~Speaking of Seth~

Hi All,

In several of the sessions, like Session 49 and Session 55, located in "The Early Sessions", Book 2, Seth has some very interesting things to say about space travel.  His approach to this topic, seems to be very different than the approach presently taken by the space agencies of various countries (US, European, Russian, Chinese, Japan, etc.) at this time.

I have a couple of questions about this topic.

Below is some background information on Seth's ideas on space travel.


First of all, at the end of Session 47, located in "The Early Sessions", Book 2, Rob talks about a specific "experience" he had while using psychological time.  During this "experience", while he was on laying on his bed in his home in Elmira NY, Rob found himself in an office building in New York City, where he saw a young woman trying to open a window.  This was an office building that Rob had been to, several times earlier in his life.

Then, in the next session, Session 48, Seth talks about Rob's "experience" and says that there are different ways in which such "journeys" can occur. Later on, in Sessions 49 and 55, Seth ties this information into a method that Seth says "will" be used for space travel. But first, in Session 48, Seth had the following about these "journeys":


In some instances the physical body stays in its original location, and the personality-essence moves through camouflage space and time. That is, the personality-essence, realizing that space and time are merely camouflages, is therefore free to behave accordingly.

In this instance of traveling by personality-essence, any contact would be telepathic, and a potential observer would see nothing, using the outer senses alone.

("Wouldn't such an occurrence frighten the observer or recipient?")

Not in the instance mentioned. Another method is somewhat more complicated and involves a diffusion of energies, a partially-visible secondary camouflage body appearing in a new location, while the original body remains in its original position.

In this case the body would appear visible on the bed while another, identical body would appear in the new location to which the personality-essence had traveled. In this case a potential observer would see what would appear to be an ordinary physical being.

Conversation could then be carried on. There are gradations in the degree of materialization here, in that the secondary body would be absolutely normal-appearing in all respects, or could be less so, according to the ability of the traveler.



Then, in Sessions 49 and 55, Seth talks about how this other method which is involved with a diffusion of energies, will eventually be used by us for space travel.  In Session 49, Seth says the following:



I have also said that space travel, so-called, will of necessity deviate from its present concern with vehicles. It will be discovered that the inner senses represent your only long-lasting method of such travel.

When it is understood that space and time are both camouflages, and that your cause and effect theory is a result of a continuity theory that no longer makes sense, then your scientists will recognize the impossibility of trying to decipher basic reality with camouflage instruments, and vehicles, that of themselves produce distortive theories, and only serve to probe further into a camouflage pattern.

[...]

[...] In space travel for example, you are not going to be seen flying through the air like some gray-haired eagle. Your journey will simply not be through space, since space is a camouflage.

When you realize this, then our energy transformation and our change of molecular structure comes into play. There is no barrier of space to be overcome, there is merely a transformation, first of all of psychic energy, and then because you are on your plane bound to many camouflage concepts, there will be a secondary reconstruction of physical image.

In your dreams, when the conscious ego is stilled, you often and continually work this transformation, and we have gone into this problem. What we are concerned with is this reconstruction, but this reconstruction in durable enough terms so that communication can take place.

Even in dreams, this communication has taken place, but we, we want much more. We want such a physical reconstruction of image in a purposeful manner, at a given place and time, on your plane. This is far from impossible, but it requires discipline and training, along with the freedom which more and more Ruburt is able to bring to these sessions.

[...]

[...] You are always and constantly in the process of transforming energy from the inner senses into physical idea constructions. I want you to become acquainted with the process by which you accomplish this unknowingly, so that you can then perform the same feats with your own awareness.



What do you think?

Are we anywhere near approaching space travel based upon Seth's ideas?

Do you think that this is what Jane, Robert Monroe, and people like them were doing in their OOBE (Out – Of – Body) experiences? Is this similar to lucid dreaming?

jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
What do you think?

Are we anywhere near approaching space travel based upon Seth's ideas?

Very interesting! I don't think we are even close to real space travel, if you mean with astronauts because astrophysics (as far as I know) is still completely focused on sending physical rocket ships and instruments into the atmosphere. Using camouflage equipment and ideas to explore the camouflage universe.

"The traveler must leave his own camouflage paraphernalia completely behind however, or he will go nowhere."
—TES7 Session 287 September 21, 1966

"Give us time ... Your universe is only one of many. Each one creates probable versions of itself. When you journey on the earth you move around the outside of it. So far, your ideas of space travel involve that kind of surface navigation. Earth trips, however, are made with the recognition of their surface nature.2 When you think in terms of traveling to other planets or to other galaxies, though, the same kind of surface travel is involved. As closely as I can explain it in your terms, your concepts of space travel have you going around space rather than directly through it."
—UR2 Section 4: Session 712 October 16, 1974

For sure The Monroe Institute is headed in the direction Seth speaks about in your quotes. Our current idea of space travel is physical, transporting a human or equipment from one place to another. That limits travel to within our reality. Seth is talking about psychic travel. From your quotes:

"In space travel for example, you are not going to be seen flying through the air like some gray-haired eagle. Your journey will simply not be through space, since space is a camouflage."
—TES2 Session 49 April 29, 1964

Until we can consciously cross the believed borders of space and time, especially in our sciences, we are going to limit ourselves to exploring—camouflage.

