~Speaking of Seth~

 Hi folks  ;
             + welcome jbseth ,   Seth also said that the Christ was a much more advanced being than he is .   This is why the probabilities of the Christ, explained by Seth are more limited in a sense than they are for mere mortals like us. The Christ entity is aware of his mission so to spk, + so his probabilities are very specific in that He is here to give a message + this is exactly what He will do + then He naffs off back to the greater reality from whence He came .

            The Christ is not a reinc' of krishna , He was born once at the time of atlantis then in the so called holy land + His last incar' is now , + altho He is not enlightened at this particular time , He is alive now.   Seth said that He was not generally known for who He was + so it will be today + for the same reasons which are that he does not want to be murdered b4 He has given His message nor be hassled to insanity by the press + other religions , even christians .  He will delve into the mass uncons' of humanity + make Himself known to the world in that way + also teach at this level but He will only personally teach a few, who may well be fragmments of His own inner self just as were the disciples of old .         But He will not want to make His phys' whereabouts commomly known .   It is unecessary for Him as He can teach in dreams also , he is more than a dream art scientist etc so it will be known by many in many differnt lands, who he is + why he is here + they will know the divine presence of Christ without his having to actually go anywhere .

            When He has completed his task , He will not incar' again in an earthly form .

  Hi Chas  ;

            actually i don't think much of science's dark matter + dark energy , they are just pretending when they put forth this load of old cobblers , what they are really saying is that they don't know what 97% of the phys' univ' is made of .  Vacuum energy is about as close as they can come at this time to what both Seth + i call void .

           Yes daoist , not dewist , thanks .

            peace, paul

Quote from: Sena

Quote from: jbsethSome where he went to India as spoken of in some Indian traditions.

jbseth, welcome to the forum. We also need to consider the "probability" that Christ was a reincarnation of Krishna.

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/jesus/krishna.html

Hi Sena,

It's nice to meet you.

I do believe that all probabilities, "probably" exist somewhere; now how's that for a pun? 

I also agree that we should consider the probability that Christ was an incarnation of an entity or entities that also expressed themselves as Krishna.  Along with this, I also believe that we should consider the probability that Christ was an incarnation of an entity or entities that also expressed themselves, as Siddhartha (Buddha), Lao Tze, Confucius, Zoroaster, Elijah, Moses, or any number of other people.

However, I don't actually believe that some person born in a later time period, is the reincarnation of some other person who was born in an earlier time period.  Instead, I believe that both of these two persons are instead separate incarnations of one or more entities.

In Book 3 of the Early Sessions, Seth talks about the layers of the subconscious and what each layer consists of.  Then in another part of the same book or another Early Session book, Seth talks about which parts of the personality transfer over into the next personality in each new incarnation.  Here, he talks about how the ego of the previous incarnation becomes part of the subconscious in the following incarnation and in this following incarnation a new ego is developed.

Here's an example of what I'm referring to. In Seth's material, Seth talks about his various incarnations. In one incarnation, he tells us that at the time of Jesus, he was a man named Millenius who worked with bells. In another, more recent incarnation, he tells us that he was a man named Frank Watts.  What I'm saying here is that I don't believe that Millenius was a past personality of Frank Watts or that Frank Watts was the reincarnation of Millenius. Instead, I believe that these two personalities, are two separate incarnations, of, in this specific case, one entity, which was the Seth entity.

Quote from: voidypaulThe Christ is not a reinc' of krishna , He was born once at the time of atlantis then in the so called holy land + His last incar' is now , + altho He is not enlightened at this particular time , He is alive now.

Hi voidypaul,

Hey, thanks for the welcome.


I'm curious. What is your source for your statements that Christ is not the reinc' of Krishna and that His last incar' is now.

Quote from: voidypaulThis is why the probabilities of the Christ, explained by Seth are more limited in a sense than they are for mere mortals like us.

Paul, I am not a mere mortal and neither are you.

paul,
   thank you very much for your post.
let me say a couple things:
- I am 100% overjoyed to have you to talk to about Seth and everything
- I 100% respect what you think about Dark Matter, Dark Energy, and void stuff and everything
- my understanding regarding all subjects is very far from being an authority. I am an expert at nothing
- I super love to talk about Seth stuff. I don't really have anyone else to do it with. so I am so happy to be here
- the astrophysics which I understand a little bit of, says that evidence for Dark Matter is very solid. its some kind of particle, which we don't what it is. there is a ton of research going on to try to find out.
Dark Energy is mysterious, as far as I know. it may be causing the expansion of the Universe.
- I think its noteworthy that the current generally accepted theory for the origin of the Universe (the Big Bang theory), does not attempt to answer the question, of what there was previous to the Big Bang.
so, it only goes back 13.7 Billion years.
its a totally cool question, to ask what was before that.
well, I think Seth answers that kind of thing.
I love the Seth material, by the way.
- in my most humble opinion, there is room for more than one kind of thinking.
the Physical, skeptical, strict rigid scientific way.
and the intuitive way, which in my mind includes being open to all sources of information, including channeling and Seth.
the first way, would reject the Seth stuff. it would say that the evidence is not there to confirm that it is for real, and legitimate.
I very much believe that there is a place for the scientific approach.
I do believe it has its limits.
and the Seth material, I think is real and legitimate, even though I don't think it would ever be accepted by a hard nosed skeptical physical scientist.

Hi jbseth ,
               my source is Seth (can't remember where right now) , he stated in one of his books that Christ had the reinc's i spoke of , he does not state that Christ was not a reinc' of krishna but i'm more than sure he would have said so if that were the case . He definately stated that the entity has more or less finished with this particular sysytem + will go beyond it .
               If i find the quotes i will post them .

               I think in your statement ''Christ was an incarnation of an entity or entities that also expressed themselves, as Siddhartha (Buddha), Lao Tze, Confucius, Zoroaster, Elijah, Moses, or any number of other people.''         you do not allow for the multiplicity + diversity of entity's that there are in reality , altho in part , you do when you say ''entity or entities'' as there are a many + diverse entitys + one of them is the Christ entity . The entity from which krishna incar'd is a seperate one to the Christ entity . Do you see what i mean ?

              You also say    ''What I'm saying here is that I don't believe that Millenius was a past personality of Frank Watts or that Frank Watts was the reincarnation of Millenius. Instead, I believe that these two personalities, are two separate incarnations, of, in this specific case, one entity, which was the Seth entity.''

              I think there is a little confusion here which is actually quite common to sethies , ie , that the main entity is indeed the source of all its incarnations + that from the entitys lofty viewpoint indeed all are one , buttttt , from the viewpoint of any incar' from within the sys' in which he is born , there is indeed a past + future , otherwise it would defeat the whole idea of incar' , + humble souls such as ourselves would not have the opportunities for growth that we do.
              So in that context millenius is a past incar' of frank watts . Seth needed the F watts incar' to learn humility which is still a difficult quality for him to express as he has said so himself .     This is also the reason why the past inc's are kept in the subcons' , because they are past to the present personality at his stage of the evolution of his (ego) cons' + not that of the entity who once he has created the new ego does not interfere + is hands off.

