~Speaking of Seth~

I am so perplexed by this situation.
As a longtime Seth follower I've gotten pretty good at applying these principles.  I started reading these books almost 40 years ago.  My life works really well ....for the most part..  Now I've come across a situation that I can't wrap my mind around that seems beyond  my belief system.  How to wrap my mind around such "evil"?
I work on a blog and I've always focused on the positive rather than fighting the negative.  Lately, however, I put up a few videos about the "evil" of the world.  Some are speculation on the Shadow Government and one is on the effects of radiation coming from Japan.  Here is my blog if you want to check it out.    "Fairy Tales" at   bethnm.blogspot.com
The radiation is a real threat.  I am having a hard time getting over my sadness and feel powerless.   How does one apply Seth Principles to such an event?  I'm adding this Abraham video about child custody.  Abraham aligns well with Seth and if you substituted Planet for Child in the video it is how I feel.   The mechanics are the same.
My question to the members?  How do you align your beliefs to such a massive threat?  I do feel that my beliefs have an effect on the government, but how to transcend radiation?

I think your ideas about the radiation, shadow govt's, etc are secondary. Your beliefs regarding threats might be central.

If you believe something outside of yourself can threaten you, then you will make it very real indeed.  Mass events can influence us only if we have a belief system that allows it. From Big Pharma, Banks, Food, Chemtrails, etc. We all agreed on it. We all need to experience it. But for many of us its something we hear about, or read about, often on the other side of the world. Seth often talks of how the only way to change the things in the world that we don't like, is by living our immediate lives the best way we can. Don't let the bigger picture influence your views, but create your own unique picture, and the entire world changes ever so slightly.

Now, if it's something that's affecting your life personally, then you must ask yourself why you created such circumstances to begin with. What do you need that only such circumstances can offer?

Have faith in yourself Beth.

LK

The answer I need to hear LenK.   
While I live inland in the US, how do you deal with your feelings about living so close to Japan and the effects of the radiation?  In the bigger picture is this how the Cosmos create new mutations on purpose?  I'm having a hard time separating my cozy life from the health of my Planet.

My thoughts go out to those affected by the drama, particularly the Japanese people.

But its like the middle east. My prayers go out to those in war torn areas. But that's about it. I don't think about it, unless it pops up on something I'm viewing.

Mutations? Quite possibly. I don't know for sure, but I believe it will sort itself out.

If it affects my life, then I'll take action, but till then I go about my day to day business. If it kills me, destroys the earth, kills animals, etc....lots of 'ifs', but they're mostly negative, so i choose not to pursue that line of thought. It won't help anyone anyway.

I'm not concerned about the health of the planet. Don't get me wrong, I do my part, but the Earth spirit will survive, as it has done for millenia, and I believe it knows its own role in the scheme of things.

LK

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/animas-river-spill-by-the-numbers/
This is what happened to the River which is a 15 min walk away.  While the river has cleared up the orange toxic sludge still clings to the banks.

Quote from: BethAnneNow I've come across a situation that I can't wrap my mind around that seems beyond  my belief system.  How to wrap my mind around such "evil"?

Beth, is the situation apart from what you mention in your post? Something in your personal life? BTW I thought the A-H video was a good one for explaining how to transcend a bad situation. I seem to struggle with the process when I'm in the thick of it, but somehow, maybe subconsciously, I manage to dig myself out and improvements snowball from there. Of course, snowballs can roll the other way too, which is probably what has gotten me into the rare predicament.

I tend to not focus on things like radiation, the Gulf oil spill several years ago, global warming... because I never know how much of the news that reaches us is real, contrived, inflated. Since finding A-H and then Seth, I also catch myself if my thoughts stray, knowing that if I put too much thought into negativity I'm just going to add fuel to the fire. I don't feel there are any massive threats, and am sick and tired of the sensationalism over things like the latest pandemic, speculation of who is going to bomb who and when, etc. That whole mass events concept of people participating voluntarily, subconsciously, makes sense to me. At least the way Seth explained it.

I also feel that the planet is very good at taking care of itself and the harm that humans may do will end up in our demise—the planet will soldier on. All I need to do is look at an old homestead and see how quickly the earth reclaims it's surface, quickly decaying manmade structures and erasing signs that we were here. Sure, some things just don't compost, at least not within a time frame that we can recognize, but in the scheme of things there isn't a thing that Mother Nature can't take care of.

This quote came across from FB today, it seems a little appropriate, at least with respect to how A-H was explaining why that poor woman was in the situation with her child. That poor woman! This solution sounds simple enough "on paper." Having the mental self-control to follow through is another story.

"You cannot escape your own attitudes, for they will form the nature of what you see.
Quite literally, you see what you want to see, and you see your own thoughts,
your own emotional attitudes, materialized in physical form. If changes are to occur,
they must be physical and psychic changes. These will be reflected in your physical environment.
Negative, distrustful, fearful, or degrading attitudes toward anyone work against the self
and against the individuals involved. Now if you would change an individual,
change your thoughts toward him, and changes will appear in the sense data world."

Seth (Jane Roberts), 'The Early Sessions', Book 8, Session 340.

The river photo is very dramatic. I remember when that happened. I also wonder why things like that happen, what "good" comes from it. A Mass Event. Making a statement. Or some piece of a puzzle that will at some point, probably long after I'm gone, make sense? Maybe it has to do with those 500,000 other mines...

