~Speaking of Seth~

Quote from: The Impersonal Life"...it was really I who directed all your ways, who inspired all your thoughts and acts, impersonally utilizing and manipulating each so as eventually to bring you and My other human expressions to final conscious recognition of Me."

Deb, this is close to determinism (absence of free will), which I don't agree with. When I look back on my life I can see certain strange decisions which I took which were not very "rational". I can now see (somewhat hazily) that my inner self may have had an overall plan, and that may have been the real reason for the decisions I took, but I feel that I had and have some degree of choice whether or not to go along with the inner self. This seems to be what Seth is saying.

This is a topic I have just pondered on recently.

I am a great believer in free will. Yet some decisions seem to come from somewhere other than my conscious self. They are just so compelling. In retrospect, it feels as if things could not have been any other way.

I would say, the more aware we are of the various energy currents in our psyche and the more wisely we deal with them, the more choice we have.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
I am a great believer in free will.

I am as well, and Seth has mentioned free will numerous times. I just couldn't continue reading The Impersonal Life because of the constant repeating that we are mindless puppets without one creative thought in our heads that was not first placed there by ATI. It goes against everything thing Seth has to say about the purpose of our existence. There's no question in my mind that I get assistance from a "higher place" when making decisions or problem solving (my inner self), but I always feel like I have the freedom to make my own decisions in the end. Some times I follow the suggestion of my inner self, some times I don't. The results always validate my decision.

Quote from: Deb
I just couldn't continue reading The Impersonal Life because of the constant repeating that we are mindless puppets without one creative thought in our heads that was not first placed there by ATI. It goes against everything thing Seth has to say about the purpose of our existence.

Deb, is The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner? I have not read it. If he states that creative thoughts are "put into our heads" by ATI, that is a serious misunderstanding of the nature of ATI. My understanding is that every conscious being is a manifestation of ATI. I don't see ATI as some kind of god who goes around putting thoughts into people's heads.

Quote from: Sena

Quote from: Deb
I just couldn't continue reading The Impersonal Life because of the constant repeating that we are mindless puppets without one creative thought in our heads that was not first placed there by ATI. It goes against everything thing Seth has to say about the purpose of our existence.

Deb, is The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner? I have not read it. If he states that creative thoughts are "put into our heads" by ATI, that is a serious misunderstanding of the nature of ATI. My understanding is that every conscious being is a manifestation of ATI. I don't see ATI as some kind of god who goes around putting thoughts into people's heads.

My understanding is that the inner self is in fact inspiring thoughts on the level of the mind. Remember that, as Seth has said, there are no real divisions inside the self, it is all "us".

I also believe that, even though, hypothetically, everything may be possible, based on our nature, we are much more inclined towards certain probabilities than others. Let's say, the former are more probable ...

It is also obvious to me that different aspects of my personality are "surfacing" at different times. There are certain cycles at work here.

If I want to accept that everything that could happen is actually happening on some level of reality, as Seth and the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics seem to suggest, is something I haven't decided yet. I feel that this would render making decisions kind of meaningless.

Quote from: Sena
Deb, is The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner?

Yes, that's the one. It was recommended by someone on the forum. I quoted a passage from it above.

It's a small book, first publised in 1941. It started out a little confusing to me, as the introduction by the editor starts with pointing out that the "I" speaking is the Spirit within, the Soul, the Real You, but then goes on to say the book was an "opportunity to serve the Loving Father Who had been found to be ever-present and always ready to bless those of His children who loved Him enough to make Him first in their hearts and lives." He finishes with "This little book, therefore, is intended to serve as a channel or open door through which you may enter into the Joy or your Lord, the Comforter promised by Jesus, the living expression in you of the Christ of God. There's also a handwritten letter dated 1917 from Benner to the "Father" regarding his being chosen to be a medium for the message, ending with "It is Thy Work, Thy Idea, Thy Desire. Do Thou, O Lord, through me quickly bring it to pass that Thy Will may be done on Earth even as It is in Heaven. In Christ's Name, I ask it." I realize the religious interpretation was subjective and that God, The Father or All That Is are subjective labels for essentially the same thing—Source.

The voice of the book comes from either the "Divine Self" (Inner Self?) or the "I AM" (ATI?). It started off nicely, attempting to help the reader become conscious and aware of the Self and there are some parallels with the Seth material. But then this is the kind of stuff that turned me off:

"You, as one of the cells of My Body, have a consciousness that is My Consciousness, and intelligence that is My Intelligence, even a will that is My Will. You have none of these for yourself or of yourself. They are all Mine and for My use only."