              Most sethies like to wet their pants over the idea that all is one etc , etc + of course in the bigger picture this is true but from your level + mine this is simply an ideal + a reality that we aspire to or we would not have been born with an ego in the 1st place . Do you see what i'm saying?
We are not at the level of awareness of the entity , the entity spoon feeds us little bits + pieces of true reality but the true reality of the entity would be unendurable for most human cons' to behold .

              peace , paul



Hi Sena ,
               i'm a little surprised that you make this statement old bean in the context of the discussion as you make the same mistake as jbseth here in that yes of course the true inner self is a cosmic being but you + i are NOT , we have the ego + the entity does not  + it is simply a flowery addition to the ego that it believes that it has the powers of the entity as it does not + for very good reason , we are too much like children to be given such power .  Yes it is true that the seperations in the true reality are simply that but again i must state that we do not live in true reality but an absolutely miniture version of it + are spoon fed tiny bits of this true reality by the entity , like a mother succkles a child careful not to give too much but just enough for healthy growth .   
               This interweaves with the topic on telep' , in that it exists wether you are aware of it or not + indeed if you have given your permission or not + if you or i were to be made aware of the full telep' bombardment that goes on continually beneath our ego cons' then we would quickly go insane .
              Without the different levels of reality there would be no use for individuals at an egotistical level at all + there would be an unwholesome mushy oneness which Seth constantly rails against + you + i would not be the indiv' cons' that we are , learning at this level of the ego .  Seth just shows us our own true inheritance + it is sheer arrogance to think that that is what we are in a quantative sense tho in a qualitative sense all are equal , we have a long , long way to go to get anywhere near even the entity's level of awareness let alone any further .

              If someone were to shoot you in the leg you would most certainly appreciate that you are indeed (for now) a mere mortal , but if you could stop the bullet + suffer no harm then i would consider you as more than a mortal + perhaps on the level or close to that of the entity .
             Do you see what i mean ?

             there is an arrogance + foolishness to people who have newly learned of their true spiritual inherirance but the reality of their situation will (mainly) always remain the same in that they will live + die many times b4 they are not affected by phys' reality .
            When you say that you are not a mere mortal, this is what is known as Faith + not your actual reality as it is here + now . It is all well + good to have this faith in Seths teachings + in fact i encourage it , but faith + the true reality of one's situation is another thing entirely . It is what we aspire to + obvously aspirations are not yet what is for us . This is again why we have an ego + work out our realities within space + time , if we did not actually feel the love + pain + see it reflected in our phys' reality then we not be here + now as we are .  Do you see what i am getting at ?

            peace , paul

Hi chas ,  getting to your post soon me old fruit

Hi Chas ,
          + thank you for your posts too , i like your enthusiasm + evenhandedness . i am not so sweet + kind as you are my friend , i am more of a pointy leveller + equaliser in respect to Seths teachings .

          Scientists will continue to have their heads stuck up where the sun don't shine as long as they leave cons' out of their equations, this does not mean that i do not think them intellectual in their work as far as that intellectualism goes but they are hardly using their intelligence when they view reality from a merely phys' standpoint . The evidence for dark matter is a matter of their faulty instruments of course + they merely use dark matter + dark energy as proxies for the real thing which is quite unlike what they envisage it to be , monkeys up trees have more understanding in that sense.

          Psychology + nueroscience is still in its infancy + the mystics of old were + still are much more advanced in most ways than they are .

          I agree with you that everyone has their own way of thinking + respect them for it by en large outside of this forum (+ generally on it too) but if anyone comes here + spouts some nonsense about the Seth material then i will lay into them for it .  i try not to be unkind + abusive but i am definately the intolerant type + as i say i can tend to a pointyness + can be quite critical at times.
          Be that as it may i do make allowances for such topics as the void + nonbeing etc + am quite happy that even those who have read Seth fairly extensively have absolutely no idea what these are.

          So yes i can definitly learn from your open mindedness (+ others) + the joyfulness of a true spirituality , but most hard nosed (as you put it) scientists or religious fundamentalists always get me bent up + out of shape + i let them know how i feel about it in no uncertain terms .
          Nevertheless i do hope that you will find me to be a reasonably amiable if not forthright personality + that we will continue to learn from one another for the forseeable future .

          peace , paul

thank you for all that you wrote paul.
you're awesome brother.
in my view, its all about the love.
and the joy of being alive, and powerful and creative.
and kind and respectful.
and curious.
and learning about really cool stuff.
I think that you have an immense amount to offer.
and you are very generous to post really cool ideas and thoughts.
and you are really cool to do that.
there is so much misery in this world. there are so many miserable people.
to me, the keys to life are very simple.
- kindness
- respect
- forgiveness
- realize that I create my reality
- I am here learning how to use energy in a constructive, creative, positive way
- the power point is in the present
- life is good
- I am good
- people are good
- tap into the deep infinite wellspring of joy and love and creative energy force power,
from which I spring. indeed, from which all life springs
- so happy to talk to you paul. 
- thank you Deb for starting this super awesome excellent beautiful forum.

Quote from: chasman- thank you Deb for starting this super awesome excellent beautiful forum.

I am currently out of town, out of country, with Internet that is sometimes good, sometimes non-existent. I love this forum and so try to keep up with reading posts as much as possible, unfortunately responding less than I want to. You've just now given me a place to put a beautiful Seth quote that I've been holding onto, trying to find the best place to put it. Thank YOU chasman! Here is Seth at his poetic best:

"If you could but perceive the miraculous nature of your own realities in this particular moment that you call the present, how dazzled you would be and how little you would think in terms of purposes. Your reality is purpose and knows itself. What a rich, undefined miracle exists in each of your beings now! You look at paintings and call them great or a poem!

If you could feel the miraculous structure of your own being now and appreciate it, how you would wonder! The appreciation must come from yourselves. You think you are aware with techniques which you read. Listen, just to one cell within your own body. And, hear it sing with purpose and integrity and joy!

Feel a leaf. Feel the petal-like quality of your own thoughts. Be yourselves in the moment. And, again, what is the power of the present? I demonstrate it for you. But, it is your own. And, it is within you now, the energy that you perceive.
You each have the same energy. [Speaking loudly and forcefully now.] And, it sings within your being. You need not be shy of it. It is your own. You need not hide from it. You need not look to it in gurus or gods or Ruburts or Seths. It dwells within you!

In the terms of the poem, you are your own silver brothers!"

The Seth Audio Collection, ESP 19 1973.04.24

 Again i thank you for your kind + generous nature Chas , a great example  + a nice supersoft kick in the butt 4 me , thanks .

       I sometimes wonder why i would have had the void nonbeing exp' that unfortunately i cannot deny as a rather too influential portion of my existence . To be honest there have been times in my life that i wished it had not occured as it is so far divorced from the reality of human existence + even the Buddhists find my exp' to be a little too much for them to handle .        Its not that there are'nt some great expansions to be had in this 'journey' into + out of void/nonbeing , in fact it seems to be a prerequisite that one must journey out of the phys' universal systems of being + in doing so , one has the good fortune to percieve all of these systems at once so to spk , possibly from the vantage point of the entity to which one belongs .   But to transcend + go beyond these sys' in which one has multiple, perhaps infinite manifestations leads one into an area of being in which no thoughts or images can possibly exist .    Seth has described such exp' in his concept of the undiffrentiated field/level of being where only formlessnes exists + a vast inf' empty space is percieved .

        ES, VOl 7 ; 
              ; '' this is what happens when you adopt a psuedoform in projections,    when you tavel, so to spk , beyond a certain range of intensities , even  psuedoobjects must vanish . They exist in a cluster about, + connected to, your own system.   The lack of even psuedoobjects obviously means that you have gone beyond your cam' sys' .  The completely uncam' areas at the outer edges of the vairious sys' should remind you of the undiff' areas between vairious life cycles in the subcon' . This is no coincidence , as this general setup occurs in all realities .
            He goes on to say ; ''you r in touch with inf'y in such undiff' areas for it is only
camoflage that gives you your conception of time .The completely uncam' layer could be rather bewildering . you might automatically attempt to project images within it but they would not take ,so to spk , but would appear to app' + dissapear with great rapidity . This would be a silent area. Thoughts as a rule would not be percieved here , for the symbols that form them would not be understood.           If a certain intensity is reached here, a peak of intensity, then you could percieve the spacious pr' as it exists within your native sys' .   