I think maybe I'm jumpy about Japan because I'm watching what is going on in my backyard.  At the time the Vision I got was that the Earth was a living organism and this toxic spill was like lancing a boil.   It brought issues to the surface.  The Navajo Nation REALLY dug into this situation.  While all the other towns resumed using this for their drinking     I think they are still banning it because they are thinking long term.  I feel it is giving them an issue that will empower them.  A lot of Bid Deals from Washington and the State are bending over backwards because the Natives...Utes and Navajo....are not taking this quietly.  There is more talk about the water safety in general since then.
Also, between the Native healers and the large healing community in Durango and the smaller towns the gossip is that the EPA are amazed at how quickly things cleared up.
Because of my background I feel pretty good about my personal life.  However, after coming back from Santa Fe and having that handful of Alternative Healings and especially having my brain Defragmented at Sacred Space in Durango I came back a very changed and healed person who is/was WAY out of sync with the people I had known before.  This past year it's been almost spooky how I would run into someone significant from my past.  We would be so glad to see each other and after a couple of hours it was most uncomfortable for both.  We just were not able to put it back together even if you used Super Glue! 
I met Crystal when I took my necklaces there for her to sell and she did a reading.  At the end she says "Well, you have a lot of Aliens around you  and they want to know if you want to have your brain defragged?"  I casually said "Sure".  The results were AMAZING within hours.  I went from Pollyanna to Lara Croft.      Freaked people out.

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around this topic. 
I don't think I'm afraid of evil, but wondering from a Seth perspective how one deals with destruction on this scale that will last for a very long time.   
One of the big complaints from "normal" people is that New Age is BS because you just can't Wish things away.  Being confronted as a Christian Scientist over wishing illness away I understand their disbelief.  And it does seem pretty airy fairy to be naively smiley all the time.  As a CSer I can work with illness and relationships, make my garden grow and enchant babies.  But how does one deal with massive earth disasters? 

I'm looking for a process here, not to make my unease go away.  If someone is ill I "scan" their energy, whether they want to be healed and then override the existing situation. 

With radiation, do we hold that someone is going to invent a solution?  Transmute the radiation?  Assume that Spirit wants the planet to mutate?

As a  Sethian, How do you align yourself to something to big?
http://drsircus.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/fukushima.jpg

http://img1.gtsstatic.com/fukushima/cette-tomate-presente-une-forme-etrange-depuis-son-exposition-aux-radiations-de-fukushima_129869_w460.jpg
http://alexanderhiggins.com/mutated-baby-bird-with-2-heads-3-beaks-follows-mutated-plants-in-fukushima-us/

You can't wish illness away, because your focus is still on illness. Hating war will not bring peace. Again, the focus is on war, regardless of your hatred of it.

Question your beliefs regarding destruction. It too is a creative force. Also, look into your beliefs re the Spirit of the Earth? Do you really trust Nature? Do you think it can be a victim? And maybe deeper parts of yourself and your connections will be found in this beautiful theater we call Earth.

Perhaps these thoughts you're allowing are merely signs to move away from the area you live in? Or to take a vacation, at the least.

Just my thoughts.

LK

Question your beliefs regarding destruction. It too is a creative force. Also, look into your beliefs re the Spirit of the Earth?

I think I'm getting closer!   

    Hi again Beth ;

                 Why focus on evil at all ?

                 Deb + Lenkop have given you some precious advice on this topic but i get the feeling you are one of the old worlders who must have some evil to do battle with or there is no reward .

                 THERE IS NO EVIL .

                 If you think there is in your life then you must deal with your beliefs as Deb + Len have advised + learn to live without it + not  focus on it in any way at all. Only you can set yourself free in this respect , so do it , drop the evil out of your life + live in peace with yourself now .

                 Sorry to say this but i think that the abraham hicks message is just a wishy washy dilution of the Seth material, nothing origional there + you would do better to digest the Seth message than to get lead down the garden path by all the rest of the pretenders . I suppose it does do some good to those who cannot fathom the Seth books but that's about the best i can say of it . 

                 Seth is the origional + the best .

       peace , paul

Seth is the origional + the best .
Oh, I totally agree.  Seth is my baseline.  I like that it is like a tech manual without a lot of sentimentality.  But I am like a crow that pads her nest with bright and shiny objects.  I can see my kids nodding their heads.     I try to look for patterns in things.  A-H is very Christian Science and I feel real comfortable with that. 

And being a CSer, not being raised at all with the concept of evil...and being pre-TV I saw no evil...  That's my crux.  I don't see evil in illness or people.  Why Fukishima?  I can see the polarity in these other events, but not Japan. 

It seems like, from a Sethian point of view, the Japanese are reliving a mass event.  Would this be a psychic mass event for these people after having nuclear bombs dropped on them.  It reminds me about reading in Seth about the coincidence of a nuclear accident  at the same time the movie "China Syndrom" came out.  I'll have to dig up that quote.

So it's not like a scary evil to me but a puzzling evil.  Ultimately, Nothing happens for no reason.

Quote from: BethAnneBut how does one deal with something like radiation.  I'm asking from a technical  view.

Quote from: BethAnneWhy Fukishima?  I can see the polarity in these other events, but not Japan. 

Where's Seth when we need him? I'm not being sarcastic here, just longing for one of his low-key logical explanations to help me see the bigger picture. Maybe I'll skim thru Mass Events and see if anything comes close to explaining.

Radiation definitely has a lasting effect. Chernobyl http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/29/babushkas-of-chernobyl-film-nuclear-exclusion-zone and other places in Russia, places in the US, other areas in the world that became radioactive for one reason or another are still radioactive and will be forever as far as I'm concerned. And radiation definitely has a devastating effect on all living and soon-to-be living things.

Quote from: BethAnneUltimately, Nothing happens for no reason.

Nice twist on everything happens for a reason!
There are reasons for these events. Interestingly, Wiki explains Fukushima as an energy accident initiated primarily by the tsunami that was triggered by the Tohoku earthquake. So, an energy accident caused by energy (tsunami) caused by energy (earthquake). All three were massive releases of pent-up energy. Some sort of statement for sure.

Tesla, other physicists (even Seth?) talk(ed) about limitless energy that we have not yet figured out a way to tap into (the zero point energy field?). Accidents such as these may also serve as a catalyst for us to find alternative sources of energy. Ones that are not finite and don't mess up the planet, like we're doing right now.

