Understanding Coronavirus

[pyromancy]

I think it's so incredibly mindless that NO ONE on any of these media channels tells you how to PREVENT or ELIMINATE the virus in your system

It irritates me knowing that there is misinfo and ignorance about quinine and chloroquinine. Quinine has been used for CENTURIES to kill these viruses. It is a plant compound. Chloroquine is a stronger synthetic form of it. People forgot they live on planet Earth I guess, which contributes to my next point about how people seem to also be massively ignorant about oligodynamics which is the scientifically proven property of metals such as copper and silver among many which kill viruses via ionization.

It'd be one thing is people just didn't know, but it's a whole other thing for people on all these YouTube videos with millions of views and all these news stations and media making no mention of these facts.

And it's a whole other sickening level to have fraudulent organizations like the Communist Party's World Health Disorganization actively promote FALSE information about chloroquine. I don't get upset but to contemplate many thousands of people dying because of scientific illiteracy or misinformation when people have access to their social media to spread this awareness is astonishing.

There wouldn't be a need for a vaccine if people applied this info.

[Deb]

I have to admit I have questions about the hydroxychloroquine controversy. I've heard several doctors say they've used it with great success, and patients who attribute it to saving their lives, and then I hear reports that is is dangerous and kills. I personally have friends and relatives that have taken it numerous times while traveling to countries where malaria is a big problem, and there have been no problems with it at all.

I had the idea the other day that it is not a "cure" for the virus. Like with preventing malaria, I feel it makes the body non-compatible with life for the virus. So if given prophylactically or in the early stages of infection, it neutralizes the virus. Giving it to people who are in the last stages of death will not help, as the body is already overcome by the virus. Too late.

That's just my feeling. I'm not a doctor, not even close. And don't self-medicate! Aquarium treatment ingredients that may resemble the spelling of hydroxychloroquine are about as close as quinine is to strychnine. I read somewhere that the Arizona woman who dosed her husband with ich treatment was being investigated for murder. They had some marital issues and friends and relatives insist he was "no dummy."

[pyromancy]

Chloroquine and quinine are related...it's not just the name

Also, copper ionization is a real thing used in hospitals, pools, and drinking water filtration systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper-silver_ionization

I wonder what a person is supposed to do for example if they're asymptomatic? Just wait around until they need to go to a hospital full of people with germs? I'd rather not.

Copper is absorbed through the skin and can be ingested in supplements. I myself have copper objects and in the same way that a copper silver ionization system works, copper ions in the bloodstream should kill pathogens. Copper is not toxic to humans in small amounts. The body uses it it is a nutrient.

This is not something government agencies will tell you. They know, and are silent. Example from the copper ionization page:

"Copper-silver ionization technology is recognized by the World Health Organization (WHO), the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to control Legionella within potable water distribution networks found in hospitals, hotels and other large type facilities. The level of ions generated has been reported to be usually below EPA Safe Water Drinking Act Lead and Copper Rule AL for copper.[3] The AL for copper in potable water is 1.3 ppm (Cu) and the SCL for silver is 0.1 ppm (Ag) (which is the same as 100 ppb). "


Yet they don't say absolutely anything about this to people on their Twitter or other outlets.

People know at this point the World Health Disorganization is the Chinese government's puppet, but I think nothing is more telling than their complete silence on these facts. Some medical professionals must know this, but the masses are not being told while the mainstream media is so excited to rush a vaccine that wouldn't even be necessary if we eliminated with this kind of information applied.

Copper plate/mesh masks, gloves, clothings. This kind of clothing for nurses.

I am not going to go in to discussing vaccines but from what I can tell, it's something that would be completely unnecessary if people knew these things as preventative measures. Viruses would not be able to survive on these kinds of surfaces or in bodies of water and therefore couldn't be transmitted but people are too dull.

There's no profit in preventative medicine for mega-billion dollar pharma-industries/pharmAgencies that rely on treatments and endless prescriptions.

