~Speaking of Seth~

Is this incredibly rare, or does it happen for people every now and then? It hasn't happened for me for years, but it did concretely once. I was in kind of a disassociated, negative state of mind at the time, to the point where one night I completely left my dreamspace and entered an ex-girlfriend's, who was a good friend at the time.

What's kind of funny is I booted the thought form of her current boyfriend, with him disappearing from the couch, and me appearing. My ex was like, "Ahh...what happened to Bob and how are you here?"

She immediately knew I had changed the dream, as did I.

The next day I called her, not wanting to ask any leading questions. So after a while I just asked, "So...did anything interesting happen last night, maybe when you were sleeping?"

She immediately says, "What, you mean when you booted Bob from my dream and just showed up next to me on my couch, talking completely independently of my thoughts and how I was scripting the dream?"

I was like, "Yeah...that."

Pretty sure everyone experiences that sort of thing. Whether they remember it or not is another thing.

Quote from: John Sorensen on January 16, 2016, 10:48:49 PM
Pretty sure everyone experiences that sort of thing. Whether they remember it or not is another thing.

What's interesting is we both remembered it. We had to, or else it wouldn't have meant much. Though it felt real, without her remembering it a part of me may have wondered if she was a thought form. Here's something to melt your noggin...

Based on the fact we both woke up when the dream was over...we shared the dream AT DIFFERENT TIMES. Same night, but different times. That hurts my brain.

QuoteShe immediately says, "What, you mean when you booted Bob from my dream and just showed up next to me on my couch, talking completely independently of my thoughts and how I was scripting the dream?"

Randolph, thanks for sharing this with us. This kind of experience is described by Robert Monroe in his "Journeys out of the body". It would seem that you have had an out-of-body experience.

Quote from: Randolph123 on January 16, 2016, 11:18:08 PM

Quote from: John Sorensen on January 16, 2016, 10:48:49 PM
Pretty sure everyone experiences that sort of thing. Whether they remember it or not is another thing.

What's interesting is we both remembered it. We had to, or else it wouldn't have meant much. Though it felt real, without her remembering it a part of me may have wondered if she was a thought form. Here's something to melt your noggin...

Based on the fact we both woke up when the dream was over...we shared the dream AT DIFFERENT TIMES. Same night, but different times. That hurts my brain.

The time thing makes sense to me is you think of the "dream realm"  or whatever world you want to use having no time at all. you could in theory have that dream ten years ago, or ten years from now and from the dream perspective it could still be the same "time" for both of you.

Quote from: Randolph123 on January 16, 2016, 09:41:38 PM
I was like, "Yeah...that."

That is an awesome story, just amazing. Wonderful validation for all the Seth stuff too.

I've had dreams that I was convinced the other party would remember, but so far that hasn't happened. I'm looking forward to that day. I've felt at times the contact I've had with people in some dreams was so real that they'd have to remember it. I've had this secret desire for years to spend a week at the Monroe Institute... with all the work they do with dreams and astral travel. I actually had a chance, through a coincidence, to visit the Institute last year.

I do have to say when I was about 10, my cousin was sleeping over and I told her I wanted us to get together in a dream so we could continue our fun together. I had concocted this plan of us both going to sleep, then I would find a door into her dream and knock on it so she could *let me in.* I don't recall the plan working.

Maybe it did and you don't remember it.


Or maybe it just hasn't happened yet, or is actually still happening, but have you looked there lately?

Quote from: John Sorensen on January 21, 2016, 06:49:32 PMOr maybe it just hasn't happened yet, or is actually still happening, but have you looked there lately?

Damn you're good.
I'll have to think about that for a bit. No, I haven't revisited that instance with my cousin until today. Maybe tonight I'll get my answer.

I have had an ongoing dream situation that sort of relates to the shared dream idea.  A close relative and I keep having similar dreams during the same time period.  For instance, if I've been dreaming about us traveling together, then she is also dreaming about us traveling together.  When we compare details, they are not exactly the same but there will be many similarities in the mode of transportation, the geography, and the activities.  This actually went on for years before we even discovered it.  One of us just happened to mention a mysterious woman relative that we have in this dream world and the other recognized this relative.  When we started discussing the details, many of them matched up, such as the fact this relative lived in a Victorian style house that had a secluded feel to the property in spite of it being located in a small city.  I can't remember any specific contradictions in the details, although there were differences in what each of us remembered, but that was partly because we visited this relative at different times and were focused on different things in the dreams.