I'm curious about others' here and their intuitions about your radiation question. And this is something else for me to think about.

Quote from: voidypaulTHERE IS NO EVIL .

Ah, perfect timing. I've been hanging on to this quote from Facebook and it seems I have a place to put it.

"Let me take this moment to state again that there are no devils or demons, except as you create them out of your belief. As mentioned earlier, good and evil effects are basically illusions. In your terms all acts, regardless of their seeming nature, ARE a part of a greater good.

"I am not saying that a good end justifies what you would consider an evil action. While you still accept the effects of good and evil, then you had better choose the good.

"I am saying this as simply as possible. There are profound complications beneath my words, however. Opposites have validity only in your own system of reality. They are a part of your root assumptions, and so you must deal with them as such.
"You are being taught, and you are teaching yourselves to handle energy, to become conscious co-creators with All That Is, and one of the 'stages of development' or learning processes includes dealing with opposites as realities.

"In your terms, the ideas of good and evil help you recognize the sacredness of existence, the responsibility of consciousness."

Seth Speaks, Session 587

Actually, the radiation is NOT evil.  I really didn't know why I saw it as such until later.
"Evil" implies intent and a tsunami, while a mass event, was not a conscious thing except in the most broadest sense.  Interesting, evil backward is live.   
After I got a "push" on the forum I sat down and pondered.

I see now why I have so much resistance on this.  While the radiation is a long term toxic event, what it did was take me back to the 50s as a small kid.  By that time tv was starting to crank up.  There was a lot of chatter about bomb shelters and fall out.  I clearly remember now watching a live play about an atomic attack.  There was a small girl who was blinded by the blast and then it showed people franticly raiding a grocery store.  To me being so small I did not realize it was a play and thought it was the news.  I freaked out knowing that there were only two options.  Death or total destruction.   Also at the time I was probably on barbituates for seizures by that time so who knows how deeply I reacted?
And that is my knee jerk reaction to anything nuclear.

At that time also there was a book of photos about the camps in Germany and I knew enough that I knew Japan and Germany had been at war with us and this was the result.

Recently watched "Blast From the Past" with Christopher Walken, Sissy Spacek and Brandon Fraizer.  A very funny spoof on bomb shelters in the 50s.

But my initial question is still there.  If dealing with a "negative" so huge and permanent was a medical issue, what would be the procedure to deal with this.  As a CSer, if it was a sick person I would only "see" them well.  I'm having to really expand my awareness of the Planet as ill and see it as Eden.

Just remember...duck and cover...

I think the multiple reasons for mass events might be a big ask for one individual to fathom. Perhaps one reason for any mass event might be for all the individuals involved to get shaken up a bit and look at their own beliefs, and once these beliefs are sorted, then even the mass event is worked out.

This situation has brought things up in you Beth from long ago. Maybe it's an older energy that is resurfacing while many are still alive who remember the old days when the cold war was being waged. A reflection, if you will, of those who haven't let go of life long issues within themselves.

Regarding the 'negative' part. I think that, again, has to be taken on an individual basis before anything else. Particularly each persons view and beliefs re negativity, positivity, and polarity in general. I don't think there's much difference whether the issue is medical or otherwise.

LK

Perhaps one reason for any mass event might be for all the individuals involved to get shaken up a bit and look at their own beliefs,
Duck and cover!  As if!

Somewhere I read that all the Godzilla movies was a cultural reaction to having their country bombed with atomic weapons.  In what strange way did their culture mutate because of witnessing a Mushroom Cloud?  Are the currents blowing back radiation to the States as cosmic payback?

Witnessing all that Cold War Propaganda and then reading about what was going on behind the scenes later which led to Viet Nam.  The US has a lot of Karma to balance.   

who haven't let go of life long issues within themselves.
We thought we were going to die and were to young to understand.  I went to first grade expecting to duck and cover.  Now I get emotional for children caught in war.  For awhile it was a reality for my 6 year old mind.  I can't imagine a child having to witness war.
Then having been a teen in the 60's I'm baffled at how complacent society is now. 

   Great quotes Deb ,
                    you are good on finding these useful passages + probably have a  better
working knowledge in some ways than me , i find it difficult to place certain quotes even tho i have read the books for 30 yrs(most of them),  makes me wish that i either had a photographic memory or had bothered to categorize Seths quotes in one way or another.  I have made a start recently but i'm at the stage of finding out that i have to start again as my 1st attempt was way too feeble haha .



Hi Beth ;   
          love the way you set to exploring your beliefs + feelings. Its not an easy thing to do , to get them out + make them public (well, among your sethie peers)  , examine them + allow others to comment on them + end up making some  great little breakthroughs , as you have .
          That is very courageous Beth + very nicely handled . A good example  . I hope you will forgive me for saying , it is especially surprising because you are from another generation (the 50s as a small kid) + yet still so nimble + quick of mind in such an expansive way. You're a little groove tube in my books BethAnne .

         Barbiturates for seizures sounds quite serious (a strong group of drugs)  for a child + i hope you found a cure .

         I was a child in the 60's , a great time to grow up with all that lovely music , an enduring memory for me + very positive .

         The nuclear question is an entirely valid + important one + we must all try + do our little bit to help chip away at it , if only in mind by one's attitudes + intents.

Seth says it is  well + good to be aware of the travails + injustices of the world but if one carries them around with us it can make us ill + get in the way of the good intentions + healing energies  that do indeed flow out of us to those others who need it , but the worrysomness can block it .

           It can also rob us of our own inner freedom from such things + of being  able to be at peace in ourselves +  receptive to the healing energies of the inner  self
     
        Seth says to dissociate daily , regularly , to help keep the whole system clear + in good tone . All healing energies are reinforced when one finds peace + tranquility within .
       It is important that we all keep ourselves well + free of stress , if only for a moment each day .