[narvik2]

How much of this "information and dis-information" is part of usual brain-washing?
we should/must not use our own brains, somebody else does it for us, takes care of us, -government, authorities, accredited institutes...they know better.
i have been surprised about how many- a good part- of population seems to go along with all this without questions.
because sufficiently terrified.? (and happy with cell-phone updates  )
gyms open here monday
we have received hundred of pages of cleaning, disinfecting, hygenics, protocols, rules, restrictions, formulaes to sign for everybody.  no germ or microbe must survive in this sanitized world. ""kill them all for our safety" is remedy today?

like to add here an interesting study Dr. Masaru Emoto has done studying the effect word/thought/music has on water molecules ,( photographed on microscope freezed water melting-simply put)
links to site hado (Hado: The intrinsic vibrational pattern at the atomic level in all matter) photos:
https://www.masaru-emoto.net/en/crystal/
after heavy metal music: https://www.mynaturalhealer.com/dr-emoto-water-experiments/
maybe you like
Thanks to all, I appreciate so much this forum, much to read, much to learn

[Sena]

i have been surprised about how many- a good part- of population seems to go along with all this without questions.

Issa, this is because the fear of death is a very powerful emotion for most people. Atheists fear oblivion and Christians fear punishment. Seth and other teachers have done a great service by helping us understand something about pre-life and afterlife.

[Deb]

@narvik2 I have read too many articles that bring the dis-information into question. Little makes any sense at this point, we may never know the whole truth behind this pandemic. Of my friends, some are seriously uninformed and do not question what they are being fed. Some do critically think and examine the "information" we are given, and I cherish them.

Here's a recent article I enjoyed: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/490006-death-certificates-covid-19-do-not-trust/ The articles I read are not coming from conspiracy theorists, but instead well educated people that are on the front line.

@Sena, I really appreciate your assessment of the fear of death. Yesterday I visited, at a "safe" distance, a couple of friends that have been incapacitated with fear of death from this virus, and they are devoted Catholics. I wondered why they were so fearful of possible death. You answered my question.

[Sena]

Here's a recent article I enjoyed: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/490006-death-certificates-covid-19-do-not-trust/ The articles I read are not coming from conspiracy theorists, but instead well educated people that are on the front line.

Deb, thanks for the interesting link.

"By Malcolm Kendrick, doctor and author who works as a GP in the National Health Service in England. .
As an NHS doctor, I've seen people die and be listed as a victim of coronavirus without ever being tested for it. But unless we have accurate data, we won't know which has killed more: the disease or the lockdown?
I suppose most people would be somewhat surprised to know that the cause of death, as written on death certificates, is often little more than an educated guess. Most people die when they are old, often over eighty. There is very rarely going to be a post-mortem carried out, which means that, as a doctor, you have a think about the patient's symptoms in the last two weeks of life or so. You go back over the notes to look for existing medical conditions.
I do know that other doctors put down Covid-19 on anyone who died from early March onwards. I didn't. What can be made of the statistics created from data like these? And does it matter?

It matters greatly for two main reasons. First, if we vastly overestimate deaths from Covid-19, we will greatly underestimate the harm caused by the lockdown. This issue was looked at in a recent article published in the BMJ, The British Medical Journal.  It stated: "Only a third of the excess deaths seen in the community in England and Wales can be explained by Covid-19."

[Marianna]

i have been surprised about how many- a good part- of population seems to go along with all this without questions.because sufficiently terrified.? (and happy with cell-phone updates  )gyms open here monday  we have received hundred of pages of cleaning, disinfecting, hygenics, protocols, rules, restrictions, formulaes to sign for everybody.  no germ or microbe must survive in this sanitized world. ""kill them all for our safety" is remedy today?

Hi All, hi @narvik2
Good to see you here again and enjoying the forum. Glad to hear your gym is opening, but it is such a shame you'll have to follow '100 pages of cleaning and other protocols" - which in reality make no difference for someone falling or not falling ill.

But since we all create our reality, you created your participation too, and so you can "create" your better future - by expecting to see and visualizing people without masks, unobsessed by hand sanitizing, hugging among friends permitted and so on
As for research and photos of the Japanese scientist, I heard about it. And I use it in everyday life. Every time I fill my 3 liter pitcher with drinking water, I hold my hands around it and say "love, health". I am sure it is useful. As any action/word done/uttered with vibration of love is useful.

My husband and I get sick very infrequently, for health purposes only And though my husband thinks nothing of Seth and all such nonsense, he is affected by my thoughts telepathically and we are on the whole a very happy family

[Marianna]

Issa, this is because the fear of death is a very powerful emotion for most people. Atheists fear oblivion and Christians fear punishment. Seth and other teachers have done a great service by helping us understand something about pre-life and afterlife.

Yes, Sena, thank you for this explanation. I also think that fearing/not fearing death makes a lot of difference. This and "you create your reality" makes my life a happy one - now. I am calm and not afraid not because I don't watch the news, but because I know that frightening info I come across online and in press has nothing to do with creating my tomorrow. No, it is not Polyanna style, but confidence in something that has proved itself true in smaller things for years.