          This psuedoform does not mean that one has any manifest form at all . One does not percieve a personal form of any kind but one is still very much aware + certainly v curious , even a little frightened of the area or level of cons' one is in .   I am pretty sure that one is in the electrical reality that Seth has described where time + space are percieved in terms of intensities + not in terms of forms or images .
          There are several more expansions + contractions of cons' + again my belief is that one takes on the qualities of a ''single'' CU or unit of cons' that Seth has described . One then relentlessly + sometimes incredibly , dynamically sloughs off so to spk even the activity of such a CU + ultimately comes to rest , so unutterably that all perception + action of being seems to completely cease  + one enters into nonbeing .      Wierd eh .

          This nonbeing i believe to be that state of suspension or blocking of all possibilities + probabilities of cons' that Seth has described , which i further believe to be the state in which ATI put all of His creations of cons' to save them from the unendurable agonising He went thru + voluntarily entered into so that He could somehow find within Himself the means to set free all of His own creations + dreams into actuality . 

          The ''return'' from the state of nonbeing initially seems to involve the creation of a void state (yet again) + leads to several futher contractions + expansions etc (all formless + 'outside' of time + space) until one comes into actualised reality + manifestation in a blinding flash of light + expansion which is far too ''busy + multidimensionally involved'' for me to poss' give any adequate explanation .      One then comes into the area or level of the universal system in which one has his phys' manifestation + 'passes thru' all of the times + places of his incarnations until he reaches the time + place where he set out from + actually 'smacks' into his body with such force as to release or become aware of the inf' multidimensional probabilities existent in one moment point of being . This then gradually slows down until one is aware of the single body form in which he has his present existence .           
           One might think that this is unusual or strange but i believe it to be the natural inherent condition of any + all cons's (as we are all made up from these cu's).    It can be + is a complete pain in the ass because it completely dunbfounds + befuddles the intellect + even with Seths descriptions + Buddhist jhana/Nirvana or Hindu Parabrahman/pralaya i still cannot find a rational way to share such an experience + in some ways it has plagued my life + left me outside of the humanity with whom i share this current existence .

           I hope in some way that in my feeble descriptions i can thank you + all here for their patience + kindness for the cranky old man i have become .  Hopefully one day i will be able to at least return to the dual dreaming wakeing cons' that i once exp'd + from there , if i have the strength to reach it , i can return once more into the formless states i have never been able to forget .     
               cheers Chas + peace , paul

                also , please forgive me when i rail against a certain egotism, which i too have as a great failing in my own nature but yes i also agree that it is true that both you + i + all of us are beautiful + great  + indespensible to the working of the universe . When we ultimately break down the barriers to the subcons' + come into that new state of cons' Seth has alluded to, then we will truly know ourselves to be the wonderous + multidimensional beings we but dimly percieve as yet .(oh no , there i go again)

Deb,
    thank you soooooo much.
I loved the quote.
you are so awesome and amazing.
thank you for your excellent post.
thank you so much again for starting this forum.
you are so great and wonderful!!!
I am very pro Seth stuff.
in my humble opinion, you starting this forum is an act of super goodness.
as I said to paul, I really have no one else to talk to about this stuff.
I have mentioned it to some people.
there's usually no interest. like none.
some people are not happy about it. they think Seth is the devil, or a bad spirit.
these are people who are very religious.
well, that makes me more careful about who I tell Seth about.
people are brainwashed. (some people.) they are told what to believe when they are young (for example).
and they pretty much stick with that.
I believe there's really nothing to fear. maybe, but fear itself. or maybe not even that.
if you start from a standpoint, that you are powerful, and created out of love and joy, and that you create your own reality with your thoughts beliefs, and then emotions, and that the power point is in the present..........then whats to fear?
nothing.
love and value yourself.
be aware of the magic and beauty that exists within you. now.
be aware of how powerful and capable and creative and energetic you are. now.
love and value you. now.
and love and value others too.
but (I'm talking to myself here), my love and value of me, is dependent on no other person.
I have found the magic and beauty in me.
I am good enough for me.
my happiness, depends on 1 person. me.
hey have a beautiful magical joyful day.
paul, I have a busy day ahead.
I will read your post when I can give it the time it deserves.
as for now, I'll just say, thank you soooooooo much for it. you are awesome and amazing. and thank you Deb for telling me good things about paul. I am so happy to hear them.

wow.
ok, thank you paul.
that was phenomenal.
mere words are not even close to being adequate to express my gratitude to you.
thank you for all the nice things you said about me.
if you feel like it, would you please tell me when you had the void experience? and how old were you then?
I am fascinated by all that you wrote.
I just carefully read it all for the second time.
I just feel like mentioning by the way, that since I read NOPR twice a couple years ago (re-read, as I had read it when I was young, perhaps more than once), I have found magic inside of me.
I hope I don't sound like I'm bragging.
not a fan of bragging.
that said, I believe that I have tapped into creative energies and powers from within myself that make me extremely happy.  am an amateur musician. and I am ecstatic with my ability. (I could not always say that. in fact, I used to say "ladies and gentlemen,  suffered for my music. and now.........its your turn............before performing for others............and it was an accurate statement........hahahahhahahhaha..........please try the veal......pah dum chhhhhh)
also, I am thrilled with what I have learned about astrophysics and relativity theories.
please understand that all of the above is relative. I am good at music stuff, for me. that is to say, not comparing myself to anyone else. I am just able to make music in ways that I find highly beautiful, fun and entertaining and pleasing and magical.
as for astrophysics,  don't know much. but I know a little. and I keep learning more. and I super love it.
enough for now.
peace paul.   

Hi Sena, voidypaul, and others

Recently, Sena, voidypaul and I have been having a mini discussion about reincarnation regarding Christ and Krishna.

Today I was walking through a Walmart looking for some Christmas light hooks and while there, I thought I'd checkout their magazine and book section. In the magazine section, I discovered a magazine titled, "Spirituality and Health". I've never see this magazine before and so I thought I'd take a quick look to see what types of articles it contained.

While checking out this magazine, I found that on one of the pages, there was a question and answer section titled something like, "Ask the Rabbi". Furthermore, the first question in this section was, "Can God incarnate as both Christ and Krishna?" In response to this question, the Rabbi, then proceeds to give his answer.

Talk about synchronicity.

Out of curiosity, I looked for and found this magazine on the internet today at the following website.

http://spiritualityhealth.com/

If you go to this website, and page down, you'll find the section titled, Rabbi Rami:  Can God incarnate as both Christ and Krishna?

Quote from: jbsethTalk about synchronicity.

jbseth, thanks for this link.

To make a joke ... to this title of this thread ...

The return of Christ personality:

Trump won

Couldn't stop myself ...

Well, funny you should say that. Just yesterday someone I know, when they heard Trump had won, posted on Facebook "God is on the throne!!! I am thankful for the outcome of the election yesterday." She didn't mean Trump was God, but maybe that God was in control or that christian values were going to be restored to this country. I really need to ask what she meant.

This election was the most bizarre one I've ever seen and the reaction of some of the public is unbelievable. I think we need to continue to explore this topic--Trump is not 'the one" (reference to The Matrix).  BTW, I love Pat Condell (British) for his fearlessness and clarity of thought. While I'd considered not voting at all in this election, Pat is the one who made me rethink that (video below--if anyone here needs a written transcript let me know, I'd be happy to provide one). Maybe we can all learn a lesson from this election and next time around the parties will come up with some higher caliber candidates. The problem is, I don't think anyone in their right mind really wants the job.

This just popped into my head, dug out of the dusty, cob-web covered memories of another lifetime: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows."



PS
I've been out of town/country all week and am SO far behind in posting. I have so much to say, so little time. The definition of maturity is still in my mind and was a topic of discussion over more than one dinner. I get back home this weekend.

It's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

I opened a thread about the symbol of Trump election in Comic and Entertaiment section ... 

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=835.new#new

Hi All,

In chapter 20 of the book, "The God of Jane", Jane Roberts includes the latter part of Session 876, August 27, 1979, 9:12 PM Monday. In this session, Seth provides, I think, some of his most significant comments about Jesus, the 3 Christs and the birth of Christianity. In this session, he also says the following.