       I think what Seth calls dissociation + Buddhists call medit' is basically the same thing , the turning away of cons' from  exterior activity  , + inwards toward the center or source of being .   

     Tranquility med' has  always been my favorite

     Such a nice simple thing to do , to find a tranquil 'space' within .
      Maybe like Seth's mental enclosure .

peace , paul


Hi John ,

  i don't really want to come across overly critical of AH + i feel i must agree with you  that it has its place . These are well intentioned people so i should eat a bit of humble pie + take what has been said on board. They must work quite hard to put the message out + good luck to them . Much of the time i just sit on my big bad ass , so who am i to talk .

    I just love the Seth stuff , somewhat addicted  i think .

    I'm convinced that if anyone can really digest Seth's system then they would be close to some kind of enlightenment .  He's a deep mystic beneath the intellectual veneer .

peace , paul


   
   Hi LenKop ;

             well said , you  have some good insights into these subjects , very sethian .

 Barbiturates for seizures sounds quite serious (a strong group of drugs)  for a child + i hope you found a cure .My family has a thread of psychic ability.  I just happened to have more than my brain could hold and I think I flipped out from being overwhelmed.  The Drs had no idea what was up so just gave me a blanket prescription for drugs.  To cope I forced myself to rise above it all.

Thanks for the compliments.  I am a Groovy Gal.   

The Three Mile Island accident was a partial nuclear meltdown that occurred on March 28, 1979, in reactor number 2 of Three Mile Island Nuclear Generating Station (TMI-2) in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, United States. It was the worst accident in U.S. commercial nuclear power plant history.[2] The incident was rated a five on the seven-point International Nuclear Event Scale: Accident With Wider Consequences/  Wikipedia

The China Syndrome (1979) Trailer
The China Syndrome was the idea of a nuclear accident that melted a hole to China.  The movie and Three Mile Island came out the same year and I remember reading in Seth on how there are no coincidences. 
Radioactive - The Firm

"As I see it, there is a symbiotic relationship between the breakdown of the emotional body through karma and the breakdown of radioactive elements via transmutation."    Barbara Hand Clow (The Pleiadian Agenda)
Barbara Hand Clow on A Fireside Chat with Zany Mystic - July 31st, 2010 - 1/4

"The Pleiadian Agenda" has some great, hard to grasp, understanding on the elementals and our need to understand the consciousness of the first dimensional elementals.  Couldn't find any quotes tho.

Quote from: LenKopSeth often talks of how the only way to change the things in the world that we don't like, is by living our immediate lives the best way we can.

Barrie Comments: Seth doesn't say that that is the only way. This is a short glimpse of the various things Seth has said about helping others. He is talking about and implying taking ACTIONS to help others directly. Living our immediate lives the best way we can, is the FIRST step. In the following quotes I have added CAPS for emphasis:

Seth (ESP Class, 6-11-74): "If you allow your spontaneity its own freedom, then you can quite happily have whatever you want. But spontaneity will also lead you to thoughts of love for others. It will lead you to realize that you cannot plunder your planet, and it will lead you to realize that as long as one person is starving then YOU are starving in ways that YOU are too ignorant to recognize."

SETH (June 9, 1984, from 'Way Toward Health'): "The point is that all of the world's problems also represent great challenges. Young people in particular are needed to take up the tasks of deregulating and redistributing food sources, and of encouraging nations to join in such a creative venture. Those are worthy and stirring causes, as noble as any that graced any generation in the past. The world needs every hand and eye, and cries out for expression of love and caring."

Seth (Class, 8-18-70): "YOU ARE NOW DWELLING IN PHYSICAL REALITY. IT BEHOOVES YOU TO HELP OTHERS. When you take from others, you take from yourselves. When you give to others, you give to yourselves."

Barrie Comments: I looked up "behooves" and it means: To be necessary or proper for. Therefore, Seth is saying that "it is necessary or proper for you to help others." 

Seth (Session 550): "You cannot say, 'The poor are poor simply because they chose poverty and therefore there is no need for me to help them.' This attitude can easily draw poverty to you in the next experience."   

Seth (Session 64): "...WHEN IT IS POSSIBLE IT IS NOT ONLY WISE BUT ADVANTAGEOUS TO HELP ANY LIVING CREATURE, REGARDLESS OF ITS STATURE IN YOUR SCHEME OF THINGS..."

SETH (Session 697): "The race suffers when any of its members die of starvation or disease, even as a whole plant suffers if a group of its leaves are 'unhappy'. In the same way all members of the species are benefited by the happiness, health, and fulfillment of those individuals who compose it."

Seth (Session 426): I am telling you what I know, and there is much I do not know. I KNOW THAT HELP MUST BE GIVEN, ONE TO THE OTHER, AND THAT EXTENSION AND EXPANSION ARE AIDS TO BEING."

Seth (Session 897): "Good intent is apparent within your world. It is obvious in the cooperative ventures that unite say, the mineral, plant, and animal kingdoms, the relationship of bee to flower. And your beliefs to the contrary, YOU HAVE CLOSED YOUR MINDS TO MAN'S COOPERATIVE NATURE, TO HIS INNATE DESIRE FOR FELLOWSHIP, HIS NATURAL BENT FOR TAKING CARE OF OTHERS, AND FOR ALTRUISTIC BEHAVIOR."

Barrie Comments: By the way, I looked up the word "altruistic" and it means: Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness." So, Seth is directly saying that humans have a NATURAL BENT to have an unselfish concern for the welfare of others and that help MUST be given one to the other.

Seth (June 9, 1984, from Way To Health): "Some people might say, I have a right to die, when they are arguing the case for suicide. And while this is true, IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT THE PEOPLE ON YOUR PLANET NEED EVERY BIT OF HELP AND ENCOURAGEMENT THEY CAN GET FROM EACH PERSON ALIVE. In a certain sense, the energy of each individual DOES keep the world going, and to commit suicide is to refuse a basic, cooperative venture."

