Understanding Coronavirus

[LarryH]

Today I came across an article about people being able to change their deceased loved one's cause of death on the death certificate to covid if they suspect it could have been involved. My first thought was, how many people will glom onto that opportunity in order to make some extra money?

It appeared from the linked article that this is primarily to address the early deaths before we even knew much about Covid, what it was and how it could trigger other problems that could be fatal. The article indicated that there had to be some logic to the change in cause of death, but it seemed to leave open the possibility of abuse. That being said, the source has a strong political bias based on the headlines of other articles, so I'm not sure we can trust its implications.

[LarryH]

"A cure for cancer could be made using COVID vaccine technology"
https://www.unknowncountry.com/headline-news/a-cure-for-cancer-could-be-made-using-covid-vaccine-technology/

Seth says that if science finds a vaccine or cure for one illness, a person who wants to die will find another way to die. He also seems to suggest that length of life is unimportant from his viewpoint. However, we in physical life tend to prefer the idea of a longer life over one that is cut short. Most of us also tend to prefer a quick death over languishing in hospitals for months before slowly suffocating or wasting away. Personally, I am not a fan of either COVID or cancer as ways of dying, preferring instead to live a vital life to the end and one day not waking up. The one person to date who has died of a blood clot "caused" by the J&J vaccine wanted to die, according to Seth. If she had not gotten the vaccine, I wonder how she would have otherwise died?

[Deb]

Thanks jbseth & Sena for your encouraging words about my son. I do believe in the power of the mind and beliefs.

the source has a strong political bias based on the headlines of other articles, so I'm not sure we can trust its implications.

You've said this before when I've put up news links. Can anyone tell me what news sources you'd recommend as not having any political bias? I'd be glad to take a look.

But, just Google "$9,000 for covid death" and you all can have your pick of articles about this topic.

This is from the FEMA FAQs:

You may qualify (for up to $35,000) if:

"You are a U.S. citizen, non-citizen national, or qualified alien who paid for funeral expenses after January 20, 2020, and

The funeral expenses were for an individual whose death in the United States, territories or the District of Columbia, may have been caused by or was likely the result of COVID-19."

The FAQs also tell you what to do if the death certificate didn't identify COVID-19 as the likely cause of death. So that does seem to open the door to fraud. There's already an issue with opportunists contacting people and offering to "help" them get their money.

The thing I'm curious about is that a lot of people die every day from a variety of causes, and their families do not get federal funeral assistance—why for just for covid? While pharmaceutical companies have "full immunity" from people that are injured or die from their vaccines. Hah, there's double immunity in those vaccines! I just don't get the logic of helping out families of covid deaths and no others. Maybe we also need to take a look at skyrocketing funeral expenses!

Seth says that if science finds a vaccine or cure for one illness, a person who wants to die will find another way to die.... The one person to date who has died of a blood clot "caused" by the J&J vaccine wanted to die, according to Seth. If she had not gotten the vaccine, I wonder how she would have otherwise died?

Yep, that's what we've really needed to keep in mind about all of this. Also, do they know for sure she died by vaccine? Or is a matter of correlation vs. causation? Apparently 7M+ doses of the J&J vaccine have been given. Recently six people had blood clots, one person died. Blood clots in the general public are not that uncommon, 1-2 per 1,000 a year, and most people don't even know they have them. Someone in my family has one his leg, from the groin to mid-calf, and only recently found out because of some swelling in the leg. A clot that large doesn't develop over night... and no J&J vaccine involved. Six instances of blood clots in vaccine recipients seems to be less than our normal national average.

According to the CDC:

"Over 189 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 12, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 3,005 reports of death (0.00158%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS."

So I also find it interesting that while there have been 3,000+ reported deaths of people after getting the vaccine, only J&J gets "paused."

On a lighter note, I was in the mall the other day and saw that the "Covid Essentials" store is closed. I took that as a good omen. They probably use the empty store as a vaccination site.

[LarryH]

Deb, I think that the clots related to J&J are a "rare" form, and this is what made them stand out from the statistics. Other causes of death need to be compared to what would be statistically expected in that population, so I am not surprised that other causes of death have not been found so far to have been triggered by the vaccines.