The person who recommended the book would probably say I'm not spiritually advanced enough for it at this time. It's a quick read, I will finish it some day and hopefully have a different view about it when I can digest the content as a whole.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
My understanding is that the inner self is in fact inspiring thoughts on the level of the mind. Remember that, as Seth has said, there are no real divisions inside the self, it is all "us".

Inspiring, yes, that's how I see it too.

Quote from: Deb

Quote from: Sena
Deb, is The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner?

Yes, that's the one. It was recommended by someone on the forum. I quoted a passage from it above.

It's a small book, first publised in 1941. It started out a little confusing to me, as the introduction by the editor starts with pointing out that the "I" speaking is the Spirit within, the Soul, the Real You, but then goes on to say the book was an "opportunity to serve the Loving Father Who had been found to be ever-present and always ready to bless those of His children who loved Him enough to make Him first in their hearts and lives." He finishes with "This little book, therefore, is intended to serve as a channel or open door through which you may enter into the Joy or your Lord, the Comforter promised by Jesus, the living expression in you of the Christ of God. There's also a handwritten letter dated 1917 from Benner to the "Father" regarding his being chosen to be a medium for the message, ending with "It is Thy Work, Thy Idea, Thy Desire. Do Thou, O Lord, through me quickly bring it to pass that Thy Will may be done on Earth even as It is in Heaven. In Christ's Name, I ask it." I realize the religious interpretation was subjective and that God, The Father or All That Is are subjective labels for essentially the same thing—Source.

The voice of the book comes from either the "Divine Self" (Inner Self?) or the "I AM" (ATI?). It started off nicely, attempting to help the reader become conscious and aware of the Self and there are some parallels with the Seth material. But then this is the kind of stuff that turned me off:

"You, as one of the cells of My Body, have a consciousness that is My Consciousness, and intelligence that is My Intelligence, even a will that is My Will. You have none of these for yourself or of yourself. They are all Mine and for My use only."

The person who recommended the book would probably say I'm not spiritually advanced enough for it at this time. It's a quick read, I will finish it some day and hopefully have a different view about it when I can digest the content as a whole.

If it is of any help, you could read the problematic passage as meaning that your (true) will is actually identical with the will of your "Divine Self", in line with what Seth and others have shared.

At least that would be the benevolent way of reading it, which may be justified if the rest of the book mostly makes sense.

Keep in mind it was published in 1941, when esoteric authors generally liked to employ a pompous style that was without a doubt strongly inspired by Christianity. In order to get the gold nuggets such books sometimes contain nevertheless out of them, you do have to make allowances.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
Keep in mind it was published in 1941, when esoteric authors generally liked to employ a pompous style that was without a doubt strongly inspired by Christianity.

You're right. I was thinking today that the tone of the book triggered a defensiveness in me due to my own resistance to Christianity and organized religion in general during this life. Even as a small child all I saw were contradictions and control and a sense of arrogance. The book is written with a rather arrogant tone. I just looked up the Wiki on Benner, and the book was actually first published in 1914. He felt the book was dictated to him by God.

Apparently Elvis Presley gave away hundreds of copies of the book and died with the book in his possession. Some day I'll give it another shot.

Quote from: Deb
The person who recommended the book would probably say I'm not spiritually advanced enough for it at this time.

I try to stay clear of these kind of people.................as I'm not spiritually advanced enough....LOL

The book might also have triggered defensiveness in you Deb because your BS meter is quite advanced, and it was sounding an alarm...

Len

LOL, thanks Len. I didn't want to go there.

Quote from: Deb

Quote from: Sena
Deb, is The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner?

Yes, that's the one. It was recommended by someone on the forum. I quoted a passage from it above.

It's a small book, first publised in 1941. It started out a little confusing to me, as the introduction by the editor starts with pointing out that the "I" speaking is the Spirit within, the Soul, the Real You, but then goes on to say the book was an "opportunity to serve the Loving Father Who had been found to be ever-present and always ready to bless those of His children who loved Him enough to make Him first in their hearts and lives." He finishes with "This little book, therefore, is intended to serve as a channel or open door through which you may enter into the Joy or your Lord, the Comforter promised by Jesus, the living expression in you of the Christ of God. There's also a handwritten letter dated 1917 from Benner to the "Father" regarding his being chosen to be a medium for the message, ending with "It is Thy Work, Thy Idea, Thy Desire. Do Thou, O Lord, through me quickly bring it to pass that Thy Will may be done on Earth even as It is in Heaven. In Christ's Name, I ask it." I realize the religious interpretation was subjective and that God, The Father or All That Is are subjective labels for essentially the same thing—Source.