"Christianity was, then, a rather rich blend of beliefs that were gradually weeded out. You had many probable roads that Christianity could have followed. Each of them represented various probable developments in culture and philosophy; and each of those developments, of course, would have given you a different present. Each of those alternatives has happened also."


Borrowing then from Seth's statement above, regarding this topic of the Return of Christ personality, I tend to believe that there will be many probable roads that this event will follow and each of them will provide a different probable future. Furthermore, I also tend to believe that each one of these probable futures will also occur.

Quote from: Deb

This just popped into my head, dug out of the dusty, cob-web covered memories of another lifetime: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows."

The guy above is entrenched in the "earthly" paradiagm old energy / fear / doubt...It doesn't take  any law of universe into account.He is stuck like many blaming the goverments before .This is a limited perception imo.Seems the earthly paradigm still resonates with parts of you.

THis is a youtube created recently about US election and the 9th Pleiadian Conscioness talking.. With Trump or no Trump you will have to cleanup in yourself after all.

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=835.new#new

Quote from: myststarsIt's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

Catching up after my trip!

Not so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn't want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I'd say "responsible." People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make "good*" decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Interesting observation from college for you, I've never in my life wanted to 'mother' men. Only my son, but then I am his mother. Now that he's an adult I don't want to mother him. But I do worry at times. He's still maturing, the decision-making doesn't always work out. But he has to learn from his mistakes. We all do.

*Examples of NOT good decisions: Darwin Awards. "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..."

Quote from: Deb

Quote from: myststarsIt's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

Catching up after my trip!

Not so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn't want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I'd say "responsible." People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make "good*" decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Interesting observation from college for you, I've never in my life wanted to 'mother' men. Only my son, but then I am his mother. Now that he's an adult I don't want to mother him. But I do worry at times. He's still maturing, the decision-making doesn't always work out. But he has to learn from his mistakes. We all do.

*Examples of NOT good decisions: Darwin Awards. "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..."

Oh ... you put way too much in the "maturity" basket.Many people really need a big course of self-help to do all that you have put in that basket and it may take years...Many man don't understand that at emotional level..You end up dissapointed as a woman.No wonder i haven't found too many happy womans in my life..Remember that you still live in a male dysfunctional society so maturity and responsability is really distorted...
After reading various channeling material on freedom i see that people when want freedom actually are not prepared for ... freedom.
Freedom comes with responsability that everything around you IS your creation...Freedom comes with responsability that you know if you have miserable thoughts you must take care of your inner courtyard and not blame the others...
The responsabiliy is sold as a punishement.Example:

"You are responsable that my cat is sick.." This is a very dysfunctional belief.


Recently i experience the I AM that is told in books... 90% of my mind is in the I AM state now..How i know is that i feel so in the ... Zero Point...In that everything just is so static, so melded with enviroment, so relaxed, so quiet, you feel sucked beyond...Is very very nice state to BE...Is just BE...I tackled most parts of me like voices, aspects etc and after they ceased an emptiness and silence emerged...Is stable, is all day there...The NEEDS and WANTS that were before disappeared....

Quote from: DebNot so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn't want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I'd say "responsible." People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make "good*" decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Nice Definition Deb.

Quote from: Deb

Quote from: myststarsIt's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

Catching up after my trip!

Not so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn't want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I'd say "responsible." People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make "good*" decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Interesting observation from college for you, I've never in my life wanted to 'mother' men. Only my son, but then I am his mother. Now that he's an adult I don't want to mother him. But I do worry at times. He's still maturing, the decision-making doesn't always work out. But he has to learn from his mistakes. We all do.

*Examples of NOT good decisions: Darwin Awards. "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..."

For me the achievement of any kind of maturity is specific to inidivudal topic and charactertistics, particulalry the opportunity to model the behavior of those we could reasonably say are "mature" within social norms.

As Joseph Chilton Pearce says of the newborn "If we have no model, we have no development" Nothing to imprint from.

Also, I can mature at say I don't know Ju-Jitsu or writing because I have invested many hours of effort in those fields of intelligence, developing my abilities, however the thing i have not invested time in, or have not a had a socially acceptable model for, I tend to be immature in, likewise for all kinds of personal attributes. The son of an angry bitter man models anger, while the son of a happy man models happiness, and responsibility etc.


Generations who face no great crisis, and abundant material wealth are often not challenged to exercise our ability to "mature" at various things, in the way say people who are at war are forced to.
So the luxury of abundance means the challenge is to actively seek out situation that challenge us, because without resistance, there is no growth, without models of behavior and abilities  in our everyday world, experienced in person there is no opportunity to learn.
The wisdom for me lies in finding good models of behavior, and in finer discrimination, finer distinctions in who to trust and what to believe, what to learn etc.

What is useful (utilitarian), and what is painful, or unknown seems to govern much of our daily habits.

Hi jbseth ,
            an interesting addition to the debate but i think both the rabbi + the questioner are both  under a severe misconception ,   God does NOT incarnate ,     God is a creator , He is within all of reality on every level .  Only the created beings go thru the process of incarnation for obvious reasons which do not apply to ATI . 

            The idea that God is both Krsna + Christ is a rather obvious statement to make + cannot be denied   ,
            but that in no way (in my mind) implies that Christ is an inc' of Krsna or vice-versa .

            I believe that the Christ entity is seperate to the Krsna entity + have as yet to see any evidence otherwise.        And what would the point be in one coming from the same entity as the other
as if these beings achieved a state of godhood why would either one of them want to be the other, + their godhood would surely lead them into different avenues of existence etc as seperate entitys in themselves , surely it would be much more interesting to both that they remain somewhat 'seperate' .

            I understand that Seth has said that the Christ entity 'split' into 3 different personalities or counterparts tho' he does not say as such about the present inc' which he says will be a composite of the 3 .        Also it seems that in this case the Christ will be known for who He is + not as some other deity like Krsna , so it must follow that he is not Krsna nor any other enlightened being but Himself only .    So on at least 2 occasions Christ has more or less been known for who he is (tho i am not sure about the atlantean inc', but to Seth he was Christ) + no one else .

           Oh yes , the one thing that Seth did recognise about the Hindu's + extolled the virtue of for overall good health is ,,,,,        OM    or   AUM  , whichever turns you on i suppose .

            I agree with your futher post that many prob's will come into actualisation (in seperate realities) because of the inner strength + vitality of the Christ + of the need of the people + just simply because of the true nature of reality .

             peace , paul

Hi voidypaul,

In many of the comments you make, I find that generally I do not come to the same conclusions that you do. However, this is not really an issue for me, as I know lots of people don't see things the way I do.

Here's the thing, Seth talks extensively about probable realities.  Given what Seth's says about probable realities, do you believe that there exists some probable reality where Christ was the reincarnation of Krishna?

If Krisna lived in the time of Atlantis, then he was the incarnation of Christ, by Seth.

Krishna was an ET according to a David Wilcock show.How is depicted in drawings with color of the skin, different body than human and the size.For now being an ET makes more sense than what is sold in the mainstream for me.He came to earth to teach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

The pictures are easily telling that Blue skin is not Human origin imo.Also many ET that came as teachers didn't want to be worshipped..They just showed by example what can be achieved..The Sirians made this mistake many times.They wanted to do so much good to humans that they end up blinding themselves and realized the mistake much much later..

Christ had a powerfull Arcturian energy.In Orion civilization a sort of similar Christ (A very high vibration Arcturian) incarnated on the planet and because the population was like a "one mind" (like Asians) the polarization of the population could be turned around from extreme negative to positive.Orion civilization couldn't get out from their drama for Eons...Dune first volume is a very reflecting of Orion civilization.The author tapped in that energy.

Seth spoke of three great civilizations, but not talk about how their members seemed ...
Bhagavadgita describes a bluish color of Krsna, but rather as the color of a thundercloud - which is gray. The most famous ET are the Greys ..