Per one of your links above, "It is possible to change or amend a death certificate. This process starts with contacting the person who certified the death. This may be a treating doctor, a coroner or a medical examiner, and their name and address is on the death certificate. Applicants may present evidence to them to support the claim the death was attributable to COVID-19."

So if someone wants to commit fraud, they have to get one of those professionals to cooperate in the fraud. Also, the comment about "up to $35,000" (actually $35,500) applies if someone was responsible for the costs of multiple funerals. The limit is $9,000 for one funeral. I agree with you though that there does not seem to be much logic in singling out this one cause of death for reimbursement.

Regarding my comments about biased sources, I just stay away from sources that show a strong bias, right or left. Sometimes it's not that easy, but when one can read several headlines from one source and see a clear pattern of bias, I just don't give it much credibility. It does not mean that what this source says about this subject is not true, but it should show up in the same manner in less biased sources if true (and it appears it has). There is a common belief that mainstream media is typically left-leaning, but I find that belief to be driven by the largely exteme-right wing radio talk show hosts, a very powerful component of the media itself. There are also way too many fly-by-night online sources that focus on fear-mongering and hate (much like the aforementioned radio talk show hosts). I find the national news shows that we get on the three major networks in the early evening extremely balanced. It's hard to tell about CNN, but I generally stay away from FOX News and MSNBC. The Wall Street Journal has a right-middle slant, and the Washington Post and NY Times have a left-middle slant. But generally, I trust those sources.

[Deb]

So if someone wants to commit fraud, they have to get one of those professionals to cooperate in the fraud.

I wonder if that would be hard to do, since the CDC last year released guidelines where if covid was suspected, with or without testing, or if the patient could have possibly been exposed to covid, should considered a covid death seemingly regardless of what else was going on with the patient—doctor's discretion. Then there is the incentive of extra money going to hospitals for covid deaths. There's a lot about this whole pandemic I'll never know—like a lot of things in life. Hah, I was once called "the woman who wants to know everything" by a college professor. I didn't know why she said that at the time, but I do now.

Thanks for the news recommendations. I keep an eye out for opinion vs. news, and prefer sources that link to references for their articles. News sources tend to cater to their audiences, and I understand they are businesses. Also, not everyone wants unbiased news, people are more comfortable with what fits best with their beliefs.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Back about a month ago, (March 17, 2021) I posted a "YouTube" video called, "A Shot in the Dark", which was about a doctor who expressed some concerns having to do with the COVID vaccine (see reply 128 and 132 here). On the same day that I posted this video, it was pulled down by YouTube for not meeting their rules.

Today I was poking around on the internet and I was trying to find out what I could about that video. I was trying to figure out, what was the story having to do with why specifically this video was pulled.

In doing this poking around, I came across the names of two people who might have been the doctor in that video. The first person was named Judy Mikovits. Apparently, Judy Mikovits was a researcher and was one of several researchers who published a research paper indicating that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was created by a mouse related retrovirus (or something like this) back in 2009.  Unfortunately for her, their research results were found to be unrepeatable when attempts at duplication were made. 

Apparently ever since, Ms. Mikovits has been causing problems in the research arena, by making claims that her results were valid and the powers that be have been pushing her results and her, under the carpet. She apparently has written a couple of books, "Plague" and "Plague of Corruption," and apparently she is connected to a video called "Plandemic" that has been removed from the internet because of its "COVID-19" misinformation.

The trailer to this 1 hour + video, was said to be 26 minutes long, and was also removed from the internet.  I couldn't tell if this 26 minute trailer was the "A Shot in the Dark" video, that I saw, but this Shot in the Dark video I saw was about 25 minutes long.  And so I looked that on the internet for images of this Judy Mikovits and can say that she does not look like the doctor who was talking in the "A Shot in the Dark" video that I saw. I have no idea whether this video that I saw was this 26 minute trailer that they were talking about here or not.  As a result of this, I did some more poking around on the internet. 

