Identity, being independent of matter, is then not finished when the particular physical pattern is no longer created. Energy while being propulsive, is also retentive. It retains what you may call memory of previous gestalts. Capsule comprehension exists even in the smallest particle of energy, and even within the smallest particle of energy there exists all possibilities of development and creation.

A psychic gestalt is dependent upon matter, not for its identity but merely for its survival in the physical plane. Psychic gestalts or identities or individualities are for all practical purposes immortal. They may join other gestalts but they will never be less than they once were. Identity then is never broken down. Any apparent breaking down is never an actual fact, as the personality could be thought of as a breaking down of the entity; but this is not so. The personality did not exist as such before its creation by the entity, and once it becomes an identity, it retains that individuality. Earlier it was merely a possibility, as for example a painting that you may paint next year is now only a possibility'. (Session 62)

'Energy is self-perpetuating. The universe and all planes and universes of existence, come indeed from what you may call energy, vitality, idea; or despite Ruburt's stubborn blocking, from a personality essence or psychic gestalt which you may refer to as God if you prefer. And this statement is an extremely simplified version of actuality'. (Session 95)

'My dear friends. There are no ends that must be accomplished by any given personality, no ends that must be gained by a personality for the entity' (Session 95)

'I have told you that energy always regenerates itself, but the implications here psychically are astounding, as the inward energy forms gestalt after gestalt; and each gestalt itself then continues to go on, itself regenerating, forming new personalities which are never destroyed'. (Session 108)

'The individuals continue to exist, and express themselves according to their development in other fields not connected with yours, when they are finished on your plane. No particular identity is ever lost. If so the whole process would be meaningless' (Session 108)

'Words are quite ineffectual methods of communication. The question, "When is the self born?", would take many sessions to answer. As simply as possible the self, the inner self with which the ego is only vaguely familiar, that self which is the inner strength, continuity and identity, that gives the ego its vital meaning, that inner self, dear friend, is constantly being born. There is no point in time as you know it, when the self is born. It is constantly in a state of becoming. It expands and develops in terms of value fulfillment, in a way that has nothing to do with space and time. It develops, again (...) as an idea expands, taking up no space. The self may project itself into the dimensions of space and time, but the projection is a small part of its actuality. Even the uppermost or surface elements of the self with which you are familiar, the ego and the uppermost layers of the subconscious even these cannot be said to be born at any given time, in time as you conceive it.' (Session 110)

'When hypnosis is more clearly understood and used, and when certain other psychological devices are discovered, it will then be possible to change focus in such a manner, and through psychological testing discover the personality types, the individual types who dwell in various stages of the subconscious. These various stages of the subconscious represent what was once the conscious ego of an individual, left now almost like living archeological heritage, from which the present individual may draw both knowledge,
psychic continuity and balance. What was once the subconscious of these individuals once more united with the inner ego, which always represents the true individual, and these then advanced according to their own abilities and desires.' (Session 88)

This may help to 'read' the graphic.

Quote from: Tob
This may help:

https://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/05/22/the-multidimensional-self/

Tob, thanks for the link. It's good to see yet another website taking the Seth teachings seriously.

QuoteAll reincarantional personalities exist simultaneously for time is an illusion. Reincarnational selves unfold outwards from the central inner self to infinity much like a flower that never stops growing.

If time is an illusion, there is no free will. I cannot accept that.

That website does give an interesting discussion about free will:

https://www.gestaltreality.com/articles/free-will-conscious-co-creation/

QuoteOnly in reincarnation theory can you have true free will. For the soul pre-exists life on earth and so chooses a path of development that benefits the soul most, at its given stage in evolution. Of its own freewill the soul chooses a limited framework so that it can experience a given reality within it and thereby grow. The soul chooses temporary loss of total freewill power of its own freewill.

Now this leads into one of humanities greatest mysteries and possibly one of the most difficult things to rationalize given the atheist/Judeo-Christian framework most people are coming from. That mystery is: why are some people born sick while others healthy? Why are some people born rich while others poor? In Judaeo-Christian religions God chooses for you, overriding your freewill. In atheism this occurs by random probability and thus overriding your possible freewill.

Now in reincarnation theory people actually choose to be born poor, sick etc. Souls choose such a path so that they can learn from the experiences. They choose such a path because it benefits their overall spiritual evolution. Without anything to overcome the soul simply would not grow. Some of the most difficult lifetimes offer the greatest potential for growth.

The general purpose of incarnating on planet earth is to learn about emotion and sexuality. That's right earth is a SCHOOL for sex and emotions. This is the unique experience that earth offers in that it enables souls to learn how to use these tools in order to create. Thus you can easily see why majority of souls who incarnate on this planet do not choose to incarnate into a mansion lifestyle and sit around and eat grapes and drink wine all day. It's through life's challenges specifically in relation to others where human souls individually stand to gain the greatest amount of spiritual growth knowledge and wisdom.

Quote from: Sena

Quote from: Tob
This may help:

https://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/05/22/the-multidimensional-self/

Tob, thanks for the link. It's good to see yet another website taking the Seth teachings seriously.