The voice of the book comes from either the "Divine Self" (Inner Self?) or the "I AM" (ATI?). It started off nicely, attempting to help the reader become conscious and aware of the Self and there are some parallels with the Seth material. But then this is the kind of stuff that turned me off:

"You, as one of the cells of My Body, have a consciousness that is My Consciousness, and intelligence that is My Intelligence, even a will that is My Will. You have none of these for yourself or of yourself. They are all Mine and for My use only."

The person who recommended the book would probably say I'm not spiritually advanced enough for it at this time. It's a quick read, I will finish it some day and hopefully have a different view about it when I can digest the content as a whole.

Quote from: Michael Sternbach
My understanding is that the inner self is in fact inspiring thoughts on the level of the mind. Remember that, as Seth has said, there are no real divisions inside the self, it is all "us".

Inspiring, yes, that's how I see it too.

"YOU ! Keeper of the cookie jar are able to receive my gifts, but you alone can do nothing, I me mine! The cookies belong to me and are all mine, now GO! Do my bidding forthwith. "

verily! Old timey all father was a wastrel and a layabout, thus speaks the Odinson! Now, pass the mead fair maiden. Those mortals who doth lack in capacities of merit shall feel the sting of mighty mjollnir!

Quote from: Batfan007
verily! Old timey all father was a wastrel and a layabout, thus speaks the Odinson!

You're funny!

Actually, when I read as much as I did, I felt Benner thought he had to sound like what people think God sounds like: old-timey language in the bible (with maybe a little Shakespear thrown in as well). There's nothing like injecting your own beliefs into a book you're supposedly channeling. And a whole lot of people treat it like their bible, even to this day.

I admire Jane for her objectivity.

Brilliant thoughts by all. I have this book from my father who just adores it. I've gone back to it again and again and again to try to see what he sees. But, each time, I get to the point where I am nothing but a shell to be used and I put it away again, gagging. The first bit really does start out nicely but it's a quick downhill ski from there!

I believe in a small amount of free will/human choice and a lot of destiny and a plan. I have what feels for me, like a great relationship with my loving HP and do turn my will over again and again on a daily basis. There is much I certainly have zero control over. Most, in fact.

Here, I shift from determinism. I also believe I do have freedom of thoughts and freedom to make choices. Freedom to change or grow at a slower or faster pace. Freedom to seek greater intuition. These freedoms do give me the ability to make small change and small choices that do shift me in much larger ways over time than my numerous friends and coworkers who tend to seek numbing from their current path in food, alcohol, television, shopping, sex, etc, etc, etc. Is it their destiny, determined to be that low-lying sort of numbed misery, and mine to live a more thoughtful, connected, simple, fulfilling life minute by minute? Maybe. (They still do great, wonderful, kind things, of course despite what appears a very high level of numbing.)

I don't think I'll know for sure on this Earth, in this human life, if we do have some free will or if everything is already determined, but I do know I am so glad for this forum, which is a huge relief after struggling with The Impersonal Life for years. To each their own. On this book, I'll let it be for my wonderful dad, who I love dearly. I'm glad it serves him.

Hi Kelly, welcome to the forum!

Quote from: Kelly
I have this book from my father who just adores it. I've gone back to it again and again and again to try to see what he sees. But, each time, I get to the point where I am nothing but a shell to be used and I put it away again, gagging. The first bit really does start out nicely but it's a quick downhill ski from there!

Yep, I have to agree with you there. There are an awful lot of people that love this book, and I just don't get what someone would like about being told that we are essentially puppets to do the bidding for a higher power. Personally that would take away my reason for living. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way about the book. But yes, glad it does something wonderful for your dad. There are many roads to spiritual contentment.

So... are you a Seth/Jane Roberts reader? Or did you find this forum by Googling The Impersonal Life? If you've read Seth, which books? If none, we could recommend some. I also have some books I'm trying to give away. Somehow I've ended up with extra copies of a few of the books and they just sit on a shelf gathering dust. Shipping them book rate would cost next to nothing.

If you haven't read any Seth, you may really like the books. They contain a lot of answers.