Somewhere along the line, I came across the name of someone called Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, who apparently is a known anti-vaxxer. This doctor, Sherri Tenpenny, is associated with the former mayor of Neveda City, CA, a Reinette Senum, and they both participated in a 1 hour video warning people of the potential dangers of the coronavirus vaccine.  This also isn't the video that I saw, but when I looked up images of this Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, I am pretty sure that she is the doctor that was warning people about the COVID vaccine in the "A Shot in the Dark" video that I did see.

After doing a little more digging around on the internet about her, I came across a really interesting "Snopes" article that seemed to be all about her and her claims. It actually seems pretty good to me and it does seem to address many of the claims that she made in this video.

Unfortunately, this "Snopes" article does get into this subject, in pretty good detail and it is quite long so it's a slow read. The other thing is that I don't think that anything that's discussed here, necessarily does or doesn't apply to the Johnson and Johnson vaccine and its recent issues.

I've only read this Snopes article through once and so I'm going to read it again.  There were some points that I caught where they seemed to say things like this COVID vaccine is "suppose to" do such and such. My question and my concern here is this, well what happens if it doesn't actually do such and such? 

Here's the link to the Snopes article:


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vaccine-lung-damage/


-jbseth

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,

I remember you posted the vid. I thought your description of the Dr matched Dr. Carrie Madej.
She has done multiple interviews on other people's YouTube channels about the dangers of the vaccine, as well as about what she feels CV19 is about. All her interviews get taken down by YouTube. So I didn't bother posting about her.

You may be able to find some of these interviews on Bitchute, Rokfin, Brighteon, and other such platforms.

[usmaak]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If you don't get the vaccine, you can get sick from COVID.  The current death toll in the US from COVID is 578,397.

If you do get the vaccine then there could be side effects.  Emergency authorization is not the same thing as thoroughly tested and vetted through years of research.  It's more of a "holy crap, we gotta do something" type of thing.

The vaccine is supposed to help the immune cells in the body create the protein spike used by COVID to infect cells.  It is only the spike and not the entire virus.  The body treats it like the virus and builds and immune response.  mRNA and DNA vaccines achieve this goal in different ways.  Killed virus vaccines achieve the same thing, but again, in a different way.

The tricky thing (I'd imagine) with mRNA vaccines is that the immune cells in the body take the instructions and manufacture the proteins needed for the spike.  I wonder if there's a chance that in some cases, the body could manufacture something other than the spike. A specific sequence of nucleotides creates a specific protein and proteins are the building blocks of, well, everything.  I wonder, if, in some cases, the body might manufacture different proteins that are (hopefully) harmless but also not the spike that is needed to stimulate the immune response.

I took genetics last year to finish my degree but that was a whole year ago and the old memory ain't what it used to be.  Here's a CDC document about mRNA vaccines.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

I think that we are all part of one big experiment.  I'd have preferred the old fashioned vaccines, similar to what we get for flu every year.  At least it's tried and true.  If mRNA vaccines don't prove to be an unmitigated disaster, they might be a bright future for their use in other areas.

[LarryH]

Just to put the blood clot issue into perspective, so far, there are less than 1 in a million J&J vaccinations that have caused blood clots. Birth control pills can cause blood clots at the rate of 1 in 1,000 users. So that means (regarding this particular risk) that birth control pills are 1,000 times more dangerous than the J&J vaccine.

[Deb]

I don't know who this Dr. Tenpenny is (cool name, though)

It was Tenpenny, I had commented on her name.

So I heard today that 5,800 people have caught Covid so far, despite being vaccinated. The vaccines take maybe 30 days to be fully effective, probably depending on which one you have, and they're not 100% effective. And there are side effects and some deaths, but relatively small amounts compared to how many vaccines have been given. It's all comes down to choice, at least at this point. I have a friend who is going on a cruise in about a year, and the cruise line requires all employees and travelers to have been fully vaccinated.

I don't know what the J&J vaccine is like, I suppose I should look up the details. The two others are the mRNA ones. The Euro AstraZenica is supposedly more like typical vaccines and is suspected of causing blood clots, so I'm wonder if the J&J shot is similar to the AZ one.

[usmaak]

I don't know who this Dr. Tenpenny is (cool name, though)

It was Tenpenny, I had commented on her name.