Quote from: sethspeaks
Seth spoke of three great civilizations, but not talk about how their members seemed ...
Bhagavadgita describes a bluish color of Krsna, but rather as the color of a thundercloud - which is gray. The most famous ET are the Greys ..

No offense, but the Gita uses mythic-literal language.
It's not saying there were actually blue people.
However, if people encountered actual blue people, it would most likely have been in their dreams.

jbseth

Hi voidypaul,

In many of the comments you make, I find that generally I do not come to the same conclusions that you do. However, this is not really an issue for me, as I know lots of people don't see things the way I do.

Here's the thing, Seth talks extensively about probable realities.  Given what Seth's says about probable realities, do you believe that there exists some probable reality where Christ was the reincarnation of Krishna?



Hi jbseth ,
             No i don't believe that there is a prob' where Christ was the incar' of Krsna . Seth does state that all prob' or poss' of cons' are somewhere realised but i believe he was spkg in terms of the prob' + poss' inherent in each indiv' being + not that in some reality 2 seperate entitys are somehow mashed up into one or that one entity would for some inexplicable reason give up his uniqeness to take on the prob' inherent in another entity .

             Why would indiv' beings have been created if one was to take on the mantle of another , its like saying that i would reinc' as you or you as me , it just does'nt make sense + would seem to defeat the whole object of indivduality itself .
             Christ is a unique indiv' entity as is Krsna , as you are , as we all are , so why would any one of us choose to incar' as the other , + anyway this is an impossibility you cannot be me anymore than Christ can be Krsna. 
            Seth spoke quite a lot about Christ , even that He is more advanced than Seth himself + if Christ had been a rein' of Krsna i have no doubt that he would have said so .

             I hope this clears up my beliefs on the inviolate individual being , be that of an entity or human or ant etc .

             Also , seth has said that we all create our own realties which means that you + i + all other beings do so 'within' our own time/space continuum ie Seths example of the 4 glasses created by the 4 people who seem to see the same glass  + that it is only the inherent telepathy that makes us think that we view the same glass . No one's reality is the same as any others, on any level of reality , not Christ's or Krsna's nor yours or mine . We are all seperate beings , in a shared reality . Do you understand this Seth concept ?

             As for our differences of opinion , they are what they are precisely because you + i are both indiv' beings + always will be , tho perhaps we may come closer to some sort of an understanding as to the reality of the inviolate + indestructible uniqeness of all indiv' beings  , who knows maybe cows will lay eggs one day , as omlettes if we're lucky .

             peace , paul

 
sethspeaks,

If Krisna lived in the time of Atlantis, then he was the incarnation of Christ, by Seth.

         
Hi sethspeaks,
                why do you think this + where did you get it from ?  i certainly do not think it is a Seth quote + here we have a new twist on the topic , if Christ were the incar' of Krsna .
               

              peace , paul


myststars

Krishna was an ET according to a David Wilcock show.How is depicted in drawings with color of the skin, different body than human and the size.For now being an ET makes more sense than what is sold in the mainstream for me.He came to earth to teach.

Hi myststrs,
               David Wilcock has his take on reality but as can be seen with many of his ideas + predictions , they are way off the mark but i do like him , he tries hard to help + should be commended as such but some of his ideas should be taken with a pinch of salt , rather quaint in my view . 



Hi Batfan007 ,
                 i agree with you , so many people take these myths far too seriously. Like this debate i'm having about Christ being an incar' of Krsna , i don't even know where this myth came from but it is just another one of those la di da somewhat compelling ideas folks get from time to time  + not really relevant to the return of the Christ personality at all as far as i am concerned , + absolutely not Sethian .   More in the field of , if we are all indiv's + yet we are all one + what does that mean exactly ? Perhaps a new topic for conversation as it seems to me to need some clarification by the way this present topic has been going .

                Also somewhat like the mistaken notion that the  Rama whatshisname chappie put forward that God or ATI incar' as Christ or Krsna ,   absolute poppycock , ATI does not incarnate , He is the creator + source of all beings ,  far too huuuuuge for any one incar' to handle .

                 peace , paul

Quote from: voidypaul


myststars

Krishna was an ET according to a David Wilcock show.How is depicted in drawings with color of the skin, different body than human and the size.For now being an ET makes more sense than what is sold in the mainstream for me.He came to earth to teach.

Hi myststrs,
               David Wilcock has his take on reality but as can be seen with many of his ideas + predictions , they are way off the mark but i do like him , he tries hard to help + should be commended as such but some of his ideas should be taken with a pinch of salt , rather quaint in my view . 

Is not only David wilcock saying that.Krishna lived in a period when ET lived and land on earth.Other channeling material that i read is not directly point Krishna but is pointing ET lived and trained humans on earth.

Hi myststars ,
               i totaly agree that ET's have been to earth + have either helped or hindered humanities progress at these times . Many of them still come here to oversee the progress we make so i have no problem with your post in this respect .
               My main contention is that most of the religious leaders such as Christ , Buddha + others are manifestations of the entity's to which they belong + who have the best of intentions of humanity at heart wether or not they have succeded as such or whose messages have been distorted by the religious heirarchys  who came after them . These personalities were definately not ET's in my view but as you say many folks believe that they are , c'est la vie as they say , every one to their own .
              In any case , Christ will return + help to put all of these things in their proper perpective + will begin a new authentic religious drama which as Seth says will be completed by 2075 , but He is alive now so hopefully many of us will become a part of this great expansion of cons' .

              peace , paul

I thought this:
"In your terms, and in your terms only, the coming of Christ was the Second Coming. (Pause). In those  terms only, he appeared at the timebof Atlantis, but the records were destroyed and forgotten except in the memory of a few who survived.
Now, again in those terms, he is an entity who appears time and time again within your physical system, but he has been recognized on only two ocassion. Once in Atlantis, and once in the Christ story as it has come down to you in all of its distortions. He appears and reappears therefore, sometimes making himself known and sometimes not. He was not one personality, as I have told you, but a highly developed entity, sometimes appearing as a fragment of himself."
ss.558

Hi sethspeaks,
               so in Seths terms , this will be the 3rd recognised coming of Christ .
 
               I still don't quite see the connection between Christ being an incar' of Krsna .Do you think that Krsna was born in the time of Atlantis ? But Krsna was incar' on the Asian continent which maybe would be different from the Atlantis civilisation . I know Seth has said that Atlantis was more a collection of civilisations rather than an island race so maybe it could be one of these , tho i also believe there could have been a central hub of these civilisations that did exist somewhere in the Atlantic region + which was innundated in the great flood .

               I'm not sure if the Christ would reveal himself to the world at large as to his phys' manifestation
+ place or location on earth but i am sure that those close to Him will know who He is .

               I believe that He will use the 'mass uncons' as a method to make Himself known + also the dream reality to make His teachings known as with the crucifiction drama (altho He was not crucified Himself) but as Seth has said this crucifixion drama could be likened to the emergence of a new planet in our system + was a gift from the dreaming reality to ours . So quite a massive all consuming event + altho it may be abhorrent to those in our time it had a massive impact on civilisation at that time , +  generally spkg , for the good of all . So perhaps there are some great psychic surprises to come with the new Christ .

              Without a doubt the new Christ religious drama is now unfolding within all of our dreaming realities  individually/personaly , en masse + even thoughout the ages of incarnations in which Christ was present wether He was known or unknown . I believe 'our' Christ will be a sort of central hub or matrix in which many of His incarnations will come to 'fruition' because of who + what He is (or will be) now  , in our time .
 
              Some lucid dreamers may be able to tune into His emerging + some natural psychics/mystics can sense + feel His prescence in the world today .  As Seth has said , as this personality becomes aware of who + what He is , so will the world at large (or those who are sensitive to these frequencies) also become aware of Him + of who + what they truly are .  Seth also said there will be no great fanfare or judgement day as some believe but there will be a gradual (+ occasional massive psychic event) awakening + 'turning-on' of the uncon' potentials that we have chosen to ignore in our growth of the ego structure , until it was strong + sure enough of itself to be able to handle the multidim' inner info' + to be able to use it . The ego will expand + the old egotism of one self one world will gradually dissolve .