For some odd reason, I've never been into analyzing dreams, but these seemed different (and they're definitely more entertaining than my other dreams).  In the dreams, we have the same family relationship, and many other aspects and people are the same in both these dreams and our lives, with a few significant differences, such as we travel a lot together in the dreams.  I've never felt like I've actually been in her dreams or that she is actively participating in mine.  It's not like we're having a single dream that we're both in.  Nor have the dreams felt like they were predictive.  The time period is similar to my current life, although much more flexible time-wise, of course.  For a while I had a "close friend" relationship (in my dream life, not my waking life) that I was exploring backwards, going from a "current" state of being very close friends all the way back to how it started. 

My speculation is that these are our probable selves living a probable life, one that is very close to our current lives.  And we both enjoy visiting this probable life.  This is a fairly recent idea, so it'll be interesting to see if and how it affects the dreams.

Interesting dreams.  So cool that you found out after years.  Probable lives sounds like a good explaination.

The I impression I got was that the two of you shared a time period where you both lived or probable life/lives.

That's usually more common in my experience although you could both be creating your own space to explore that may not relate to any physical lives at all but still appears in physical terms due to the camouflage nature of this reality / system.

For years I have had dreams of Phil Collins to the point I would know what was up with him then it would be announced public.  In the dreams he was NOT happy that I was there for the first few years because the connection scared him. 

I would love to meet him and apologize!  LOL
I've had several psychic say that I'm his dream muse and then I wondered if any of his songs were about his scary dreams.  I also know about 6 people who  have crossed paths with him.  He and my father have the same birthday and our birthdays are 1 year. 1 month. 1 week. 1 day apart.  11.11???
After my experiences with Larry (in my timeloop thread)  I would use Phil's music to ground me.  At that time I didn't comprehend that I might be bugging him by doing that.  Once I did I stopped.


When I "Zoom", which is what I call getting into an altered state using music to access the Divine I wondered if I was connecting PC to the Divine also?  Was I "taking him Home"?

Take Me Home Lyrics
Take that look of worry
I'm an ordinary man
They don't tell me nothing
So I find out what I can
There's a fire that's been burning
Right outside my door
I can't see but I feel it
And it helps to keep me warm
So I, I don't mind
No I, I don't mind
Seems so long I've been waiting
Still don't know what for
There's no point escaping
I don't worry anymore
I can't come out to find you
I don't like to go outside
They can turn off my feelings
Like they're turning off a light
But I, I don't mind
No I, I don't mind

Quote from: BethAnne
For years I have had dreams of Phil Collins to the point I would know what was up with him then it would be announced public.

BethAnne, I know someone who has been having dreams of Eric Clapton for decades with the same phenomena of dreaming about his life events before they are publicly known. There have been numerous synchronicities between them as well.

Years ago, I participated in an online dream group (8 people). We would post our dreams, compare, and assist one another with interpretation. We found that frequently there would be common threads or details in our dreams from the same night. A few examples:

One person posted that she had dreamed of a fairy and large over-sized musical instruments while I had dreamed of a fairy and tiny miniature musical instruments.

Two people dreamed of riding an aqua beach bike.

On the night where one person dreamed of being in the passenger side of a white car that was driving itself and out of control, I dreamed of being a passenger in a black car that was also driving itself, though in control. I asked the other person if his life seemed out of control, and he confirmed that. On the other hand, my car was a beautiful concept car (what they called 'dream cars' back in the day), and I was completely trusting in the car's ability to take me where I needed to go. I interpreted the color as being associated with the night (further confirmed by the 'dream car' symbolism), while the other person's white car was in reference to his waking life.

Reading this post remind me of this interview:
This man, William shared that he had a shared dream with one of his cousins when they were children.
You can watch it at 2:40

I know him via reddit and he was the person who (indirectly) made me feel that there are more truth out there than Christianity.

Btw, I have a question: if you dream about someone you know in person in real life, would you tell/ask that person about it?
I had dreamt about one of my friend/ex-Client twice, I don't know if I should ask.
Would it reveal anything I should know. Just wondering.