So I heard today that 5,800 people have caught Covid so far, despite being vaccinated. The vaccines take maybe 30 days to be fully effective, probably depending on which one you have, and they're not 100% effective. And there are side effects and some deaths, but relatively small amounts compared to how many vaccines have been given. It's all comes down to choice, at least at this point. I have a friend who is going on a cruise in about a year, and the cruise line requires all employees and travelers to have been fully vaccinated.

I don't know what the J&J vaccine is like, I suppose I should look up the details. The two others are the mRNA ones. The Euro AstraZenica is supposedly more like typical vaccines and is suspected of causing blood clots, so I'm wonder if the J&J shot is similar to the AZ one.

J&J is a DNA fragment inside of a deactivated Adenovirus.  It is using the gene for the protein spike.

[Deb]

J&J is a DNA fragment inside of a deactivated Adenovirus.  It is using the gene for the protein spike.

Thanks. Then it does sound more like the AstraZenica one. Both having the blood clot issues. Hmmmm.

[LarryH]

So I heard today that 5,800 people have caught Covid so far, despite being vaccinated. The vaccines take maybe 30 days to be fully effective, probably depending on which one you have, and they're not 100% effective

It's been well-publicized that the two major vaccines in the U.S. are 94 and 95% effective, though they are probably less effective for the new strains. My 91-year-old mom tested positive two weeks after her first Pfizer vaccine, but had no symptoms and tested negative two weeks after that.

[Deb]

So I heard today that 5,800 people have caught Covid so far, despite being vaccinated. The vaccines take maybe 30 days to be fully effective, probably depending on which one you have, and they're not 100% effective

It's been well-publicized that the two major vaccines in the U.S. are 94 and 95% effective, though they are probably less effective for the new strains. My 91-year-old mom tested positive two weeks after her first Pfizer vaccine, but had no symptoms and tested negative two weeks after that.

Wow, 91, bless her heart. Both my parents escaped this physical existence while I was in my 20s (not at the same time).

Would you consider she may have had a false positive on the test? I've read a lot of articles that the rapid test tests for exosomes and are not covid-specific. The immune system would be affected by a vaccination and so exosomes would naturally be present.

Just trying to make sense out of everything. 

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Here's a summary of the Snopes article just in case anyone might be interested but didn't' have the time to read it.


Sometime in the past, there was a vaccine that was developed for SARS and lab animals were given this vaccine. At first the results looked good, but then everything changed and animals died. This was investigated and it was discovered that after getting the vaccine, the animals own immune systems started to aggressively attack their own lungs and this killed them. This phenomenon is called "immunopathology".

The basic issue was this: The vaccine appeared to work at first in terms of controlling early infections and creating an immune response. However, when animals who had been vaccinated were exposed to either SARS or MERS following the vaccination, their immune systems went into overdrive, causing massive and sometimes fatal damage to the lungs.

This information was documented in a 2012 report.  There was also a 2019 report that indicated that there were some severe results that occurred as a result of other SARS and MERS vaccines



Researchers have come to understand that the reason for these reactions, come, from the peculiarities of the coronaviruses themselves. Interactions between coronavirus and the immune system can block part of the immune systems Th-2 cell response, which could send the immune system into overdrive, leading to immunopathology in the lungs.

In addition to this, this Snopes report says that "severe cases of COVID-19 often present elements of immune-system-mediated damage to lung tissue."

(I find this specific comment to be quite interesting. I'm assuming that most of these people who had these severe cases, didn't have the COVID vaccine and if that's true, then why did they have this immune system response to COVID?)

Another "proposed" mechanism for this lung damage is something called ADE (Antibody-Dependent Enhancement). In basic terms, this ADE mechanism occurs when the antibodies created to fight these coronaviruses don't bind to them strong enough. When this occurs, they don't destroy the viral particles and this actually ends up letting the virus infect cells, which could make the infection much more severe.


Along with this, apparently there are at least two types of body immune system responses.

A Th-2 immune system response results in many of the conditions that caused the immunopathology including the blocking or inhibiting anti-inflammatory immune functions and the creation of a storm of infection-fighting cytokines that actively attack the lung.

A Th-1 system immune response results in a different and much better scenario.

Thanks in part to the work of the researchers, vaccine developers were aware that any COVID-19 vaccine they developed required a Th-1 immune system response with little to no Th-2 response.