• "When it is understood that space and time are both camouflages, and that your cause and effect theory is a result of a continuity theory that no longer makes sense, then your scientists will recognize the impossibility of trying to decipher basic reality with camouflage instruments, and vehicles, that of themselves produce distortive theories, and only serve to probe further into a camouflage pattern."

• "Your scientists' instruments are themselves distortive, and will only allow you to probe further into camouflage. What you need are tools and instruments that are free from camouflage. Your scientists think in terms of getting beyond earth's atmosphere, and thus avoiding the distortions involved."

• "Hypnotism will be necessary, however, only for a time, and only to induce the light trance state. In the light trance state, the inner self is free from the camouflage nature of your plane, and the truly humorous aspect is this: Only by freeing yourself from your own camouflage universe can you see it clearly, understand it for what it is, and actually learn to use it for mankind's best advantage."

—TES2 Session 49 April 29, 1964

If time and space are not real, multiple systems and dimensions can co-exist but not be sensed because of our focus on THIS dimension and our reliance on the five senses to define reality. True space travel will not actually involve travel, but instead the ability to shift our focus to peer into other dimensions. It seems like we can do this to an extent when sleeping or with OBEs, but I can't imagine too many people being able to do that consciously. We're not meant to.

• "[...] In some of your dream states you do travel through other dimensions and other systems. The extent of these dream travels is determined by your own ability."

—TES6 Session 260 May 18, 1966

Lucid dreaming is the realization during a dream that one is dreaming. I've had several but I've spent my time exploring my dream locations, experimenting, changing scenarios. I feel astral travel is related to both, but a higher skill than lucid dreams and OBEs—they feel less consciously directed to me. I cannot maintain a lucid dream for very long, have only come close to an OBE and have never consciously astral travelled.

People have reported they can consciously (astral) travel to various locations and report verifiable incidents or characteristics of places they "visited" that they've not seen before in their waking state. Such as what Jane did, I think, during some ESP tests. Jane was skilled.

Thoughts?

I read some really interesting stuff when doing a search on the search engine for astral travel. https://findingseth.com/q/astral+travel/20/

Many researchers into UFO phenomena suggest that if they are from another physical star, they have a technology that allows them to transcend space and time. Many debunkers point to the fact that physical travel through multiple light-years of distance would be impossible or highly unlikely. They think in terms of nuts-and-bolts technology and deny any possibility of consciousness-related "travel". But many of these aerial phenomena seem to be able to pop into and out of a location, move in impossible ways, change shape, split like biological cells, and re-merge. Accounts of visitor experiences suggest also that some of these beings transcend the known laws of physics. Quantum theory does suggest that at least information can be instantly transmitted across great distances without being limited by the speed of light. Science toys with the idea of wormholes and bending space. Science fiction toys with stargates, wormholes, portals, warp speed, and 'beam me up, Scotty'.

Quote from: jbseth
What do you think?

Are we anywhere near approaching space travel based upon Seth's ideas?

jbseth, I hope you dont mind my reviving this thread from 2018. I found these quotes:

"The actual telepathy contact with this alien intelligence will occur, your time I believe, not too far distant, perhaps by the year 2001. However, for reasons that I will not go into, a hitch will develop of which your scientists will not be aware, at least in your terms. The intelligence that you contact will no longer inhabit that same universe by the time that the contact is made. By then you will have discovered that your present theory of the expanding universe is in error; and this error will, nevertheless, affect your calculations as to the exact location in your space, of the intelligence that is contacted. The contact will be made, I believe, in Australia. Space travel, in your terms, will develop in a seemingly extravagant and startling fashion, only to be dumped as such when your scientists discover that space as you know it is a distortion, and that journeying from one so-called galaxy to another is done by divesting the physical body from camouflage. The vehicle of so-called space travel is mental and psychic mobility, in terms of psychic transformation of energy, enabling spontaneous and instantaneous mobility through the spacious present." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 2 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

"If scientists think that the inner world is a murky maze of intimate chaos, let them see what happens when they attempt space travel; that is, journeys through a camouflage nonexistent space to begin with, with a camouflage vehicle. They will get no further to the heart of truth or reality than a fly buzzing around the outside, forever-closed-to-him, portion of a round, hard, unripe apple. There are definite experiments that can be tried in scientific laboratories that will enable your scientists to glimpse the inner reality, and to actually discover the ways and means by which the inner energy-self transforms the energy of itself into physical patterns. There are laws which govern the birth and death, not only of men but of all conscious beings, and these laws can be discovered for the asking." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 2 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