Seth (ESP Class, 6-18-74): "When you are truly and completely yourselves, you will not hurt others. You will be individual and yourself, and being TRULY individual will mean that there is no need to hurt another."

Barrie Comments: So, in summary, as I see it, if Seth says that we MUST help others, that it behooves us to help others, and that it is in our nature to act altruistically--AND if he ALSO says that if we were truly and completely ourselves we would not hurt others--then I contend that helping and not hurting others ARE some KEYS to the Seth material. And why, because it is in our nature to do so.

He also says, elsewhere, that the PURPOSE of choosing physical reality is to learn that we create our own reality and in so doing we are help and not hurt others...and once these lessons are learned, then we leave the reincarnational cycle behind and move on to other realities in which reality creation is instant and more intense.

Be well & happy,
Barrie

Quote from: voidypaulSeth says to dissociate daily , regularly ,

Where does Seth say this? I'd rather see the quote myself than solely rely on your interpretation of it, if that is what it is. Thanks.

Why not have a little actual Seth on evil to help ground the discussions:

Seth (Session 546): "A belief in demons is highly disadvantageous after death, as it is during physical existence. A systematized theology of opposites is also detrimental. If you believe, for example, that all good must be balanced by evil, then you bind yourself into a system of reality that is highly limiting, and that contains within it the seeds of great torment."

Seth (Session 710):  "There is no reason, for example, to encounter any demons or devils in any trance or out-of-body condition. In such cases your own hallucinations blind you to the environment within which they are projected. When your consciousness is not directly focused in physical reality, then, the great creativity of the psyche is given fuller play. All of its dimensions are faithfully and instantly produced experience when you learn to take your "normally alert" conscious mind with you; and when you are free of such limiting ideas, then at those levels you can glimpse the inner powers of your own psyche, and watch the interplay of beliefs and symbols as they are manifested before your eyes. Until you learn to do this you will most certainly have difficulty, for you will not be able to tell the difference between your projections and what is happening in the inner environment. Exploration of inner reality must necessarily involve a journey through the psyche, and these effects can be thought of as atmospheric conditions, natural at a certain stage, through which you pass as you continue."

Seth (Session 921): "Devils and demons have no objective existence. They have always represented, again, portions of mankind's own psychological reality that to some extent he had not assimilated -- but in a schizophrenic kind of expression, projected instead outward from himself."

Seth (ESP Class 1-16-73): "Now you can take on penance and retribution if you want to. You can believe that you are sinful and evil and in order to be good you must cleanse yourself, and you can accept then a method that will cleanse you. You chose a hard road on your own, of guilt and retribution, of torture quite as severe as his, but more prone. You chose your own framework. You chose your own. Neither would be necessary if you understood the basic beauty of yourselves — the basic integrity and joy of your being. But, when you do not understand that, then you will look for it through whatever doors are available and open. You will search for it as a dried animal searches for water in a desert....But, when you believe that you must test yourself, and when you believe that there must be demons, and good and evil, and contests, then you form them and your reality."

Seth (SESSION 546): "The intellect says, 'If there is good, there must be evil,' for it wants things explained in neat parcels. If there is an up, there must be a down. There must be balance. The inner self, however, realizes that in much larger terms, evil is simply ignorance--that 'up' and 'down' are neat terms applied to space which knows no such directions. A strong belief in such opposing forces is highly detrimental, however, for it prevents an understanding of the facts--the facts of inner unity and of oneness, of interconnections, of cooperation. A belief, therefore, an obsessional belief in such opposing factors, is perhaps the most detrimental element--not only after death but during any existence. There are some individuals who have never experienced during physical life that sense of harmony and oneness in which such opposing factors merge. Such individuals have many states to go through following transition, and usually many other physical lives 'ahead' of them."

Seth (ESP Class, 12-1-70):    "Now, the spontaneous self, the inner self left alone, is a good thing, and we will not go into a definition of the word good. Left alone the inner self keeps your body functioning and your eyesight keen; it keeps your balance perfect; it keeps you alive; it gives you a sense of joy and vitality and it fills you with a joy of All That Is which, as most of you know, is my term for the word God.

"Left alone then you are a perfect creature, and you feel a oneness with nature. And when you walk down the street you feel a unity between your fingertips and the leaf tops and between your feet and the pavement beneath it. It is only when you meddle with the spontaneous self that difficulties arise and these difficulties you may, if you prefer, call evil. Evil arises, and we will not go into a definition of the word evil, when and precisely when you do not realize that the inner self is the source of joy, vitality and creativity. And at that point, indeed, when doubts enter in, then you mistrust yourself and the inner self that forms your physical image. Then when you do not accept the spontaneous self you decide you will accept certain feelings and deny others. And those that you deny, that you do not regard as acceptable, these grow up within you until they achieve a strong charge. And those repressed charges, individually and en masse, cause violence. And if you want to equate the word violence with evil then that is the origin of it, and it is mistrust of the spontaneous self, the inner self that is within you all."

Seth (Session 426): I am telling you what I know, and there is much I do not know. I KNOW THAT HELP MUST BE GIVEN, ONE TO THE OTHER, AND THAT EXTENSION AND EXPANSION ARE AIDS TO BEING."

Thanks Barrie for putting so much effort into this.  Clarifying.
The duality of Good/Evil is not part of my programming so that is not where I'm getting hung up here.  The first thing someone comes up with who tried to disprove Sethian et al concepts is that it is unrealistic to just "wish" the bad away.  How can you argue with that?  As an intuitive healer I am always looking for more precise ways of lifting things up.  At some level I KNOW it is possible to remove the radiation from the ocean but how many of us are at that point yet? 