Quote from: happilymarried on November 21, 2021, 09:24:30 AMBtw, I have a question: if you dream about someone you know in person in real life, would you tell/ask that person about it?
I had dreamt about one of my friend/ex-Client twice,

It depends on the dream. If you had dreamt something very unpleasant happening to that person, it may be best not to share it with her. I think we do need to bear in mind the Freudian interpretation. If I dream that something very unpleasant happens to somebody, it means that I have unconscious hostility to that person. The early Woody Allen films talk a lot about this kind of stuff.

This is very cool, thanks for sharing. I'll definitely listen to it

When I was little, maybe about 6, a cousin came to stay for a few days. I was so excited to have her stay because I was an only child and we never had overnight guests. When it came to bed time, I didn't want to go to sleep, I wanted to spend time with her (she slept in my parents' room). I came up with the bright idea that when we were both asleep, we'd dream about a door that would connect our dreams so we could be together and play. She agreed, but I don't recall if our plan ever came to be.

I will tell most people that I saw them in a dream, just in case they also dreamed about me too.  For a while a few years ago I was having fairly frequent lucid dreams. I got to the point that I would tell other people in the dreams that they were dreaming, to make them aware and hopefully remember the event. But they were always strangers, so no feedback.  One night my son appeared in my lucid dream (he's in his 20s) and I enthusiastically told him that we were in a dream, we were lucid dreaming, and to PLEASE remember me telling him that when he woke up. He had no recollection of it. 

So yes, why not tell friends when they appear in your dreams, you never know. But Sena does have a point about not sharing something unpleasant.

Thanks! Both of my dreams which have this friend/ex-Client aren't unpleasant. Though it has some weird details which could hardly happen in real life.

In one of the dream, I saw he has a card on his table which printed a silhouette girl vector, and I've been trying to find this picture.

Have you guys found out anything about yourself through dreams? 

Quote from: happilymarried on November 22, 2021, 11:05:42 PMHave you guys found out anything about yourself through dreams?

More than I planned LOL

I have continuous dreams currently of the same friggin person over and over and I did not want to dream about this person. I knew this person from when I first moved to the town I live in now and from high school but I am learning so much about patterns of energy now that I actually have grown from them but I did NOT want to face them. I did NOT want to be dreaming about this old friendship because it is associated apparently with a string of shit.

lol

I am being shown my association in beliefs around a pattern of energy.

yayyyyy

I am being very sarcastic about it because it is DEEP stuff for me. But apparently I am ready to see this pattern and change it. Which is a very wonderful expansive step. Doesnt mean it is easy. BUT it is easier now.... than say two years ago. I would not have been able to deal with it 2 years ago. Much less any earlier.

It was too hard and too painful.

I asked for dreams to harmonize me and expand me. I was NOT expecting this! lolololol

Welp I got them      I was really thinking about fun and lalalala and joy but that is what expands me I suppose. teehee

I had dreams Neville talks about for years before I found Neville material.

I was besides myself for a long time. I am amazed I held it together. LOL
When I discovered his material I was in a sort of state of bewilderment. And as I read over the Seth material again and listen to the CD's so much of it is really there already I just had no idea thats what it was referring to.

Quote from: Sena on November 21, 2021, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: happilymarried on November 21, 2021, 09:24:30 AMBtw, I have a question: if you dream about someone you know in person in real life, would you tell/ask that person about it?
I had dreamt about one of my friend/ex-Client twice,

It depends on the dream. If you had dreamt something very unpleasant happening to that person, it may be best not to share it with her. I think we do need to bear in mind the Freudian interpretation. If I dream that something very unpleasant happens to somebody, it means that I have unconscious hostility to that person. The early Woody Allen films talk a lot about this kind of stuff.

Dreaming of unpleasant things about them also does not mean it will happen to them. It is always us playing the parts and working through our own beliefs. I find when it is unpleasant I like to lift the dream up. Rewrite it if it really gets under my skin.

We can rewrite any dream we find unpleasant. Stressful etc. I find it always helps me grow in faith and love.

Physical life is a dream and as we work through our beliefs - it gets overwritten! New life springs forth!

Wearing new coats and what not. New gowns.....

@strangerthings

We can re-write our dreams?

Quote from: Doro on May 19, 2022, 04:06:24 PM@strangerthings

We can re-write our dreams?

Doro, I can see your point. It does seem that my dreams are affected by my thoughts and emotions during the day. Last night I dreamt of our son's pet cat.