Besides, Seth and a few others - are the sources I trust.                   
                  

[Sena]

This is from am article in "The Lancet", the premier medical journal in the UK. It makes a suggestion on how so-called Third World countries should deal with the coronavirus:

"Concurrently, we suggest that countries must let people get on with their lives—to work, earn money, and put food on the table. Let shop keepers open and sell their wares and provide services. Let construction workers return to building sites. Allow farmers to harvest their crops and to transport them to be sold on the open market. Allow health workers to do their daily work as before, with sensible precautions such as use of gloves and masks to minimise the risk of exposure to the virus. And allow the average citizen to travel freely with restrictions only applied to clusters where lockdowns are necessary. Livelihoods are an imperative for saving lives. Some will say such an approach, which runs the risk of spreading disease, implies that the lives of poor people are not as valuable as those in wealthy countries. Nothing could be further from the truth. The policies of widespread lockdowns and a focus on high-technology health care might unintentionally lead to even more sickness and death, disproportionately affecting the poor. And, if such policies are mandated by global consensus, then global financial institutions must write off outstanding debts from low-income countries and finance the needed resources to underwrite the economic recovery of these countries."

The full article can be downloaded here:

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(20)31089-8

[Marianna]

Thanks Sena! Sounds very reasonable.

[Deb]

I have to admit I have questions about the hydroxychloroquine controversy.

I guess I wasn't alone.

Top medical journal retracts Covid-19 study criticizing hydroxychloroquine after validity of research data questioned

The Lancet, one of the top medical journals in the world, has retracted a study questioning the safety of treating Covid-19 with anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, following controversy surrounding the research firm behind it.

The retraction officially came at the request of the study's authors, who admitted on Thursday they could "no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources."

Healthcare analytics firm Surgisphere, which provided the data, has come under serious scrutiny in recent days as details about the company have come to light.

Though the firm claimed to have gathered their data from thousands of patients at hundreds of hospitals worldwide, an independent investigation has questioned the accuracy of their research. The firm was also found to have almost no online presence and only a handful of employees, one of whom is a science fiction writer and another who is an "adult" entertainer."

https://www.rt.com/news/490828-lancet-hydroxychloroquine-study-retraction-coronavirus/

Update: This has even more information:

https://www.rt.com/news/490734-hydroxychloroquine-faulty-data-science-flaw/

[wanderer]

Let's not forget Elias's help on Covid-19.  I particularly appreciate his advice on viewing an interim new normal as the precursor to the ultimate new normal.

Terminology is challenged in the latest posted session:

Let me also say to you that this is the reason that so many individuals that have actually activated this particular virus didn't incorporate significant symptoms. Why? Because this particular virus is a mutation. It is one in what you would term to be a family of viruses. This is the reason that it has been named Covid-19, because there are 18 other variations.

Session is at http://www.eliasweb.org/Session.aspx?sn=202006031

We have been told that Covid-19 relates to 2019, the year of its discovery.  (Could both be true?)

[Sena]

We have been told that Covid-19 relates to 2019, the year of its discovery.  (Could both be true?)

wanderer, welcome to the forum. There will be more controversy when vaccines become available. May I ask what Elias says about vaccines?

[LarryH]

We have been told that Covid-19 relates to 2019, the year of its discovery.  (Could both be true?)

From the Mirror (UK): "COVID-19 stands for Corona Virus Disease 2019. The name was chosen by the World Health Organisation (WHO), with input from OIE Animal Health and FAO.

In a statement, director general of the WHO, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, explained: "We had to find a name that did not refer to a geographical location, an animal, an individual or group of people, and which is also pronounceable and related to the disease.

"Having a name matters to prevent the use of other names that can be inaccurate or stigmatising. It also gives us a standard format to use for any future coronavirus outbreaks."

Before it was officially named COVID-19, scientists were calling the coronavirus '2019-nCoV'. This covers the year it was discovered, and the fact that it was a novel coronavirus."

So Elias saying the following tells me not to pay any attention to Elias:

This is the reason that it has been named Covid-19, because there are 18 other variations.

[wanderer]

We have been told that Covid-19 relates to 2019, the year of its discovery.  (Could both be true?)

From the Mirror (UK): "COVID-19 stands for Corona Virus Disease 2019. The name was chosen by the World Health Organisation (WHO), with input from OIE Animal Health and FAO.