So had an epiphany yesterday...a Voice bouncing off the inside of my skull.  "Meditation may not remove the radiation but will bring people and solutions together."   So visualization brings solutions for action.  I can work with that.   

It was comforting to have Seth quote that "there is much I do not know".  I like that we still have to factor in that Wild Card.   

Seth says that there is goodness that exists beyond or behind the duality of good and evil.

SETH [Session 546]: "Quite simply, a belief in the good without a belief in the evil may seem highly unrealistic to you. This belief, however, is the best kind of insurance that you can have, both during physical life and afterward. It may outrage your intellect, and the evidence of our physical senses may shout that it is untrue--yet a belief in good without a belief in evil is actually highly realistic--since in physical life it will keep your body healthier, keep you psychologically free of many fears and mental difficulties--and bring you a feeling of ease and spontaneity in which the development of your abilities can be better fulfilled. After death it will release you from the belief in demons and hell, and enforced punishment. You will be better prepared to understand the nature of reality as it is."

Barrie Comments: I include this quote to show that Seth talks of a "good" which exists OUTSIDE the duality of good & evil, altho this may seem "highly unrealitic." This observation of "goodness" is a judgement. Seth could easily have said: Life IS. It is not good; nor bad. It is. No judgement should ever be made.

Quote from: BethAnneThe first thing someone comes up with who tried to disprove Sethian et al concepts is that it is unrealistic to just "wish" the bad away.  How can you argue with that? 

Barrie Responds: BethAnne, it is very simple. It is the belief that is most strongly held that gets created or attracted in YCYOR--it is not the belief you most consciously hold. So, simply wishing for something will do nothing IF there conflicting beliefs that you hold more strongly.

Quote from: BethAnneIt was comforting to have Seth quote that "there is much I do not know".  I like that we still have to factor in that Wild Card.   

Barrie Respond: BethAnne, I'm not sure how much you have to factor this in...for Seth also said that material he gives thru Jane is as pure as the material can be given to someone physical.

Here's Seth and I added the CAPS for emphasis only:

Seth (Session 47; CAPS originally underlined): "Truth contains no distortions, and this material with all my best efforts, and with yours (Rob & Jane), of necessity must contain distortions merely in order to make itself exist at all on your plane. I will never condone an attitude in which either you or Ruburt maintain that you hold undiluted truth through these sessions. Any material, to exist on your plane, MUST TO SOME EXTENT DONE THE ATTIRE of your plane, and in the very entry to your plane it must be somewhat distorted. I must use phrases with which your minds are somewhat familiar. I must use Ruburt's subconscious to some degree. If I did not take advantage of your own camouflage system, then YOU would not be able to understand the material at this time. Inner data, even this, MUST make its entry through some distortion. We must always work together, but you must never consider me as an INFALLIBLE source. THIS MATERIAL IS MORE VALID THAN ANY MATERIAL POSSIBLE ON YOUR PLANE, BUT IT IS NEVERTHELESS TO SOME DEGREE CONDITIONED BY THE CAMOUFLAGE ATTRIBUTES OF THE PLANE."

Barrie NOW Comments: My point is--is that the much that Seth does not know--is knowable to advanced entities way beyond Seth only. I don't believe what Seth says here is to used to for people to say, "Well, I know it but Seth doesn't know it." OR things like that.

Barrie NOW Comments: My point is--is that the much that Seth does not know--is knowable to advanced entities way beyond Seth only. I don't believe what Seth says here is to used to for people to say, "Well, I know it but Seth doesn't know it." OR things like that
I'm not saying that someone on this plane would know more than Seth thru Jane but still the concepts are through her filter.   She had conflicted emotions with her religion, her health and her family.  I am not the one to say how that influenced the filter of her channeling.    What I was getting at was that even with the best of channelings there is probably something that was unsaid or addressed which adds a Wild Card option to reality.  Maybe that Wild Card exists in each reader.

Barrie Comments: I include this quote to show that Seth talks of a "good" which exists OUTSIDE the duality of good & evil, altho this may seem "highly unrealitic." This observation of "goodness" is a judgement. Seth could easily have said: Life IS. It is not good; nor bad. It is. No judgement should ever be made.

I understand that LIFE IS> 
My original pondering is how, as a Sethian Tech, does one approach something like radiation pouring into the ocean.  ??  I can read all the Seth or Ester Hicks books but what is the point if I don't apply them in a practical way in my life. 
As a Christian Science Practioner when dealing with someone who is ill, one "sees" them in their perfection.  If a person is lacking you "see" abundance.  That is simple.
But on the scale of radiation and the ocean how does one approach it in a practical way using Seth principles?  Where does one put their mind/emotions to something on that scale?  Transmute?  Ignore?  Avoid?  Accept?

In the BIG Picture I'm guessing this has something to do with unresolved issues from the US dropping atomic bombs on Japan.    But as an individual, where do I place myself in that drama?  I love that beach and thought I might move back to the NW.   But I won't now. 

BethAnne Writes: I understand that LIFE IS> 

Barrie Responds: According to the Seth material, at least, LIFE IS GOOD--for there is a good that exists beyond the duality of good & evil. Also, Seth has said that the universe is both safe and as playful as a kitten...Also, he has said that love is the basis for all existence and holds the universe in place...all of these descriptions are more than simply "Life is."  That said, you should follow your heart and believe what makes sense to you.

BethAnne Writes: My original pondering is how, as a Sethian Tech, does one approach something like radiation pouring into the ocean.  ??  I can read all the Seth or Ester Hicks books but what is the point if I don't apply them in a practical way in my life. 

Barrie Responds: I'm not sure what a Sethian Tech is--but everyone creates their own reality via their beliefs, emotions, and expections. So, everyone is already applying things in practical ways. IF someone wants to change something, then they should identify which beliefs they want to change and change them. Usually changing them to their opposites works fine.