Quote from: Sena on May 19, 2022, 11:06:13 PM

Quote from: Doro on May 19, 2022, 04:06:24 PM@strangerthings

We can re-write our dreams?

Doro, I can see your point. It does seem that my dreams are affected by my thoughts and emotions during the day. Last night I dreamt of our son's pet cat.

I hope it was a cosy dream. I love cats 😊.
These dreams are ok for me because I can wrap my mind around it, understanding the context.
I remember Seth mentioning that not every dream can be understood easily. It seems to be one of my themes to work on : letting some things just be and relax so the answer comes along by itself. This is not easy because I want to know so many things about my current situation(s) and my life in general, about how I should change and how my life is going to become better (not that it is actually bad, I really am in a good place surrounded by loving people). All the information he has given and I can't just read it and transform what has to be transformed. Because I simply don't understand everything I want to. It is such a complex and beautiful message... I am actually reading and re-reading The Nature of The Psyche. Oh man.
Yes I guess I know how to do it. Going easy. I do this to myself, hungry for knowledge and understanding. Forgetting the attitude of a child when approaching new things.

So let's play 😊💫

Quote from: Doro on May 19, 2022, 04:06:24 PM@strangerthings

We can re-write our dreams?

Absolutely!

You are limitless here. Its your dream and your faith.

Why not write over the unpleasantries. Keep writing dreams down. You might see a pattern from daily events. You could begin to identify the pattern of changeable beliefs.

If I can merely think weight off or change a belief or pattern of behaviour I certainly can rewrite my dreams.

Practice on your faith is a muscle work out.

Did you know how to ride a harley when you first learned how to ride? Im thinking not. You had to practice your riding and confidence on the road with one.

Its no different with faith 

"You are a multi dimensional being.
The self is not limited.
There are no boundaries or separations to the self." - Seth

Lift up the dream!

I've done this a handful of times with one person only (AFAIK), someone I was extremely close to in multiple ways.

When I say I've done this, I mean, without a doubt, without reaching the least bit to make things fit. I'm ruthlessly skeptical about anything paranormal, my own experiences especially, because I want to know as genuinely as I can that my beliefs are based on legitimate experiences, as devoid of self-deception, prejudice, confirmation bias, etc, as they can be.

The first time it happened, the following day we were talking on the phone. At the time, we were living in different states, not that distance matters. She told me she'd had a dream with me in it the night before, and I told her I'd dreamed about her... and then she proceeded to tell me MY dream from the previous night... in DETAIL... and MORE detail... and after a while, I just started saying, "Oh my GOD, Di... Oh my GOD. Oh my GOD..!"

As a little background: I've had a handful of lucid dreams (and just VERY recently some EXTREMELY odd dream-related stuff I'll detail in a later post) I'd had numerous incidents of clairvoyance throughout my life, glimpsing near future happenings of a personal nature, knowing people were coming to visit me, hearing sounds of something happening before it happened (this can be creepy)...

I'd bought Ingo Swann's ESP guide in my early 20s, and had immediate results with remote viewing that completely blew my mind — RV is in fact so easy, to a very high degree of accuracy, that I highly recommend anyone reading this to likewise give it a shot — I'm not sure of another psi-type ability that's as easy to verify repeatedly.

I've seen one UFO in my life — a triangle, when I was a kid. Before that, when I was 3 or 4 (in '77-'78) I "saw" the infamous Shadowman in the Top Hat — at the time I'd thought it was the Boogeyman (and maybe it was)... though he wasn't especially menacing other than in appearance. I say infamous, because, as I found out decades later while googling the topic, this thing has been seen by many people. Of interest, years before I read Seth, I intuitively came up with an explanation for the Shadowman phenomena that fits right in with a Sethian paradigm, though, per Seth, I've tweaked that theory a bit.

Anyway, yeah — extremely interested in the paranormal/high strangeness, largely due to firsthand experiences, though I draw a pretty big distinction between paratainment and that audience who's really just interested in getting spooked, and the legitimate stuff that typically skews much more towards the high strangeness side of the spectrum, and what it says about human consciousness and the nature of reality... an interest I'm sure we all share to a strong degree.

