~Speaking of Seth~

I am not aware that Seth himself made the connection between alien contact and Framework 2, but I think this is worth looking into. To begin with, I'll refer to a quote from a Seth book about the two frameworks:

"For Seth, Framework 1 is simply a term representing the everyday, linear, conscious "working reality" we take for granted, the one in which "time" and events automatically unfold in moment after undeniable moment. It's the milieu in which most of us unthinkingly live out our physical lives. Beyond Framework 1, however, exists Framework 2, and it represents the great timeless or simultaneous spacious present that's so dearly a manifestation of All That Is. All of our dreams, plans, thoughts, actions, and choices live in Framework 2; all flow from Framework 2 into Framework 1 according to our beliefs."
—Dreams, Evolution, and Value Fulfilment Vol.1 Essay 7: Friday, May 7, 1982

In my reading on alien contact, I have found evidence that most genuine accounts reveal that the contact occurred in an "altered state of consciousness". The implication is that alien contact is not a phenomenon occurring purely in physical reality. One writer who appears to give an honest account of alien contact is Jacques Vallée:

https://www.jacquesvallee.net/

https://www.slideshare.net/DirkTheDaring11/jacques-vallee-ufos-the-psychic-solution-1977

In his book "UFOs - The Psychic Solution",  Vallée quotes from an interview he had with a medium who was channelling an entity calling itself '7171':

Vallee: Can you experience the future?
Medium: YES.
Vallee: Why are you communicating?
Medium: THE ANSWER TO THIS I DO NOT
FULLY KNOW MYSELF. I KNOW ONLY
THAT IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THOSE
HIGHER THAN I.
Vallee: What are UFOs a symbol of?
Medium: THEY ARE A SYMBOL OF NOTHING IN
THE SENSE THAT YOU MEAN. THEY
HAVE A VALIDITY INDEPENDENT OF
SYMBOLISM.
Vallee: Why are there men like us in UFOs?
Medium: BECAUSE, FOR VERY DEEP REASONS,
THE FORM OF MAN IS A UNIVERSAL
CONSTANT.
Vallee: Why do they come here?
Medium: TO HARMONIZE THIS WORLD WITH
THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE.
Vallee: Who is 7171 ?
Medium: HE IS ONLY ONE OF THE INFINITE
NUMBER OF ENTITIES THROUGH
WHICH I MAY SPEAK.

Vallée comments on this dialogue as follows:
"I regard the above dialogue as an instance of communica­tion with a level of consciousness, possibly (but not neces­sarily) non-human. But its nature may be understandable only in terms of a space-time structure more complex than what current physics places at our disposal."

"A space-time structure more complex than what current physics places at our disposal." Is that Framework 2?

What is the practical significance of this? Modern science does not acknowledge the existence of Framework 2. Scientists are spending a lot of money looking for alien life in Framework 1, and it would seem that all these efforts are doomed to failure. This is the latest attempt:

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/14/breakthrough-listen-scans-milky-way-galaxy-for-beacons-of-civilization/?fbclid=IwAR2Wo1JO1uhCkPBVE_RltmMNL0kkngNIS_2wgWyjcdq-nNcPDWUuwIjL4Nc

Hi Sena,

That's an interesting topic. Thanks for starting this.

Maybe the question should be something like, is alien contact a Framework 1 phenomenon, a Framework 2 phenomenon, or perhaps both a Framework 1 & 2 Phenomenon?

I tend to believe that that your Jacques Vallee phenomenon is a FW2 phenomenon. I'm also aware of a woman, "Blossom Goodchild" who channels a group of beings that she call's, "The Federation of Light" and based upon their comments, they seem to also be a group of alien beings who come from FW2.

But then I wonder about the "Barney and Betty Hill" couple and "Whitley Strieber" type people. It seems that some of these, if their stories are true, may have occurred in FR1.

Then, in addition to this, there does appear to be UFO's here on earth in FW1. Such as the recent release of information from the US Navy showing strange objects that are capable of making incredible movements (something like going from sea level to 30,000 ft + above sea level almost instantaneously).

This is all very interesting.

- jblair

Quote from: Sena
In my reading on alien contact, I have found evidence that most genuine accounts reveal that the contact occurred in an "altered state of consciousness". The implication is that alien contact is not a phenomenon occurring purely in physical reality.

Good point. I think that in a "universe" with unlimited possibilities (not meaning our physical universe, but all that there is), UFOs and other manner of things we consider paranormal can come from a variety of sources.

Seth said that our universe is a "reality system" and that there are a variety of systems, all with their own unique properties. Not all realities are physical. We are so focused on this one that we can't see anything outside of it because we rely solely on our physical senses, which are meant to sense physical things. I imagine the inhabitants of each system have different skill sets and abilities, some better at sensing other systems than we are and don't have to rely on physical vehicles to visit or look into another system.