BethAnne: As a Christian Science Practioner when dealing with someone who is ill, one "sees" them in their perfection.  If a person is lacking you "see" abundance.  That is simple.

Barrie Responds: If a person is lacking, you also can outright try to help them. We are creatures of interaction. We are here both to learn we create our own reality AND in the process to help and not harm others. HELPING OTHERS is crucial to our learning. It is the active part of our nature--which is loving, compassionate and good--and thus acting in harmony with those characteristics is the most spontaneous and authentic you can be.

BethAnne Continues: But on the scale of radiation and the ocean how does one approach it in a practical way using Seth principles?  Where does one put their mind/emotions to something on that scale?  Transmute?  Ignore?  Avoid?  Accept?

Barrie Responds: You do similar to what you said earlier--you work on your beliefs that you are safe and healthy and you will remain safe and healthy. Don't go swimming new leaking nuke plants, tho.

BethAnne Continues: In the BIG Picture I'm guessing this has something to do with unresolved issues from the US dropping atomic bombs on Japan.    But as an individual, where do I place myself in that drama?  I love that beach and thought I might move back to the NW.   But I won't now.

Barrie Responds: As an individual, go and enjoy the beach--and bring suntan lotion.

Quote from: barrieSeth says that there is goodness that exists beyond or behind the duality of good and evil.

The way I see things, good, love, health are the natural states of being/existence but we humans muck it all up with our perceptions, beliefs, judgment, misunderstanding. One of my favorite Seth quotes is "miracles are nature unimpeded." Miracles are the natural, undisturbed state but get elevated to (rare) miracle status because we just can't seem to let things be.

Quote from: barrieSeth could easily have said: Life IS. It is not good; nor bad. It is. No judgement should ever be made.

Yep. Judgment is completely subjective, based on the beliefs that become our filters. Not enough people understand that.

Quote from: barrieSo, simply wishing for something will do nothing IF there conflicting beliefs that you hold more strongly.

Wow, great point. I suppose that's the nature of a wish—a wish being the hope that things will turn out differently despite our deepest convictions. We wish because we don't believe something is possible. I suppose in that respect a wish can be a useful tool to ferret out so-called hidden beliefs. Saying or thinking "I wish" should send up a flag that we need to re-examine our beliefs.

Quote from: DebBarrie Wrote: Seth could easily have said: Life IS. It is not good; nor bad. It is. No judgement should ever be made.

Deb Responded:Yep. Judgment is completely subjective, based on the beliefs that become our filters. Not enough people understand that.

Barrie Comments: I think you misunderstood me here. I meant that Seth COULD HAVE said that, but he didn't. We make judgments all the time--it is part of our reality creation and assessing that reality we are creating. Being judgmental, and putting people down, etc--is something else.

Seth (ESP Class, 1-16-71): "You are meant to JUDGE physical reality. You are meant to realize that physical reality is a materialization of your thoughts and feelings and images. You are meant to realize that the inner self forms that world. You cannot be allowed, in your terms, to go into other dimensions until you understand the power of your thought and subjective feelings. So even when you think you destroy, you destroy nothing. And when you think that you kill, you kill nothing. And when you imagine that you can destroy a reality, you can only destroy a reality as you know it, the reality itself will continue to exist."

..........

Seth (ESP Class, 11-16-71): "...do not JUDGE the information that you get in the terms in which you are used to JUDGING it. There is a validity to the information that you received, and accept that validity. Accept it, and realize that the nature of its validity will come to you. Do not insist it must necessarily mean that this is completely your imagination, or hogwash, or that it is the god's truth on the other hand, and that there is nothing but an abyss between. You have picked up legitimate information. You have perceived and to some extent had the sensations of the personality that was Dolly Madison."

...........

Seth (Session 635): "Many of your problems result from the fact that you do not accept [the] responsibility of your own consciousness. It is meant to ASSESS the reality that is unconsciously formed in direct replica of your thoughts and expectations. When you do not embrace this conscious knowledge, [when you] refuse [to use] it, you are not using one of the finest 'tools' ever created by your species, and are to a large extent denying your birthright and heritage."

Seth (Session 615): "Since it is the function of the conscious mind to ASSESS physical experience, it [the inner self] hasn't been able to do its job properly. If the inner portions of the self were supposed to have that responsibility, then you would not need a conscious mind."



Seth (Session 635) "Natural guilt is also highly connected with memory, and arose hand in hand with mankind's excursion into the experience of past, present and future. Natural guilt was meant as a preventive measure.  It needed the existence of a sophisticated memory system in which new situations and experiences could be JUDGED against recalled ones, and evaluations made in an in-between moment of reflection.

"Any previous acts that had aroused feelings of natural guilt were to be avoided in the future. It does not carry with it any built-in connection with punishment as you think of it. Once more, it was meant as a preventive measure. Any violation against nature would bring about a feeling of guilt so that when a like-situation was encountered in the future, man would, in that moment of reflection, not repeat the same action...

Barrie NOW Adds: And my point was that Seth never said anything like, "The universe IS."  But instead he said things like the universe is safe, good, playful, etc.

Quote from: barrieBarrie Comments: I think you misunderstood me here. I meant that Seth COULD HAVE said that, but he didn't.

Thanks for the quotes, they help define the difference between judging (assessing) and being judgmental (critical). Just a product of our sometimes-ambiguous language. Not that we don't have enough words already...

One of the challenges of Seth concepts is seeing the Big Picture and accepting things while the rest of the community are horrified.

Quote from: BethAnneOne of the challenges of Seth concepts is seeing the Big Picture and accepting things while the rest of the community are horrified.

Barrie Responds: I believe I disagree. altho I"m not sure what you mean exactly. I think it is quite fitting with the compassion and empathy advocated by the Seth material to feel horrified, upset, saddened, concerned, caring, etc etc--regarding the suffering of others--even tho you may understand the mechanisms behind the co-creation and attraction of the event based on beliefs, expectations, etc. Just because we understand the background mechanism, that doesn't mean not to care or not to be emotionally upset when others get hurt. Seth advocates feeling all of our emotions--and not finding beliefs to repress them.