So, back to the shared dreams — my friend was almost laughing at how excited I was becoming, though she kept describing the dream... and at one point, I interrupted her to tell her what happened next, and she just kind of said, "Yeah..." And she paused, and I said, "You've been describing MY dream, you weirdo!" And she laughed, and I was just floored, and I think she was somewhere between unsure how to react and giddy... She was likewise open to this sort of thing, with a similar sort of background of personal experiences, though she considered me the fey oddball between us.

Very similar thing happened again a relatively short time later, maybe just a few weeks. Not long after this, she asked if I happened to remember any dreams of being stuck on the top of a ferris wheel with someone years and years before (maybe an archetypal scenario, but valid here nonetheless)... and even as she was asking, I knew what she was referring to, and I knew it was her, and I immediately remembered other dreams with the same person... and it all clicked.

So this dear, dear friend of mine, likely from another/other life, I had first met in dreams... in this life, that is.

Just a quick addition — when someone starts telling you about a dream they had recently, and you begin to realize they're describing a dream you just had — I mean, unmistakably a dream you just had with that same person where you were running together through a castle, running between these massive columns in an enormous dining hall, with these sort of tapestries or curtains billowing between them... this last detail, my friend was trying to describe, and I stepped in to clarify what I'd saw, and she agreed...

I felt kind of lucky here in that she had been the one describing the dream, and not the other way around... I would probably have been a bit skeptical if it had been myself describing the dream first leaving her to claim a shared experience (no slight to her character — it's just hard to believe).

When someone starts to recount a dream you just had, having no conventional way of knowing about it, your initial reaction is to feel as though they're reading your mind... This sort of dream stuff happens in books and movies, but when it's happening to you in real life, it almost feels like some kind of reality rugpull, and it is extremely disconcerting, even when you're really close to your dream-mate and totally open to this sort of thing.

The next dream we shared was a lot more off the wall, even less likely a coincidence — we were in a flying car in a desert... She asked me the next day if I'd had any weird dreams last night, and I just said, "Go ahead, tell me what we were doing." And she said, "We were in the desert, and were driving, but it was more like we were flying..." And I said, "We were in a flying car, this sort of old fashioned convertible..." "And our headlights were green." "Yeah, I thought that was really cool." And it was this second bit of dreamsharing that really confirmed what seemed to be happening was indeed happening.

@brighteningdark

I don't recall having shared dreams; it sounds interesting. I wonder if you think that they could be of any benefit to you, besides proving to you that there are such phenomena that science can't explain.

I read about people who experienced shared dreams intentionally, but they didn't seem to think about using them into their own development somehow. I think this is because of how most of us look at what dreams are, and at what they represent, in a non-Sethian way.

I ran a search: https://nowdictation.com/q/'shared+dreams'~5+OR+'dreams+shared'~5/ that yielded some interesting results. For example:

Quote"... A rose is a rose is a rose. In the dream state, however, a rose can be an orange, a song, a grave, or a child as well, and be each equally.

In dreams you deal with symbols, of course. Yet symbols are simply examples of other kinds of quite "objective" events. They are events that are what they seem to be, and they are equally events that do not "immediately" show themselves. One so-called event, therefore, may be a container of many others, while you only perceive its exterior face — and you call that face a symbol."

—NotP Chapter 9: Session 792, January 24, 1977

Quote"Events obviously are not formed by your species alone, so that, as I mentioned in our last session, there is a level of the dream state in which all earth-tuned consciousnesses of all species and degrees come together. From your standpoint this represents a deep state of unconscious creativity — at the cellular levels particularly — by which all cellular life communicates and forms a vital biological network that provides the very basis for any "higher" experience at all.

What you call dreaming is obviously dependent upon this cellular communication, which distributes the life force throughout the planet. The formation of any psychological event therefore depends upon this interspecies relationship."

—NotP Chapter 9: Session 792, January 24, 1977

Quote"You share, then, a mass dream experience as you share a mass waking world. Your daily experience is private and uniquely yours, yet it happens within the context of a shared environment. The same applies to the dream state.

Your dreams are also uniquely yours, yet they happen within a shared context, an environment in which the dreams of the world occur. In that context your own existence is "forever" assured. You are the physical event of yourself put into a given space and time, and because of the conditions of that framework, within it you automatically exclude other experience of your own selfhood. The greater event of yourself exists in a context that is beyond your usual perception of events. That greater portion of yourself, however, forms the self that you know.