In a statement, director general of the WHO, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, explained: "We had to find a name that did not refer to a geographical location, an animal, an individual or group of people, and which is also pronounceable and related to the disease.

"Having a name matters to prevent the use of other names that can be inaccurate or stigmatising. It also gives us a standard format to use for any future coronavirus outbreaks."

Before it was officially named COVID-19, scientists were calling the coronavirus '2019-nCoV'. This covers the year it was discovered, and the fact that it was a novel coronavirus."

So Elias saying the following tells me not to pay any attention to Elias:

This is the reason that it has been named Covid-19, because there are 18 other variations.

I must admit, this did strike me as somewhat of a howler!  Then again, there have been times when I have dismissed something from Elias as inaccurate or unlikely, only to subsequently appreciate its truth.

Perhaps Elias was called away to conference, on urgent business, and Mary had to 'fill in'!

[wanderer]

We have been told that Covid-19 relates to 2019, the year of its discovery.  (Could both be true?)

wanderer, welcome to the forum. There will be more controversy when vaccines become available. May I ask what Elias says about vaccines?

From the latest posted session:

I would say that developing vaccines is not entirely flawed, that there is a point to that action, because the premise with vaccines is to incorporate the individual's—or the human's—immune system itself to enhance it, to make it stronger and therefore generate an immunity or to introduce certain organisms to the human body consciousness, and therefore the body consciousness becomes familiar with it and then moves in a direction of being able to effectively and efficiently guard against it. Which actually IS a very creative and inventive direction and is definitely, I would say, productive and valuable.

But even with the mutations of certain organisms, once the body consciousness has become accustomed to the original form, it likely, even if you were to activate a mutation of the organism, you would likely incorporate a much less affectingness physically, because the body consciousness is already familiar with certain components of it and therefore would not be as dramatically affected as it would be otherwise.

[Sena]

We have been told that Covid-19 relates to 2019, the year of its discovery.  (Could both be true?)

wanderer, welcome to the forum. There will be more controversy when vaccines become available. May I ask what Elias says about vaccines?

From the latest posted session:

I would say that developing vaccines is not entirely flawed, that there is a point to that action, because the premise with vaccines is to incorporate the individual's—or the human's—immune system itself to enhance it, to make it stronger and therefore generate an immunity or to introduce certain organisms to the human body consciousness, and therefore the body consciousness becomes familiar with it and then moves in a direction of being able to effectively and efficiently guard against it. Which actually IS a very creative and inventive direction and is definitely, I would say, productive and valuable.

But even with the mutations of certain organisms, once the body consciousness has become accustomed to the original form, it likely, even if you were to activate a mutation of the organism, you would likely incorporate a much less affectingness physically, because the body consciousness is already familiar with certain components of it and therefore would not be as dramatically affected as it would be otherwise.

Wanderer, I am not sure whether I can agree with Elias's view on vaccines, but thanks for the information.

[Deb]

Perhaps Elias was called away to conference, on urgent business, and Mary had to 'fill in'!

Ha ha, that was pretty funny. Welcome to the forum wanderer! I've been off-grid for a few days, trying to escape the heat. I'm back now and feel like I've stepped right back into an oven.

As far as vaccines, I did hear recently that about 1000 people somewhere (England?) were given a test vaccine and supposedly 100% of them resulted in producing antibodies to Covid, with no adverse reactions. I certainly hope they were tested for the antibodies before they were given the vaccine. I'll do some research for the specifics, will update here if I find anything. At this point I don't trust anything I hear or read anymore, so many results and statistics are misrepresented and the "facts" are changed on a daily, if not hourly, basis. The Seth side of me tells me that we make our own reality, and if we believe something (medicine/vaccine) is going to work, then it will.

A personal experience: Two weeks ago my son (only child) was directly exposed to Covid. He had a visit from an out-of-state roommate who was visiting here for a few days. He had a few sips of his friend's beer. Friend went back home, immediately became ill and tested positive. I was sweating bullets for a week waiting for my son's test result. He's only 25 but has some underlying health issues going against him. His test came back negative. The night before his results came back, I had a dream wherein someone whispered to me, "It's not as easily transmitted as you have been told." Much relief on my part. But he did pay for his recklessness in a sense: he was quarantined from work for 14 days, without pay. Hopefully he learned something. I prefer to learn from other people's mistakes, lol.

[Sena]

A personal experience: Two weeks ago my son (only child) was directly exposed to Covid. He had a visit from an out-of-state roommate who was visiting here for a few days. He had a few sips of his friend's beer. Friend went back home, immediately became ill and tested positive. I was sweating bullets for a week waiting for my son's test result. He's only 25 but has some underlying health issues going against him. His test came back negative.