"Our friend back here (Paul W.) could well appear, you see, as a UFO in another aspect of reality, and frighten the inhabitants. You forget that consciousness is the only true vehicle. No part of your consciousness is imprisoned within you. It materializes in one aspect or another. I use the word "materializes" because it makes sense to you, but it is distortive since it predisposes an appearance within matter. Yet all realities, as you know, are not physical."
—SS Appendix: ESP Class Session: Tuesday, January 12, 1971

"I must explain this before I can clearly give you an idea of my environment, or of those other systems of reality in which I operate. There is no space between my environment and yours, for example, no physical boundaries that separate us. In a very real way of speaking, your concept of reality as seen through your physical senses, scientific instruments, or arrived at through deduction, bears little resemblance to the facts — and the facts are difficult to explain."
—SS Chapter 3: Session 519, March 23, 1970

I'm also thinking some of the visitors could be Speakers from F2. In order to live  and function in this system, they have to become physical. Otherwise, they've been known throughout history to communicate with people through dreams (or I imagine other "altered" states, I consider sleep as an altered state as opposed to our awake state).

"The Speakers were not confined in their activities, therefore, to waking consciousness. In all periods of your time they went about their duties both in the waking and sleep state. Much of the most pertinent information, in fact, was memorized by trainees during the dream condition, and passed on in the same manner. These unwritten manuscripts therefore were also illustrated, so to speak, by dream journeys or field trips into other kinds of reality."
—SS Chapter 17: Session 569, February 24, 1971

"Divorced from physical focus, you are in a better position to hear the Speakers, to translate their instructions, to practice with the creation of images, and to be guided in the methods of maintaining the health of the physical body. In the most protected areas of sleep, the apparent barriers between many layers of reality vanish."
—SS Chapter 17: Session 570, March 1, 1971

And then some COULD be from other areas in our physical universe. Seth said (can't find the quote, I'll try harder) that the amazing thing is not that we have visitors, but that we are able to see them. That makes me think in some instances the visitors are physical (F1).

Quote from: Sena
What is the practical significance of this? Modern science does not acknowledge the existence of Framework 2. Scientists are spending a lot of money looking for alien life in Framework 1, and it would seem that all these efforts are doomed to failure.

Yep. Seth more than once that we are using the wrong scientific equipment to find any proof of F2—our equipment is meant to detect and measure things in F1. We're looking for proof in all the wrong places...

"Scientists realize that the atmosphere of the earth is a distortion, or has a distorting effect upon their instruments. What they do not understand is that their instruments themselves are bound to be distortive. This cannot be emphasized too strongly. Any material physical instrument will have built-in distortive effects."
—TES1 Session 19 January 27, 1964

Quote from: Deb
Seth more than once that we are using the wrong scientific equipment to find any proof of F2—our equipment is meant to detect and measure things in F1. We're looking for proof in all the wrong places...

Deb, your comments are interesting. It seems to me that if many people change their thought-patterns along the lines suggested by Seth, we might get more useful information from the so-called aliens.

Quote from: Sena
Modern science does not acknowledge the existence of Framework 2.

I would suggest that modern science may actually acknowledge the existence of Framework 2. Quantum physicist David Bohm spoke of the implicate order, the uncollapsed wave level of probabilities from which the explicate order, the world that we experience, arises. Science has struggled with an attempt to unify the undeniable reality of Newtonian physics with the undeniable reality of quantum theory, but some scientists agree that there is no conflict if one assumes that the physical world springs forth from quantum reality. And consciousness seems to be at the root of our physical universe per quantum theory, just as our reality springs forth from Framework 2.

Quote from: LarryH
And consciousness seems to be at the root of our physical universe per quantum theory, just as our reality springs forth from Framework 2.

Larry, I agree, that is one interpretation of quantum theory.

Hi All,

Wow. Talk about synchronicity. Last night while reading NoMe, I came across the following session (Session 855) where Seth responsed to a letter that Rob and Jane received from a professor of physics. In this session, Seth talks to the topic of where / how he and the physicists don't agree.

I particularly like the last 2 paragraphs.



-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
The universe is — and you can pick your terms — a spiritual or mental or psychological manifestation, and not, in your usual vocabulary, an objective manifestation.

jbseth, thanks for this interesting quote. It seems to me that Seth's statement is the key to understanding the alien contact phenomenon.

Quote from: jbseth
Then, in addition to this, there does appear to be UFO's here on earth in FW1. Such as the recent release of information from the US Navy showing strange objects that are capable of making incredible movements (something like going from sea level to 30,000 ft + above sea level almost instantaneously).

@jbseth, sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this point. Yes indeed, UFO's do seem to make "incredible movements", but does not that mean that they are not subject to the laws of physics such as the law of gravity? They do manifest in the physical universe (Framework 1), but the mental state of the observer seems to be a relevant factor. You may find this quote from Jacques Vallée interesting:


"The reports of recent observations do describe objects that appear and vanish. It is just that such reports are not publicized. Students of UFOs are reluctant to publish them. And the witnesses themselves are not eager to come forward with stories they know are unbelievable. During a discussion with Aimé Michel on this subject, he pointed out the negative reactions of scientists to his analysis of the French sightings. They argued that such fantastic stories could only come from deranged minds. "What would these people have said," he remarked, "if I had published all the data!" Among the cases that deserve close examination, but which were "swept under the rug" by UFO students themselves, is the sighting at Nouatre, Indre-et-Loire, France, near Marcilly-sur-Vienne on September 30, 1954. About 4:30 P.M. Georges Gatay, head of a team of eight construction workers, found himself walking away from the other workers. He felt a "peculiar drowsiness" and suddenly wondered where he was going. Then, without warning, he found himself facing the strangest apparition. Less than thirty feet away, above him on the slope, was a man: his head was covered with an opaque glass helmet with a visor coming down to his chest. He wore gray coveralls and short boots. In his hand he held an elongated object: "It could have been a pistol, or it could have been a metal rod." On his chest was a light projector. The strange man was standing in front of a large shining dome, which "floated" about three feet above the ground. Above the cupola of the machine were objects like rotating wings or blades. Then suddenly, the strange man vanished, and I couldn't explain how he did, since he did not disappear from my field of vision by walking away, but vanished like an image one erases suddenly. Then I heard a strong whistling sound which drowned the noise of our excavators; the saucer rose by successive jerks, in a vertical direction, and then it too was erased in a sort of blue haze, as if by miracle." (from "Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers" by Jacques Vallee)

From the Kindle edition: http://amzn.eu/eLTiblv

-

Hi All,

Hi Sena,

At one time I went through all the Seth books I could looking specifically for info on Ufos, and by extension aliens.
Personally for me I've concluded at this point in time the phenomenon is very much psychical and not physical.
If there are crafts, now, they likely are man made.

Seth does mention meeting others from other planets, in our future. Also the future space travel abilities of mankind.

Quote from: T.M.
Seth does mention meeting others from other planets, in our future. Also the future space travel abilities of mankind.

T.M., thanks for your comments. Seth does have some very interesting things to say about space travel:

"Effective" space travel, creative space travel on your part, will not occur until you learn that your space-time system is one focus. Otherwise you will seem to visit one dead world after another, blind to civilizations that may exist on any of them. Some of these difficulties could be transcended if you learned to understand the miraculous multidimensionality of even your own physical structure, and allowed your consciousness some of its greater freedom."
—The Unknown Reality vol.2 Section 4: Session 712 October 16, 1974

Whitley Strieber is someone who claims to have had contact with aliens, whom he refers to as "visitors". His wife Anne died in 2015, but they have been in communication since then. This is a quote from his latest book, "A New World", publishes in 2019:

"Anne and I wrote a book about this called The Afterlife Revolution, which I will refer to frequently in these pages. We wrote it—together—after she had died. Because of the state we are now in, which I believe to be new to human experience, I wear both of our wedding rings. This is to symbolize that fact that we are still together, only now possess only one outpost in the physical world, which is this old body of mine. I know that this is deeply heretical to our scientific and intellectual communities. This is because the intensity and complexity of material culture has blinded us to the existence of that subtle and many-faceted enigma we call by the single, starved word "soul." But this mysterious and denied presence is quite real. It is not supernatural in any way, but rather part of nature. It is also where our visitors live, penetrating only occasionally into this physical level. As they come closer to us, it is going to become more and more clear that the reality of the soul is much bigger than that of the physical, but also that it is nothing like we have imagined. It is going to become inescapable that not only is consciousness in us, we are in consciousness. As our relationship with the visitors deepened, it became inescapable to both Anne and me that the physical world is embedded in a much larger, older and richer reality. However, we cannot yet detect it with any instrument we possess. The result of this is that we deny it altogether, in part because we cannot apply any known method of discovery to it, and in part because we in the west fear that our secular freedoms, acquired at great cost from a religious dictatorship that lasted a thousand years, will be lost to that dictatorship once again if we so much as whisper the possibility that the soul may exist. It is not the soul of religion, though, but something very different, much more real and, in the end, much more obviously part of nature." (from "A New World" by Whitley Strieber, Dr. Jeffrey Kripal)

It seems to me that the "much larger, older and richer reality" referred to by Strieber may correspond to Seth's Framework 2, and the "visitors" are from Framework 2, but occasionally manifest in Framework 1.

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/7tPW1ZX

Quote from: Strieber
However, we cannot yet detect it with any instrument we possess.

Seth has said that more than once! It appears we are able to experience these visitors on a psychic level, which is not considered valid by science and for the most part, people themselves. I'm not sure what science would consider valid proof of "aliens" other than having a craft and some bodies. Which a lot of people believe has already happened but was covered up. I thought the Pentagon's released videos were pretty interesting, and sources such as the military (in this case the Navy) are more credible to me due to their training.

"Navy pilots who think they may have seen unidentified flying objects will now have a detailed means of reporting unexplainable events so the military can keep track of what may, or may not, be happening."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/politics/us-navy-ufo-guidelines/index.html

They don't think the incidents are aliens, but view them as "of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated air space in recent years" but at least they're keeping track, for their own reasons. They may learn something unexpected.

Quote from: Sena
It seems to me that the "much larger, older and richer reality" referred to by Strieber may correspond to Seth's Framework 2, and the "visitors" are from Framework 2, but occasionally manifest in Framework 1.

That makes sense to me.