            It does'nt really matter if one believes that Krsna was Christ or the other way around , 'our' Christ's expansion will be felt worldwide + will be 'coloured' accordingly by the culture in which He manifests or in whose dreams or mass uncons' He 'apppears' .     Anyway   it is the entity , from whom all gods + men manifest whom Christ will teach each indiv' to make contact with , + so some men/women will go beyond the distinctions of gods + men +  into the inf' non-phys' realms where all worlds + gods + beings are dreamt into simult' existence .

           These realities exist within us now + it is only the ego that is wary of such inner expansions but we will overcome these artificial barriers with the help of the Christ , tho it is prudent for each one of us to encourage such inner expansions/contractions in ourselves so we may be more receptive to the time when Christ will trigger the release of these inner psychic potentials + realities .
           
           I prepare with my own meditations etc so i might be able to go into a semi isolation for 3 months or so + hopefully regain a dual wakeing/dreaming consciousness i once experienced .
           I am lucky that altho i am somewhat disabled , in our compassionate + generous English society , i am not obliged to have to go to work , so nowerdays i have the time on hand to overcome my difficulties + in a year or two , go into this semi islolation + hopefully reach the dual cons' + from there maybe i can re-enter  the void states .
           We all have our dreams , mine are just a good bit wierder than most , being of void + non-being .
           Non-being is beyond even the most peaceful + tranquil state of cons' .
           No thoughts or feelings or images or perceptions nor any mental reflection of any kind whatsoever .
           The end of stress as Buddha put it .
           Non-being but not non-existence , a 'temporary' suspension .
             
          the void states are transition processes or intensites that are entirely 'outside' of + beyond the formed realities/systems in which we dwell . In Seths terms my void states correlate with his undifferentiated area/level of consciousness ie, the unformed , unmanifest aspect of the self , the entity + Seth2 exist more intensely at this level Many of the void states are therefore quite dynamic + again , correlate with Seth's vitality + his electrical reality .

          It is only non-being that is the cessation/suspension of all activity .

          We were all unmanifest beings
          Eons before we became manifest

          Once we were not
          Until a God dreamed us into reality + existence

          Now we are eternal + free
          Praise be
          ATI

          Surely this transcendent/immanent being is worthy of the highest praise + love
          It is one reason for the existence of religion in me
           

         Do you feel or possess an inner (religious) sense of your own indiv' being + divine origin in some way ? 
   
         I would say it is inherent + indelible in all beings , regardless of present day distortions .
         In the simplest sense , i would say that God is religion as there could certainly not be religion without God
         So Christ will elucidate not only His new religion but what religion IS .
          I suppose .

            peace , paul
         

Hi Paul,
There is so much that I wanted to write. For me it is not important whether the Christ entity called Krishna or otherwise, if he had blue skin or not ... important is that he is a symbol that can manipulate with the matter, that the disease is not what limits us. Mahabharata describes an advanced civilization, which used Vimana flying machines, Krishna possessed an essentially unlimited power, in fight the strong personality able to cure overnight from injuries only his inner strength. It may be the civilization Seth designated as Atlantis or not ...
And equally, Christ is a symbol that can freely manipulate matter and similarly, any disease can be cured immediately. However, I must remind that he was not Jesus Christ, but Jesus-Paul-John Christ. From Seth's material I derived, for example, that a miracle healing comes from Paul. Paul has been involved in other situations - like the temptation in the wilderness was Paul's dream in which he saw Christ - Seth told how Paul felt in the dream Jesus as the devil - it was not a story about temptation, but how it is possible have unlimited power just if we realize it. The highlight of this story was the crucifixion - but it was Simon who ended up on the cross. And there was more and more distortions.
Christ, who has now come not Jesus but Paul - Paul Christ, that Paul, who was the murderer of Christians. The Bible says that Christ will return, but Paul was who ensured that it appeared in the Bible, and now must fulfill his promise. He must come to say that everything is possible, because he did not it - he said that everything is possible if you believe in Christ, but he had to say - everything is possible if we believe in ourselves - everyone creates own reality.
He would pick up values that are described in the session 703 and 704.

What Seth did NOT say about the Christ who will return before 2075:

(1) He did not say that Christ is All That Is.

(2) He did not say that Christ is a god of any description, Almighty or less than Almighty.

(3) He did not say that Christ is "good" or "bad".

(4) He did not advise us to become "followers" of the Christ who returns.

Quote from: sethspeaksHe would pick up values that are described in the session 703 and 704.

sethspeaks, it is interesting that you mention these two sessions with reference to the Christ. I found them in The Unknown Reality, Vol. 1:
http://tinyurl.com/hg4gfmd
Do you mean that the Christ who returns will be a great healer, healing in both mind and body?

Hi Sena
I think that the historical Christ was like, believe in me and I will heal you. By contrast, the new Christ should say, believe yourselves and remove those beliefs that promote disease and you will be healed.

Seth for example of fatal diseases session JUNE 11,1984 4:08 P.M. MONDAY  TWTH:
"There are those who come down with one serious disease — say heart trouble — are cured through a heart transplant operation or other medical procedure, only to fall prey to another seemingly unrelated disease, such as cancer. It would relieve the minds of families and friends, however, if they understood that the individual involved did not "fall prey" to the disease, and that he or she was not a victim in usual terms.
This does not mean that anyone consciously decides to get such-and-such a disease, but it does mean that some people instinctively realize that their own individual development and fulfillment does now demand another new framework of existence.
Much loneliness results when people who know they are going to die feel unable to communicate with loved ones for fear of hurting their feelings. Still, other kinds of individuals will live long productive lives even while their physical mobility or health is most severely impaired. They will still feel that they had work to do, or that they were needed — but the main thrusts of their beings still reside in the physical universe.
Each person's purposes are so unique and individualistic that it is quite improper to try to make any judgments in such matters. There is also the overall picture, for each family member plays a certain part in the reality of every other member.
A man might die very shortly after his wife's death, for example. Regardless of the circumstances, no one should judge such cases, for regardless of the way such a man might die, it would be because the thrust and intent and purpose of Ms life was no longer in physical reality."

Quote from: sethspeaks
Hi Sena
I think that the historical Christ was like, believe in me and I will heal you. By contrast, the new Christ should say, believe yourselves and remove those beliefs that promote disease and you will be healed.

Seth for example of fatal diseases session JUNE 11,1984 4:08 P.M. MONDAY  TWTH:
"There are those who come down with one serious disease — say heart trouble — are cured through a heart transplant operation or other medical procedure, only to fall prey to another seemingly unrelated disease, such as cancer. It would relieve the minds of families and friends, however, if they understood that the individual involved did not "fall prey" to the disease, and that he or she was not a victim in usual terms.
This does not mean that anyone consciously decides to get such-and-such a disease, but it does mean that some people instinctively realize that their own individual development and fulfillment does now demand another new framework of existence.
Much loneliness results when people who know they are going to die feel unable to communicate with loved ones for fear of hurting their feelings. Still, other kinds of individuals will live long productive lives even while their physical mobility or health is most severely impaired. They will still feel that they had work to do, or that they were needed — but the main thrusts of their beings still reside in the physical universe.
Each person's purposes are so unique and individualistic that it is quite improper to try to make any judgments in such matters. There is also the overall picture, for each family member plays a certain part in the reality of every other member.
A man might die very shortly after his wife's death, for example. Regardless of the circumstances, no one should judge such cases, for regardless of the way such a man might die, it would be because the thrust and intent and purpose of Ms life was no longer in physical reality."

For a public example of that last point, Carrie Fisher (Star Wars) died this week, and her mother (Debbie Reynolds) in the same week.