QuoteAll reincarantional personalities exist simultaneously for time is an illusion. Reincarnational selves unfold outwards from the central inner self to infinity much like a flower that never stops growing.

If time is an illusion, there is no free will. I cannot accept that.

That website does give an interesting discussion about free will:

https://www.gestaltreality.com/articles/free-will-conscious-co-creation/

QuoteOnly in reincarnation theory can you have true free will. For the soul pre-exists life on earth and so chooses a path of development that benefits the soul most, at its given stage in evolution. Of its own freewill the soul chooses a limited framework so that it can experience a given reality within it and thereby grow. The soul chooses temporary loss of total freewill power of its own freewill.

Now this leads into one of humanities greatest mysteries and possibly one of the most difficult things to rationalize given the atheist/Judeo-Christian framework most people are coming from. That mystery is: why are some people born sick while others healthy? Why are some people born rich while others poor? In Judaeo-Christian religions God chooses for you, overriding your freewill. In atheism this occurs by random probability and thus overriding your possible freewill.

Now in reincarnation theory people actually choose to be born poor, sick etc. Souls choose such a path so that they can learn from the experiences. They choose such a path because it benefits their overall spiritual evolution. Without anything to overcome the soul simply would not grow. Some of the most difficult lifetimes offer the greatest potential for growth.

The general purpose of incarnating on planet earth is to learn about emotion and sexuality. That's right earth is a SCHOOL for sex and emotions. This is the unique experience that earth offers in that it enables souls to learn how to use these tools in order to create. Thus you can easily see why majority of souls who incarnate on this planet do not choose to incarnate into a mansion lifestyle and sit around and eat grapes and drink wine all day. It's through life's challenges specifically in relation to others where human souls individually stand to gain the greatest amount of spiritual growth knowledge and wisdom.

I think this is too simplistic. The 'solution' lies in the existence of (a nearly infinite number of) parallel or probable selves. Please find attached a graphic produced by Jane Roberts (Robert Butts) for her 'Adventures in Consciousness' Book. At any given moment the self has the option to decide in favor of an alternative. Thus, one version of Robert Butts 'decided' to die as a child, another one decided to die as a pilot in WWII. They all exercised their 'free will'.

According to Seth (UR) you create these alternative versions of yourself in a similar way as you enlarge your family with children. They are independent of you, beings in their own full right.

Everything which has 'a certain probability' is manifested and materialized somehow and somewhere (Seth). If not by you, then by one of your parallel selves in a parallel reality.

According to Seth, the soul is an activity. The purpose is experiences which are as complete as possible. The 'mechanism' to achieve that are parallel selves deciding in favor of the very options you decided against in your life at specific decision-making points.

'Experiences' are the raison d'etre for us to be 'here on this planet' (plane). Only the experiences are real in the end. They are what creation is all about. This is how creation grows. The rest is camouflage.

Memories can be changed or even replaced (Seth, UR). Actually, you do not know what your history is. You only think so. Mrs Callaghan is such an example (TES 1).

In Bashar's latest session on 'reincarnation' he was referring to 'past life reviews' when asked about the transition. This was the first time that he mentioned a 'multiple life' review, coming with 'this one', comprising the experiences of the parallel selves as well. They all had free will. Or at least had this impression.

The issue with the Seth material are 'identity' and 'consciousness'. What is the history of a parallel self splitting off from your course (or vice versa) at a specific decision-making point? Is it identical? Where does identity come from and what does it mean? Obviously, it can never be destroyed (Seth), but it looks that at least for the time being, your specific "I"-identity DOES have a kind of 'beginning', i.e. the creation of the personality, the petal in the graphic.

If the universe is reproduced at the rate of Planck time, it would be only logical to assume that all your parallel selves constantly materialize themselves into parallel universes, having ultimately different experiences. The different timelines are then what people may refer to as 'shifting' or 'harvest' in medieval terms.

We are inside time now so we see things through its lens. It only appears to us that there is no freewill when considering that our lives are already complete. Experience is the key as Tob says. And as Seth says an incarnation to the soul is what our eyes are to us, it is used to experience/sense this reality and thereby know itself. When we look at a landscape we don't just look at one area we rapidly scan everything so as to build a picture. In the same way the self does not experience one path it experiences many probable paths, it scans this reality to its fullest extent.

Also you already exist in near completed form. This is your higher self not to be confused with your soul. At that closest density to ATI or Godhead or whatever you want to call it, you turn back one last time before crossing the threshold to help yourself that still exists in a cruder form. And when the you that is 'now' also reaches that threshold you too will reach back and provide assistant to that less evolved you. In this way greater and greater completeness of you is achieved adding to infinite intelligence so creation can continue.

So everything is in a sense completed but also everything is still happening. That's how, I personally believe, you have both freewill and access to your other completed lives. This is my best stab at thinking this through but I'm probably way off course or missing big pieces, because our present mental configuration on this plane has been specifically designed to comprehend this plane only and not any others. Seth wants us to understand they exist because we are too submerged in the illusion of this plane. Our current belief systems mean we are in trance inside an illusion. So yes we are a bit lost and from this viewpoint attempting to understand the deepest mysteries of the universe is a big ask.

If I can hold more than one belief at the same time, I am definitely in two places at once. 


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