"As I have said, so-called space travel will be mainly divorced from vehicles, and the use of psychological time is the very first step in this direction. The barriers are yours. The barriers are camouflage. It is ridiculous to develop camouflage vehicles to deal with camouflage space, when all that is necessary is that you realize that camouflage is camouflage. Therefore the barrier disappears. We will have much more to say along these lines. When you realize that time as you know it does not exist, then vehicles become unnecessary." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 2 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/9O4pobx

Quote from: Sena
jbseth, I hope you dont mind my reviving this thread from 2018. I found these quotes:

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I don't mind at all. 

It's been awhile since I started this topic and as a result, I had to go back and reread what I had actually written here.

In Seth Speaks, Appendix, Session 558, Seth talks about codes being given by a race from another star.  Somehow I've always assumed that the people from this race must have come here using physical spacecraft. However, given what Seth says about this topic, maybe they didn't. Maybe physical space travel is impractical.

Thanks for your post. 


SS, Appendix, S58:
You carried with you in your heads messages and laws that had been given to one of your kind in a time that was already nearly forgotten. These were codes of ethics. They originated from the time of Atlantis. Before that, these codes were given by a race from another star. This race had to do with the origin of Atlantis. The messages were put into words and language and written down at the time of Atlantis, but after that they were handed down by word of mouth.



-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth
Somehow I've always assumed that the people from this race must have come here using physical spacecraft. However, given what Seth says about this topic, maybe they didn't

jbseth, interstellar travel using physical spacecraft is not realistic. It would take thousands of years to travel to Earth from the nearest star system.

https://www.space.com/40507-interstellar-space-travel-and-science-fiction.html

Quote from: Seth
The intelligence that you contact will no longer inhabit that same universe by the time that the contact is made. By then you will have discovered that your present theory of the expanding universe is in error; and this error will, nevertheless, affect your calculations as to the exact location in your space, of the intelligence that is contacted. The contact will be made, I believe, in Australia. Space travel, in your terms, will develop in a seemingly extravagant and startling fashion, only to be dumped as such when your scientists discover that space as you know it is a distortion, and that journeying from one so-called galaxy to another is done by divesting the physical body from camouflage. The vehicle of so-called space travel is mental and psychic mobility, in terms of psychic transformation of energy, enabling spontaneous and instantaneous mobility through the spacious present."

I saw an article headline this morning, "...Russian scientist says we're using the wrong tools to hunt for aliens," and was hoping it was going to say something Seth-like. It didn't, really, but I thought this part was VERY interesting, as it almost seems to tie in with the above quote.

"Panov also believes that communication between civilizations is entirely possible but may not always be two-way, since some ancient civilizations could have stored their knowledge in a sort of cosmic cloud, which could have survived their extinction and still be present thousands or millions of years later."

The part about cosmic cloud reminded me of Jane tapping into the "world views" of Rembrandt, etc.

https://www.rt.com/news/480323-humans-not-alone-russian-scientist/

Quote from: Deb
"Panov also believes that communication between civilizations is entirely possible but may not always be two-way, since some ancient civilizations could have stored their knowledge in a sort of cosmic cloud, which could have survived their extinction and still be present thousands or millions of years later."

The part about cosmic cloud reminded me of Jane tapping into the "world views" of Rembrandt, etc.

Deb, it all fits in with the simulated universe hypothesis. If we are in virtual reality, the computer must have a memory, so Jane was able to tap into the minds of William James and others. Another term for this memory is "the Akashic records":

https://www.edgarcayce.org/the-readings/akashic-records/

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Your quote in your post above, comes from TES2, Session 45.  In this session, dated April 1964, Seth appears to make several erroneous "predictions".




The 4 erroneous predictions, as I see them, are these:

1 Telepathy contact with alien intelligence by year 2001.

2 Contact made in Australia

3 External space travel idea dumped for internal space travel.

4 By year 2000 this will be common knowledge



From what I can tell, here in our year 2020, predictions 3 and 4 definitely haven't occurred and it certainly isn't common knowledge that predictions 1 or 2 have occurred either.



I agree with Seth, when he said in the ESP Class (see SS, Appendix:)

Time, in your terms, is plastic. Most predictions are made in a highly distorted fashion; they can lead the public astray. Not only that, but when the predictors fall flat on their faces it does not help "The Cause."




I do believe that perhaps at some point, we may discover that inner space travel is better than external space travel, but I don't see any evidence that we are anywhere near reaching that conclusion today.

Unfortunately, his lack of success with these predictions, might cause some people to doubt some of his other statements as well.

-jbseth