The Snopes article then says that a vaccine created that includes these features, would overcome the challenges presented in early coronavirus vaccine trials.

Yea, in theory it should, provided that there are also no other issues that result in developing this vaccine in just this unique way.  Along with this, what happens if it turns out that the Th-2 immune response, wasn't adequately suppressed by this vaccine? Does this pose any sort of ""immunopathological" risk to anyone, the next time that they are exposed to the COVID virus?

From what I can tell from this article, it sounds to me like the general public is the test case for the proof that this virus actually works and doesn't contain any other risks.



-jbseth

[usmaak]

I wonder what the animal trials looked like.  All discussion of ethics aside, animals are used in testing for a variety of reasons.  They are a near genetic match for humans.  Their lifespan is a lot shorter and diseases manifest more quickly, so the results of trials are seen a lot more quickly than they would be in humans.  If they've been testing this vaccine technology for a year, I wonder if they've seen this kind of lung damage in the animals that they might have tested on earlier.

Also, I wonder if I should have just skipped the vaccine. 

If you're super science oriented and like reading study information, there's this very long article on the NIH site.  I didn't understand much about it but it does discuss some of the stuff in the snopes article on a more scientific level

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7733686/

It talks about the challenges with skewing vaccines to a Th1 response, instead of a Th2 response.  A strong Th2 response is what causes immunopathology.

At the start of the article is a discussion of the Th1 and Th2 responses and SARS-CoV-2, AKA COVID-19

An important consideration for the design of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines is the promotion of a type-1 helper T cell (Th1) response, to avoid immunopathology. Several groups demonstrated that inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines could elicit Th2 response-associated immune pathology in the lungs following either viral challenge or challenge in immune-senescent mice [33,34]. Similar results were observed in mice vaccinated with the SARS-CoV nucleocapsid (N) protein, which failed to protect from SARS-CoV replication and induced eosinophilic infiltrates into the lungs [35]. Th1/Th2 responses are a model that immunologists use to characterize helper T cell responses. A Th1 response is characterized by the production of cytokines such as interferon gamma (IFN-γ) and IL-12, whereas a Th2 response usually involves the production of IL-4 and IL-6. Many pathogens promote a Th2 response to help usurp clearance by the immune system, and indeed, serum samples from patients who are infected with SARS-CoV-2 have higher levels of Th2-associated cytokines compared to non-infected patients, suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 induces a Th2 response [36], although a Th2 response has also been shown to be largely abrogated in lymph nodes of patients who have died from COVID-19 [37]. Therefore, in developing a vaccine against the new SARS-CoV-2 virus, it may be important to skew the immune response towards a Th1 immune response, but evidence for this strategy to avoid ADE in humans has yet to emerge.

Here's the conclusion:

Overall, a wide variety of approaches are being taken to rapidly develop a vaccine against SARS-CoV-2. Due to the need to simply know the sequence of the desired antigen to begin manufacturing, viral and non-viral nucleic acid vaccines seem to be the quickest out of the gate. These plug-and-play platforms are advancing rapidly through clinical trials. Close behind are more traditional inactivated and subunit vaccines, followed by emerging technologies that apply cells or bacteria to generate potential protective responses. Spike- and RBD-binding, virus-neutralizing antibodies have been successfully raised using a myriad of approaches, and these antibodies have correlated strongly with protection from infection in multiple animal models. In most cases where it has been evaluated, vaccine candidates have been successful in inducing a Th1-skewed T cell response. While the determinants of immune pathology in COVID-19 have not been definitively determined, avoiding a Th2 skew has some theoretical basis for reducing immune pathology.

The overall effect of COVID-19 vaccine development has been a massive invigoration of the field of pandemic vaccine development. It has made real the theoretical promise of platforms which only require an antigen sequence, such as mRNA and vector-based platforms, and massively accelerated their development towards rapid Phase 3 evaluation, on a timeline never seen before for vaccines. However, it is important to note that, despite their rapid manufacturing timeline, these platforms encode for an antigen which was developed over a timeline of many years through basic research on coronavirus biology and protein engineering. Large scale investment and unprecedented mobilization of the research community have generated insight into design, manufacturing, formulation, and deployment of vaccine candidates that may pay dividends in the future when society will need to confront the next inevitable infectious disease outbreak.