Deb, I am glad your son is well. I have read that the Covid 19 test sometimes gives false negative results, but false positive results are very rare:

"The number of people accessing Covid-19 testing in the UK continues to increase. Health Secretary, Matt Hancock recently announced, that anyone over the age of five years old who is showing symptoms is eligible for a test.[1] However, there are concerns that the rate of 'false negative' test results could be as high as 30% and a significant number of people are wrongly being told they do not have the virus.[2] This could be due to the particularly difficult nature of obtaining the swab, which requires someone to take a sample from the very back of the mouth or deep from inside the nose."

https://www.patientsafetylearning.org/blog/covid-19-tests-the-safety-implications-of-false-negatives

[LarryH]

In the context of The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events, I found this opinion column in my local paper to be consistent with Seth's reasons for such mass events:

July 26, 2020, COVID-19 has exposed our nation's gravest failings: "Viewing COVID-19 through a historian's lens, it's difficult to imagine a vehicle more efficiently designed for exposing and exploiting our nation's gravest failings, among them being our virulent racism; our consistent undervaluing of 'essential' workers and occupations; our shameful neglect of the needs of the elderly, disabled, children and families; and our outright inhumanity toward undocumented immigrants and incarcerated populations."

Of course, it goes beyond those categories, such as uneven access to healthcare, minimum wage being nowhere near a living wage, broken unemployment compensation systems (Florida, for one), needs of indigenous peoples and the homeless, prioritizing property over lives, prioritizing defense spending over social spending, welfare for the rich, etc.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Deb, I also second Sena's comment. I'm really glad to hear that your son is OK. One of our sons has Type 2 diabetes and Covid is nothing that he or anyone with health risks, needs to be exposed to.

I wonder if your dream message is really true, that "Covid" is not as easily transmitted as everyone thinks.



LarryH, I completely agree, this newspaper article sounds to me like it comes directly from NOME. I wonder if the writer is familiar with Seth's ideas.

-jbseth

[LarryH]

LarryH, I completely agree, this newspaper article sounds to me like it comes directly from NOME.

jbseth, I would note also that the article is U.S. specific, where all of these problems are occurring and where the country is among the worst hit. It would be interesting to see how the pandemic has exposed the problems in other countries. It may not be coincidence that many of the worst-hit countries are run by "strongmen", while many of the countries that have been most successful in managing the pandemic are run by women - Germany, Taiwan, New Zealand among them.

[Deb]

I have read that the Covid 19 test sometimes gives false negative results, but false positive results are very rare:

Came across this today, I thought I'd share just for the heck of it. It's related to Elon Musk's tweet that he had 4 covid tests in one day, two came back positive and two negative.

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1327134822993682432

[LarryH]

Musk took the rapid test 4 times. The rapid test is known to be less accurate than the test that takes days to get results from. False positives do not explain why the hospitals all over the country are filling up with Covid patients.

[Sena]

I have read that the Covid 19 test sometimes gives false negative results, but false positive results are very rare:

Came across this today, I thought I'd share just for the heck of it. It's related to Elon Musk's tweet that he had 4 covid tests in one day, two came back positive and two negative.

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1327134822993682432

Deb, this is a tweet by Dr.Clare Craig:

"I'm a diagnostic pathologist. There are issues with testing at the moment. The rapid antigen test is more likely to underdiagnose than overdiagnose so you should indeed get checked with PCR. However, PCR errors are causing a false positive pseudoepidemic."

More from Dr.Craig:

"How can we tell they are not genuine COVID deaths?

In April, the chance of someone dying having been admitted to hospital with COVID was 6%.  By June that had fallen to 1.5%.  This was attributed to changes in treatment and some of that drop may well be due to improved treatment.  However, as soon as the rate of death reached the background death rate for general hospital admissions we have to be suspicious about how many of these patients actually had COVID.

If these cases were false positives then there would be other signals in the data.  For example, cases would be randomly dispersed through the population with only one per household rather than clustering.  Since the beginning of June, the ONS Infection Survey pilot (the pillar 4 testing of randomly selected households), has found 95% of the positive cases have been the only case in their household (4). This compares with the ONS estimate of an average of 1.6 cases per household in May (4). (This is worth emphasising – either the large majority of these positive cases in the survey are false-positive, as I am arguing – or Coronavirus is so hard to catch from people in your household that only 5% of the time does this happen.)"

https://logicinthetimeofcovid.com/blog/

[Deb]

either the large majority of these positive cases in the survey are false-positive, as I am arguing – or Coronavirus is so hard to catch from people in your household that only 5% of the time does this happen.