In the dream state you step into a larger context to some extent. For that reason you also lose the special kind of precise orientation with which you are familiar. Yet you begin to sense, sometimes, the larger shape of events and the timeless nature of your own existence.

Individually and en masse, in the dream state you change the orientation of your consciousness, and deal with the birth of events which are only later time-structured or physically experienced."

—NotP Chapter 9: Session 792, January 24, 1977

Quote"The dream state is the source of all physical events, in that it provides the great creative framework from which you choose your daily actuality."

—NotP Chapter 9: Session 792, January 24, 1977

Quote"Dream locations exist in so-called physical space as truly, or as falsely, as physical objects exist in physical space. As you should know by now, physical objects are only the results of your own perception, and this perception is based upon your psychological makeup, your physical structure, certain combinations of nerves and chemical reactions. As any physicist will tell you, you perceive objects, and you perceive solid objects—"

—TES6 Session 244 March 23, 1966

Quote"When you are dealing with dream locations you are not dealing with mass-perceptions, but with personal perceptions. There is no need therefore for any complicated arrangements calculated to insure agreement between persons as to location in space."

—TES6 Session 244 March 23, 1966

Quote"Each dream location is created by the individual precisely in the same way that I have explained to you; that is, they do not differ basically from physical locations, but in one degree. The difference is mainly that they need not be perceived by others."

—TES6 Session 244 March 23, 1966

Quote"Pretend, all of you for a moment, that you are looking at this situation from the other side. Pretend that while you are in the dream state, you are concerned with the problem of consciousness and existence. From that viewpoint the picture is entirely different, for you are indeed conscious while you sleep.

The locations that you visit while dreaming are as real to you then as physical locations are to you in your waking state."

—TES6 Session 244 March 23, 1966

Quote"When, in the dream state, you are focused in a different dimension, then you see you form from these same atoms and molecules the environment in which you will operate. Yet while you dream you cannot find the bed nor chest nor chair, and when you wake you cannot find the room or city or location which was there moments before.

It cannot be too strongly stressed that these dream locations are actualities. But as a rule they are personal actualities, without a general (underline general) mass framework. However mass dreams do occur (underlined). There are dreams that you share with others. There are dream environments that you share, as you share your physical environment. These are not as limiting however as that framework that holds together your physical reality. Nevertheless it does exist."

—TES6 Session 244 March 23, 1966

Hi inavalan — excellent quotes!! That last paragraph... I didn't know if shared dreams were something Seth mentioned, so that was really awesome to read, thank you! I've had so many dreams with recurring locations, going back to very early childhood.

At the time these shared dreams happened, the most recent ones, they were completely spontaneous, and though they had an unusual quality about them, I wasn't aware during the dream of how special they were. When my friend and I found out what was happening, we tried going to sleep with the intent of doing it again, but it either didn't work or we didn't remember the dreams. This was during a very liminal time of both our lives, which may or may not have contributed. We also shared a very unique bond, something I've never quite felt with anyone else; we were romantically involved for a while, but that was secondary to the soulbond, or whatever you'd call it. We're still in touch, still care deeply for one another.

I'm married now to another woman I've known for a very long time — we also have a deep soulbond, but the feeling is more relationship-like, very comfortable, familiar... there's a lot to it, too much to go into here. But she's the only person I've ever had show up in dream after dream, which only really started after she moved in. For all I know, this could be a common thing for couples living together. We haven't actually shared any dreams that we're aware of, though.

Since reading Seth (all of the shared dream stuff took place nearly 20 years before discovering the material), I've been giving myself suggestions regarding dreamtime development, and my dreams have taken on a different quality that's hard to describe — I guess it feels like exactly what you might expect if you're remembering dreams from deeper levels of your entity... there's the sense that more profound things are happening... though it's still all being translated back into something my 3D brain can grapple with.

I just recently started reading UR1, and doing the suggestions in there for tapping into probable memories/lives... last week, I had 2 instances where I started dreaming while awake — that's the best way I can describe it. This has happened to me 2 other times in the past 15 years or so, but the almost back to back episodes I attribute directly to UR1 suggestions. I'll write more about this in another post soon. VERY curious to see if anyone else here might have had similar experiences. They were intense and resulted in a dizzy, cold-sweat effect that was very unpleasant, though the experience as it was happening was pretty incredible, if incredibly disorientating.