We are innately loving, compassionate & good. This includes being empathetic to the needs of others. This also means to feel motivated to help others--not because we are obligated to--but because if we are being truly ourselves we would voluntarily choose to help others because we would find joy and satisfaction in so doing.

EVERYONE, please read these following excerpts because they make my point and give my explanations. I won't give my own comments to them—unless someone wants me to. But please read these and see how we are not supposed to act as if the universe just IS and things happen to cause suffering is just to be taken in like experiencing watching a breeze move a leaf—at least not according to the Seth material. I have added CAPS to the quotes for emphasis only:

Seth (March 1973 ESP Class): "I am not condemning the feelings that give rise to religions. I am telling you that the organizations destroy the intuitions because again, each revelation is a reality. It is not the only reality, but organizations put up fences about the reality and say, 'You follow these rules. These are right.' And they are so convinced of the nature of their truth, that they will kill to withhold it, and that is WRONG! THE ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS, and the creatures have a greater sanity than this, and there is a wisdom and a religion in their flesh that is unknown to your philos¬ophies, and alien to them and mud is holier than philosophies that teach killing and death to uphold truth! A fly is holier than a Pope who caused death, or than a guru who whips you across your shoulder so that you can understand your guilt. AND, I SPEAK IN RIGHTEOUS ANGER ON BEHALF OF ALL CREATURES, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN A CREATURE MANY TIMES."


Seth (ESP Class, 12-15-70): I am referring, in the main however, to a deep feeling of oneness with other human beings. The ability to open yourselves up enough so that you can bear to understand the reality of another individual. The more terrified you are personally, the less you dare let down your guard, and you build up psychological walls to protect you. You shove aside the problems of others because they simply remind you of your own. Now, using psychological time and learning to be spontaneous, you can free these abilities within yourself. It will not be an intellectual matter of thinking that you are a part of All That Is. It will, instead, be an emotional awareness of that relationship.

Seth (ESP Class, 5-21-74): When you follow your own nature, you automatically and naturally feel for the needs of others.

Seth (ESP Class, 6-11-74): "If you allow your spontaneity its own freedom, then you can quite happily have whatever you want. But spontaneity will also lead you to thoughts of love for others. It will lead you to realize that you cannot plunder your planet, and it will lead you to realize that as long as one person is starving then YOU are starving in ways that YOU are too ignorant to recognize."

SETH (June 9, 1984, from 'Way Toward Health'): "The point is that all of the world's problems also represent great challenges. Young people in particular are needed to take up the tasks of deregulating and redistributing food sources, and of encouraging nations to join in such a creative venture. Those are worthy and stirring causes, as noble as any that graced any generation in the past. The world needs every hand and eye, and cries out for expression of love and caring."

Seth (Class, 8-18-70): "YOU ARE NOW DWELLING IN PHYSICAL REALITY. IT BEHOOVES YOU TO HELP OTHERS. When you take from others, you take from yourselves. When you give to others, you give to yourselves."

Barrie Comments: I looked up "behooves" and it means: To be necessary or proper for. Therefore, Seth is saying that "it is necessary or proper for you to help others." 

Seth (Session 550): "You cannot say, 'The poor are poor simply because they chose poverty and therefore there is no need for me to help them.' This attitude can easily draw poverty to you in the next experience."   

Seth (Session 64): "...WHEN IT IS POSSIBLE IT IS NOT ONLY WISE BUT ADVANTAGEOUS TO HELP ANY LIVING CREATURE, REGARDLESS OF ITS STATURE IN YOUR SCHEME OF THINGS..."

SETH (Session 697): "The race suffers when any of its members die of starvation or disease, even as a whole plant suffers if a group of its leaves are 'unhappy'. In the same way all members of the species are benefited by the happiness, health, and fulfillment of those individuals who compose it."

Be well & happy,
Barrie

What I meant was that living  Sethian  principles sets you apart somewhat to others.  At least for most of my life though I see changes coming.  A simple example, because of my CS background death is not a big deal for me or my family though I grieved greatly for those that passed.  There were people around me who were shocked at my acceptance.  I realize that it had more to do with their own beliefs of death. 

Quote from: BethAnne
What I meant was that living  Sethian  principles sets you apart somewhat to others.  At least for most of my life though I see changes coming.  A simple example, because of my CS background death is not a big deal for me or my family though I grieved greatly for those that passed.  There were people around me who were shocked at my acceptance.  I realize that it had more to do with their own beliefs of death. 

I understand...but I can't imagine anyone being horrified because someone either is more accepting of death or believes in reincarnation, etc. They may be surprised, but I don't think a great many would even be surprised--so many people believe those things. But you may have a different experience with people than I do.

I grew up in the Heart of the Midwest....in the middle of cornfields...in the 50s.   A LOT of things horrified my neighbors!  LOL

Quote from: BethAnneI grew up in the Heart of the Midwest....in the middle of cornfields...in the 50s.   A LOT of things horrified my neighbors!

Barrie Responds: I guess you were a little too corny as Kansas in August...or they were...

It was a pretty white bread, conservative, Luthern, Republican farming community...except us carpenter agnostics.  LOL
A friend who was a cop in Chicago was creeped out by all the corn.  Sometimes a child would wander into the fields needing a police helicopter to find them.   


And in the evenings we watched TV.  I would have been 4 

Quote from: BethAnneA friend who was a cop in Chicago was creeped out by all the corn.  Sometimes a child would wander into the fields needing a police helicopter to find them. 

Barrie Responds: Hence, the movie: Children of the Corn. By the way, sometimes that show was fascinating..."I've Got a Secret."