Yes, the link I'd provided was to Dr.Craig's tweet in response to Musk's, I thought it was more valuable and interesting than the Musk tweet.

There's still so much we don't know about covid, so many different experts saying different things. I've never experienced anything like this. And yet, other than dealing with masks, some supply shortages and public restrictions such as social distancing and restaurants having to adjust their capacity, my life is fairly unaffected. I still don't know anyone personally who has had it, but  I hear the news reports of the upsurge in cases. I like details, and that's one thing I feel have been not provided. Such as, is the new surge in covid cases based solely on test results, which continue to be more available as time goes on? Is it based on hospitalizations? And are hospitals still being incentivized with extra money for covid patients and deaths? Unfortunately when I heard something on the news (radio), I can't ask these questions.

And that comment from Dr. Craig that covid may not be as infectious as we thought... my son works in a restaurant. He's 25 and parties with friends on his time off. He's been exposed, closely exposed, to the virus at least twice that he's told me. At parties, at work... and yet (knock on wood), he's fine. So I have to wonder.

I'm looking forward to putting all of this behind us.

BTW Sena, thanks for that link to the blog. I just subscribed to it. I just wish her covid cases chart was more current.

[Deb]

I just wish her covid cases chart was more current.

Well, ask and you shall receive! At the bottom of the blog post was "EDIT 13/09/2020 I have started a live blog listing evidence as it comes in to demonstrate that these were false positive results." The live blog is here: https://logicinthetimeofcovid.com/2020/09/12/evidence-for-false-positives/

[LarryH]

Such as, is the new surge in covid cases based solely on test results, which continue to be more available as time goes on? Is it based on hospitalizations?

It is not based solely on test results. Hospitalizations in the U.S. have clearly moved up sharply in recent weeks, and people don't get admitted to the hospital for no reason. And along with that, regardless of how many tests are done, the percentage of positives has increased, consistent with the increased hospitalizations. The percentage of false positives should be consistent over time, so a percentage increase in positives would be a percentage increase in true positives.

[Sena]

I just wish her covid cases chart was more current.

Well, ask and you shall receive! At the bottom of the blog post was "EDIT 13/09/2020 I have started a live blog listing evidence as it comes in to demonstrate that these were false positive results." The live blog is here: https://logicinthetimeofcovid.com/2020/09/12/evidence-for-false-positives/

Deb, thanks. I hadn't seen that page.

[LarryH]

Elon Musk has the virus. That tells me that his "false positives" mentioned above were true positives, and the negatives were false negatives. He said that he had minor cold-like symptoms, which is probably why he got tested. I have to wonder if the tests are only able to say "positive" or "negative". I would think that there would be a level of infection near that break point where there is a nearly 50% chance of a false reading. Maybe there should be a range of viral load that says, "undetermined", where the virus barely shows up and may or may not develop further. If a test showed "undetermined", that would call for an additional test and at least temporary quarantine until cleared by a "negative" test.

[LarryH]

An ER nurse describes patients denying they have COVID—even while they're dying from it: https://www.upworthy.com/nurses-covid

"An ER nurse in South Dakota shared her experience treating COVID patients—some of whom refuse to believe they have COVID—and it's really shocking. One might think that the virus would become real to people if they were directly affected by it, but apparently that's just not true for some. As Jodi Doering wrote on Twitter:

'I have a night off from the hospital. As I'm on my couch with my dog I can't help but think of the Covid patients the last few days. The ones that stick out are those who still don't believe the virus is real. The ones who scream at you for a magic medicine and that Joe Biden is going to ruin the USA. All while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm. They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that 'stuff' because they don't have COViD because it's not real. Yes. This really happens. And I can't stop thinking about it. These people really think this isn't going to happen to them. And then they stop yelling at you when they get intubated. It's like a fucking horror movie that never ends. There's no credits that roll. You just go back and do it all over again.' "

[Sena]

An ER nurse describes patients denying they have COVID—even while they're dying from it: https://www.upworthy.com/nurses-covid

"An ER nurse in South Dakota shared her experience treating COVID patients—some of whom refuse to believe they have COVID—and it's really shocking. One might think that the virus would become real to people if they were directly affected by it, but apparently that's just not true for some. As Jodi Doering wrote on Twitter:

'I have a night off from the hospital. As I'm on my couch with my dog I can't help but think of the Covid patients the last few days. The ones that stick out are those who still don't believe the virus is real. The ones who scream at you for a magic medicine and that Joe Biden is going to ruin the USA. All while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm. They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that 'stuff' because they don't have COViD because it's not real. Yes. This really happens. And I can't stop thinking about it. These people really think this isn't going to happen to them. And then they stop yelling at you when they get intubated. It's like a fucking horror movie that never ends. There's no credits that roll. You just go back and do it all over again.' "

Larry, may I ask what is the point of this post on a Seth forum? It seems that you are continuing your campaign of provoking fear of a virus.