[LarryH]

Would you consider she may have had a false positive on the test? I've read a lot of articles that the rapid test tests for exosomes and are not covid-specific. The immune system would be affected by a vaccination and so exosomes would naturally be present.

Of approximately 30 residents and at least 9 employees at my mom's memory care facility, all of whom got vaccinated on or near the same day, 5 residents tested positive. Of those, I was told that "a few" developed COVID symptoms, and one took several weeks to recover.

The CDC website responds to the question, "After getting a COVID-19 vaccine, will I test positive for COVID-19 on a viral test?" The response: "No. None of the authorized and recommended COVID-19 vaccines cause you to test positive on viral tests, which are used to see if you have a current infection.​ Neither can any of the COVID-19 vaccines currently in clinical trials in the United States.​"

[jbseth]

I wonder what the animal trials looked like. 

Of approximately 30 residents and at least 9 employees at my mom's memory care facility, all of whom got vaccinated on or near the same day, 5 residents tested positive. Of those, I was told that "a few" developed COVID symptoms, and one took several weeks to recover.

The CDC website responds to the question, "After getting a COVID-19 vaccine, will I test positive for COVID-19 on a viral test?" The response: "No. None of the authorized and recommended COVID-19 vaccines cause you to test positive on viral tests, which are used to see if you have a current infection. Neither can any of the COVID-19 vaccines currently in clinical trials in the United States."

Hi usmaak, Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Hi usmaak, in the Snopes article that I posted, there are words that are underlined in this article, such as "2012 study". I didn't realize this at first, but these are direct links to the 2012 study itself. There does appear to be some information about the animals studies themselves in these links.




Hi LarryH, that's really interesting.

Do you think that this might mean that there's something going on here with this vaccine, that isn't working the way that they expected it to?




-jbseth

[LarryH]

Hi LarryH, that's really interesting.

Do you think that this might mean that there's something going on here with this vaccine, that isn't working the way that they expected it to?

Not at all. It takes time for the vaccines to be effective, and these people had only gotten the first vaccine. The fact that none of these elderly people had to be hospitalized, and most had mild or no symptoms indicates to me that the first vaccine provided some protection. People are not "fully" (95%) protected with the Pfizer vaccine until two weeks after the second dose.

[usmaak]

I was freaking out a bit yesterday.  I have had tinnitus my entire life, or at least as far back as I can remember.  The last few days it has been considerably worse.  Of course a bit of searching yielded information about people getting tinnitus from the vaccine and people with tinnitus having it get much worse after taking the vaccine.  And as much as I've gotten used to it and don't notice it, I do notice when it gets louder.

Of course I also have bouts of insomnia and I've been going through one of those.  Lack of sleep also makes tinnitus worse.  I got some halfway decent sleep last night and the screeching in my left ear is back to baseline.

[Deb]

An unexpected side effect of covid. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/20/health/supernatural-encounters-pandemic-loved-ones-blake/index.html

[Sena]

An unexpected side effect of covid. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/20/health/supernatural-encounters-pandemic-loved-ones-blake/index.html

Thanks for that link, Deb.

The coronavirus pandemic has now killed more than 600,000 Americans. Many of us never had a chance to hug or say farewell to loved ones who died alone and isolated in hospital wards due to fears of spreading the virus.
But there is another group of pandemic survivors who say they have been granted a second chance to say goodbye. They are people like Horne who believe they've been contacted by a loved one who died from coronavirus.
These experiences can be subtle: relatives appearing in hyper-real dreams, a sudden whiff of fragrance worn by a departed loved one, or unusual behavior by animals. Other encounters are more dramatic: feeling a touch on your shoulder at night, hearing a sudden warning from a loved one, or seeing the full-bodied form of a recently departed relative appear at the foot of your bed.
These stories may sound implausible, but they are in fact part of a historical pattern. There is something in us -- or in our lost loved ones -- that won't accept not being able to say goodbye.

The Law of One view might be that these people who died "graduated" to Fourth Density, i.e. to a higher level of consciousness.