The next day after.
I see neither accident nor tragedy in that.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/28/entertainment/debbie-reynolds-hospitalized/

Quote from: Batfan007The next day after.
I see neither accident nor tragedy in that.

There have been some very interesting parallels presented in the news about these most recent celebrity deaths.

I have to add, that I was named after Debbie Reynolds, by my mother.

If I suddenly disappear, don't worry. The domain name and hosting for SoS are paid for in advance for at least a couple of years. Carry on my wayward sons.

For some reason I have a craving to watch Supernatural after reading your post Deb.

Quote from: sethspeaks
I thought this:
"In your terms, and in your terms only, the coming of Christ was the Second Coming. (Pause). In those  terms only, he appeared at the timebof Atlantis, but the records were destroyed and forgotten except in the memory of a few who survived.
Now, again in those terms, he is an entity who appears time and time again within your physical system, but he has been recognized on only two ocassion. Once in Atlantis, and once in the Christ story as it has come down to you in all of its distortions. He appears and reappears therefore, sometimes making himself known and sometimes not. He was not one personality, as I have told you, but a highly developed entity, sometimes appearing as a fragment of himself."
ss.558

Did Seth mention along with any of this material the cultural "copy and paste" of the previous Egyptian stories into the Christ stories (along with other cultural stories and myths that preceded Christ that were incorporated into the popular versions of events).
I'll have to read some of this again. Been a few years. Can you tell me please SETHSPEAKS which book session 558 is from?

Some examples in these books (have not read yet)

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931882312?ie=UTF8&tag=jamifrat-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1931882312


The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Christianity Before Christ
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1605200301?ie=UTF8&tag=jamifrat-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1605200301

I had a feeling recently, related to the return of the Christ personality theories we all have been tossing around. But my feeling didn't involve a person raising consciousness, it involved the Internet. I sure hope I can explain myself. And Len, you sort of touched on it here:

Quote from: LenKopOur beliefs regarding religion need close inspection too. The 'new religion' might well be no more organised than this forum. But many will read that it will 'not be Christian in your terms' and immediately an organised congregation will be imagined.

I remember when the Internet started getting popular and in my mind I likened it to a 'material collective consciousness.' Material meaning it is something which we can all observe and participate in on a conscious level.

I've seen some really bad things come from the Internet. But even that supports my theory. What I'm getting at is the bad things coming from the internet have a silver lining in that people are becoming more aware and better informed about what's going on. And have the opportunity to right the wrongs because of that new knowledge. And the uglier the exposed wrongs are, the faster the changes will come about because of the emotional impact.

The Internet is beginning to create a transparency in the world. Hackers are leaking information that has up to now been too easily hidden from the public. The exposure of dishonesty, cheating, underhandedness, corruption in business (Monsanto and the likes), medicine, big pharma, big farma, finance, government, human rights, animal rights, ecology, food production, manufacturing. I could go on, but you get the idea. There are less chances for secrets now and a new awareness in the general public about what's going on behind the scenes. Getting things out in the open causes a natural/organic righting of the wrongs that have been customarily hidden and therefore able to continue. The silent majority (meek?) speaks through their actions, not words, and can make changes in society just by changing their own behaviors, spending habits, loyalties, etc. in reaction to these revelations.

The Internet is becoming somewhat omniscient, and in the process so are we. Hopefully this will result in a shift, for the better, in morality. It sounds like a Big Brother thing, but in this case we all would be BB. Less secrets. Forcing people, businesses, governments be accountable for their actions. In the process, becoming more respectful of society/nature/the planet—and more moral as a result.

I'm not saying the return of the Christ personality is the Internet, but I think it could play a role.

OK, feel free to tell me why you think I'm a complete nutter. 

Quote from: Deb
I had a feeling recently, related to the return of the Christ personality theories we all have been tossing around. But my feeling didn't involve a person raising consciousness, it involved the Internet. I sure hope I can explain myself. And Len, you sort of touched on it here:

Quote from: LenKopOur beliefs regarding religion need close inspection too. The 'new religion' might well be no more organised than this forum. But many will read that it will 'not be Christian in your terms' and immediately an organised congregation will be imagined.

I remember when the Internet started getting popular and in my mind I likened it to a 'material collective consciousness.' Material meaning it is something which we can all observe and participate in on a conscious level.

I've seen some really bad things come from the Internet. But even that supports my theory. What I'm getting at is the bad things coming from the internet have a silver lining in that people are becoming more aware and better informed about what's going on. And have the opportunity to right the wrongs because of that new knowledge. And the uglier the exposed wrongs are, the faster the changes will come about because of the emotional impact.

The Internet is beginning to create a transparency in the world. Hackers are leaking information that has up to now been too easily hidden from the public. The exposure of dishonesty, cheating, underhandedness, corruption in business (Monsanto and the likes), medicine, big pharma, big farma, finance, government, human rights, animal rights, ecology, food production, manufacturing. I could go on, but you get the idea. There are less chances for secrets now and a new awareness in the general public about what's going on behind the scenes. Getting things out in the open causes a natural/organic righting of the wrongs that have been customarily hidden and therefore able to continue. The silent majority (meek?) speaks through their actions, not words, and can make changes in society just by changing their own behaviors, spending habits, loyalties, etc. in reaction to these revelations.

The Internet is becoming somewhat omniscient, and in the process so are we. Hopefully this will result in a shift, for the better, in morality. It sounds like a Big Brother thing, but in this case we all would be BB. Less secrets. Forcing people, businesses, governments be accountable for their actions. In the process, becoming more respectful of society/nature/the planet—and more moral as a result.

I'm not saying the return of the Christ personality is the Internet, but I think it could play a role.

OK, feel free to tell me why you think I'm a complete nutter. 

I love that so many dirty secrets are now out in the open thanks to the Internet.
I may not agree legally with WikiLeaks, but ETHICALLY I do agree with it.
Power institutions hide behind cloak and dagger stuff, and the first step and one of the most power-ful in crumbling their vice like hold is the internet.

Deb,
   a couple thoughts:
- I think that the internet can be a vehicle for making the world a better place for everyone.
someday, I hope, the internet will be available everywhere, and everyone will own a computer (or some device to surf the web with).
- when people living in war torn places, and places that are controlled by dictatorial nasty governments, find out through the internet, about how people in other places, live in freedom, they will work to effect positive change in their countries.
- the internet a super awesome and excellent teaching/learning tool.
it can be used constructively and creatively, to teach/learn about good things. kindness, peace and joy, and all kinds of really cool stuff.
we're limited only by our imaginations.

another thing I like in our times is that through the internet and telecommunications, we've had news reporters and whole governments shamed and caught out with their outright lies and propaganda.

"There were no casualties in  the blah blah attack on blah....freedom...yadda...necessary attack....yadda yadda"

On the news: the manufactured convenient story that supports the dominant cultural narrative.

On the internet: actual photos and video footage from a cell phone, uploaded to a blog that anyone can view that shows that there were fatalities, or the situation is NOT what was reported and massaged into  "truth". Or that the armed forces yet again shot civilians and then lied about it after the fact.

That sort of thing has happened so many times now, that even the most jaded conservative would have to admit that the news media has very little to do with "facts" about anything, nor does it have any kind of credible objectivity.

Quote from: DebI'm not saying the return of the Christ personality is the Internet, but I think it could play a role.

Deb, you are grasping at straws! The problem that I have (and perhaps you share to some extent) is that I really don't know who Christ was, if he ever existed. The story of the Samaritan woman at the well is an appealing one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_woman_at_the_well

Then you have this kind of bizarre statement:

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it."

http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-12.htm

The only way I can interpret this is by imagining Christ as an extraterrestrial who was born without sex organs.

Wow , lots to catch up on .

     Hi sethspeaks ,

                        Paul was a very complex personality upon whose massive energy , understandings + distortions the church was built + he was supremely successful in its establishment but unfortunately the distotions that you mentioned grew out of the system he created .