[Sena]

A recent study has shown that once infected with Covid 19, most individuals have long-term immunity to prevent a second attack:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7430600/

https://www.immunology.washington.edu/2020/10/05/immunology-faculty-dr-marion-pepper-covid-19-research-featured-in-seattle-times/

"The recently emerged SARS-CoV-2 virus is currently causing a global pandemic and cases continue to rise. The majority of infected individuals experience mildly symptomatic coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), but it is unknown whether this can induce persistent immune memory that might contribute to herd immunity. Thus, we performed a longitudinal assessment of individuals recovered from mildly symptomatic COVID-19 to determine if they develop and sustain immunological memory against the virus. We found that recovered individuals developed SARS-CoV-2-specific IgG antibody and neutralizing plasma, as well as virus-specific memory B and T cells that not only persisted, but in some cases increased numerically over three months following symptom onset. Furthermore, the SARS-CoV-2-specific memory lymphocytes exhibited characteristics associated with potent antiviral immunity: memory T cells secreted IFN-γ and expanded upon antigen re-encounter, while memory B cells expressed receptors capable of neutralizing virus when expressed as antibodies. These findings demonstrate that mild COVID-19 elicits memory lymphocytes that persist and display functional hallmarks associated with antiviral protective immunity."

https://www.immunology.washington.edu/files/2020/10/CV-monoclonal-treatment-W.jpg

[LarryH]

Larry, may I ask what is the point of this post on a Seth forum? It seems that you are continuing your campaign of provoking fear of a virus.

What fear am I provoking? That the virus exists? That people who don't believe in the virus still die from the virus? There is nothing in the post that suggests that they did not die by choice, regardless of the virus. It does suggest that these people were not able to "believe" the virus out of existence. As I have stated elsewhere here, I am not afraid of the virus or of death. I accept the reality of both. I feel for the ER nurse who has to put up with the vitriol of these patients. People on the front lines in the medical profession have enough to deal with right now without ignorance-based personal attacks from their patients.

[Sena]

I feel for the ER nurse who has to put up with the vitriol of these patients.

Larry, it is an interesting word you use - "vitriol":
1.
bitter criticism or malice.
"her mother's sudden gush of fury and vitriol"
2.
ARCHAIC•LITERARY
sulphuric acid.
"it was as if his words were spraying vitriol on her face"

It appears that Seth did not use that word:

https://findingseth.com/q/vitriol/

[LarryH]

It appears that Seth did not use that word

Not sure what your point is, Sena. I used "vitriol" to refer to "the ones who scream at" the ER nurse who was quoted. It was used correctly. Does Seth have to use a word for me to legitimately use it in a post?

[Sena]

It's like a fucking horror movie that never ends.

Larry, your original post has some choice phrases. You expect Seth readers to be enlightened by these phrases?

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Ok guys, let's not lose of cool over this.  Over the years, all three of us have expressed different ideas about different topics.


To be honest, I thought LarryH's original post, reply # 81, was quite interesting from a "Seth" standpoint.  Seth tells us that we create our reality. He also tells us that our "beliefs" have an impact on this.

Just yesterday, my wife and I were discussing the question about people who don't know about Seth, but who have strong beliefs in certain areas. The question is, do these peoples beliefs, actually work in their favor and make them safe. 

In thinking about this, I think that it's very possible, that when their beliefs are sincere, they may very well be safe from the issue, whatever it be. On the other hand, if they have conflicting beliefs or really don't believe, what they say they do, then I think this opens them up to a certain risk of exposure to the specific issue, whatever it be.


This is an issue that I don't believe that we've ever discussed here before, and if my intuition on this topic, is serving me well here, I suspect that each one of you two probably have a different thought about this, than I do.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.


- jbseth

[LarryH]

Larry, your original post has some choice phrases. You expect Seth readers to be enlightened by these phrases?