                        As you suggested , paul/christ will teach each indiv' his personal contact to their own inner selves + thru this connection ,  the entity itself . So there will be no need of any new churches or 'administrators' of the new faith or religion he will teach , as it will be a more personal message about the self's creation of his own portion of reality .   

                        The person on the cross was deluded + drugged as Seth has said but he has also said that the possibilities + prob's of the crucifixion have not yet been exhausted (or something like that) , another of his cryptic + mindblowing statements (i'll see if i can find it).   I'm sure that paul will one day explain more about the crucif'n + its ramifications + also its source + connection to all of us in the dream state .

                       
Hi Sena , you said ,

                      '(1) He did not say that Christ is All That Is.'

                          Yes ur right , but he did say that Christ knew of or was aware of his position + connection (consciously) to ATI via the auspecies of the entity of which he was also a conscious portion or fragment .   It is this connectivity that he will teach us to find within ourselves .

                      '(2) He did not say that Christ is a god of any description, Almighty or less than Almighty.'

                          The living Christ will seem godlike to us because of his psychic abilities as he will be in direct contact with his entity which is godlike in its awareness + mobility , which spans multitudinous times + places + other planes of existence totally unfamiliar to us right now . HE will be as knowledgeable if not more so than our Seth but he will be here amongst us actually showing + demonstrating to us the powers of the true self , that Seth could only but hint at via Jane + the written page  which we all read so avidly .  Christ will show it , be it , is it .

                      '(3) He did not say that Christ is "good" or "bad".'

                         Christ/paul will be in touch with his inner self + entity + so will be eminently good as the entity cannot be otherwise or would not be an entity of such great force + power to begin with + even Seth has said is much greater than he is + that is saying something .  Entities cannot be bad or evil , it is not possible + goes against Seths  concept of the basic inner law of value fulfillment  which permeates all realities .
                        If you said that paul might be good or bad then i might agree that the paul part of the equation might well have developed in his life some personality traits that could be interpreted in such a way , but the Christ part is entirely beyond such designations .

                       '(4) He did not advise us to become "followers" of the Christ who returns.'

                           If anyone here or anywhere 4 that matter ever got the chance to meet or be taught by the new Christ , whom i believe to be alive now , then they would have lost the chance of a lifetime or generations of lifetimes if he/she did not make contact with this extraordinary personality + become a part of the source of the new enlightenment , more fool he .
          Would you not find it most desireable for someone to show you how to directly contact your own inner self + entity or who could show you your own reincarnational selves or the afterlife or ur own non-physical origins or ur connection to ATI ? It would be as if Seth himself could incarnate + yet still have the powers + knowledge he has now on his plane of existence but even more intensely on all levels with the Christ personality .

                     you also said

                               'Do you mean that the Christ who returns will be a great healer, healing in both mind and body?'

                   Christ/paul will teach methods of contact to the inner self + entity + if one will take his teachings to heart (like Seths teachings) he will come to know the methods by which his body is constantly unconsciously created + that the mind is a creation of the entity , that portion which looks out for the well being of each of its manifestations + allows it some contact to its unmanifest source .   Crist/paul will teach us how to heal ourselves , in all ways .  It is not the mind that needs healing as it is a knowledgeable portion of the entity + therefore non-phys' + unimpeeded by any phys' reality whatsoever , it is simply the ego's belief systems + misconceptions that need to be put right + overcome + made to work for the freedom of the self + not against it .


                   Sethians should have a head start in this sense as many of them should know by now of the creation of mental enclosures thru which all indiv' cons's must come into manifestation + of the mental genes which contain the source mental qualities of the being as well as the phys' genetic information + the emotional mental enzymes which are the catalysts for the material manifestation + the inner senses which collect all of this together + creates the composition as a whole   + the way that it pulsates on + off , from matter to antimatter etc , etc + of course the vitality which is the source material/energy for all of it , the manifest or creative energy of ATI expressed in the units of cons's Seth spks of .

                   
                   The human personality , inner self + ego are constructs or by-products of the entity  , as are our own dream personalities + probable selves constructs or by-products of our own phys' cons's +  which exist on other planes , as we exist on another plane in realation to the entity which never itself becomes manifest + to whom we are merely a portion of his dreams .     The subcons' is a connective but also a barrier to the reality of the inner self + entity as the human personality would be like a straw in a hurricane (Seth) if we were to come into full awareness of the entity itself .
                  It is as Seth describes in his 5th dimensional space , which contains planes within planes within planes + Selves within selves ad infinitum , it is all here + now + it is only the ego's ignorance + duality that keeps us from it .
                  Seth has encouraged us to do daily sessions of dissociation + psy' time (or meditation if you like) to encourage or foster in us the use of the inner senses so we can explore the inner realms of our being + overcome the fear of death that plagues so many .

                   The question has arisen again about Seths concept + statement about the 3 or 4 glasses , each of which is created within the indiv'l space continuum + personal perspective of each of the observers present + that no one gets to see the same glass as anyone else's .   
                   This should bring one to the conclusion that in the most basic + important respects we all , not only (subcons') create , but live in completely seperate worlds . The inner self creates his own atoms + molecules in this production + it is only telepathy + the root assumptions we all agree on , that knits  all of these seperate worlds together + allows us to create + percieve a shared world experience . 
                   
                   It is as Seth has said , our present reality is like an inversion of the experience of the 1st humans , the dreamers , who exp'd phys' reality in a more personal dreamlike way + it was only much later that phys' reality became a more shared exp' along with the creation of the ego .  To the dreamers phys' reality was much like our own dreams are to us now , more personal + intimate .  Then came the inversion of cons's , when both the body cons' + the personality created the ego cons's to deal with the phys' manifestation + the subcons' , which then 'contained' the source + energy of his being .

                   Our very thoughts + feelings are spoon fed us via the subcons' from the inner self + entity , how we interpret + what we create from them is a personal thing , to each his own , but it all comes initially from an inner non-phys' source . Our own ego's are simply certain personality characteristics around which the entity creates a new ego cons' + yet we each contain within us in condensed form , the capsule comprehension which is the knowledge of the entity + the universe as a whole + all of its multitudinous workings , + so does each atom contain this same condensed capsule comprehension + each atom will then choose its own affiliations according to its own self cons' + grow in knowledge of itself by its own activities , as we do in our own more complex human ways + according to the multitudinous freedoms granted us as indiv' personality units , tho constrained somewhat by the entity + karma  . 

                  Seth has decsribed this as being similar to the hypnotists effect upon his subject , we are all in trance with the inner self constantly giving us the suggestions that we are living in a phys' reality , its all just a beautiful , meaningful completely trancelike illusion from which we will eventually awaken .

                  As has been said by Seth + many mystics , phys' reality is an illusion created + produced by the more real + true reality of a non-phys' inner self  who resides  within an inner world of multidimensional existence of which we are but a miniscule  tho intrinsicaly important + loved manifest portion .    Christ will teach us to expand way beyond the present ego's pitiful scientific + religious limitations + dogmas .
                 
                Coooool paul  ,   i sincerly hope i get to meet him ,  because as Seth has said , He is (or will be) an aware portion of ATI manifest upon the earth .  This does not mean He is ATI but is aware of His connection + contact with ATI .    He will be godlike in comparison to any other living being in His Christ/paul illumination , which has not obviously yet occurred .

Quote from: voidypaulThe living Christ will seem godlike to us

Paul, I am sure Christ will appear godlike to Christians. When you refer to "us", I take it that you mean Christians.

"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,"

http://biblehub.com/philippians/2-10.htm

Hi voidypaul,
about crucifixion seth said:
"Symbolically, however, the crucifiction idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifiction per se became a far greater reality than the actual physical events that occured at the time.
Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self-sacrifice, you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective feelings."
SS,s.591
It is not flattering for those who believe this