Jbseth, yes, my post was about beliefs.

Sena, the quote was one ER nurse's experience, her reality, a "fucking nightmare". If you were an ER nurse who was constantly personally attacked by patients because of their belief that their condition is not real among other delusional claims, and this on top of all of the other pressures that the healthcare workers are enduring right now, from your enlightened Sethian viewpoint, what would you call it? Denying this nurse's experience does not strike me as Sethian. Acknowledging that nightmares (waking or otherwise) are useful learning experiences would be Sethian. What would you like to see this nurse and her patients learn from their experiences? What would you say about their conflicting beliefs?

[Deb]

Wow all this over the tweets of an ER nurse. Since when are tweets accepted as unbiased truth?

Being an ER nurse, where ER is a typically short-lived stay (people are then either sent home, given a room or moved to intensive care), how many of her South Dakota patients do you suppose have screamed at her (remember, they are close to being intubated, can't imagine someone having the lung capacity at that point) for magic medicine and that Joe Biden is going to ruin the USA. By her tweet, it sounds like a lot have. Hard to imagine. And hard to imagine someone being sick enough to be intubated (they still do that?), with severe symptoms, that would still deny they have covid.

Fact, or a nurse on a rant? And what does Biden have to do with someone having covid?

What difference does it make what her patients believe is making them sick? I don't think that's going to change their treatment.

Also, I could not find anything saying that Elon Musk definitively has covid, unless I missed something. He said he had mild cold-like symptoms. So there is a chance he actually has a cold. Or the flu. Why does it have to automatically be covid? I saw another article yesterday that said the PCR tests don't test specifically for covid, they detect exosomes and there can be a variety of causes. I'm sure he'll have an antibody test at some point and will announce the results.

[LarryH]

Since when are tweets accepted as unbiased truth?

Fair point, though the source of the commonly held beliefs allegedly expressed by the patients was one particular Twitter account of a very powerful man whose followers will believe literally anything that he says no matter how delusional. Hey, you asked.

And hard to imagine someone being sick enough to be intubated (they still do that?)

Are you under the impression that they don't put Covid patients on ventilators anymore?

And what does Biden have to do with someone having covid?

This was in reference to patients saying that "Joe Biden was going to ruin the USA.", an idea that comes from the same people who said that Covid was a democrat hoax. If you believe one, you are likely to believe the other.

What difference does it make what her patients believe is making them sick?

They can believe what they want, but their reported behavior toward the nurse is the point.

Also, I could not find anything saying that Elon Musk definitively has covid, unless I missed something.

News report said that he could not attend the recent launch of the astronauts because he had Covid.

[LarryH]

That some patients with COVID could be in denial about their condition may be explained by this (from https://www.unknowncountry.com/headline-news/mood-disorders-and-vivid-hallucinations-covid-19s-devastating-effects-on-the-brain/:

"People have been worried that COVID-19 survivors will be at greater risk of mental health problems, and our findings... show this to be likely," said Paul Harrison, a professor of psychiatry at Oxford. "(Health) services need to be ready to provide care, especially since our results are likely to be underestimates (of the number of psychiatric patients)."

Another study conducted by the Northwestern Medicine health system showed that up to one-third of hospitalized patients displayed "altered mental function" that included phenomena such as confusion, delusions and unresponsiveness.

But the neurological effects don't appear to be confined just to mood disorders, with some patients reporting vivid hallucinations as part of their symptoms."

[LarryH]

Being an ER nurse, where ER is a typically short-lived stay (people are then either sent home, given a room or moved to intensive care), how many of her South Dakota patients do you suppose have screamed at her (remember, they are close to being intubated, can't imagine someone having the lung capacity at that point)

Nothing is normal in S. Dakota, since it is currently the worst state as well as worse than any country for COVID. There may be no ICU beds to move a patient to, so the ER is likely to have longer-term patients. Or an ER nurse could be temporarily re-assigned to where she is needed most. When a COVID patient arrives at an ER, they may not feel respiratory distress because low O2 levels are not noticed at first. They will be put on an O2 SAT monitor to watch their levels. At that point, a patient is fully able to "scream". If the O2 saturation drops below a certain level, they are first put on supplementary oxygen. If it drops further despite that, they may be put on a ventilator. The patient may still be unclear why they need to be ventilated because they are still not feeling significant respiratory distress.

[Sena]

Nothing is normal in S. Dakota, since it is currently the worst state as well as worse than any country for COVID.

Larry, many people are choosing to die with a positive Covid test in South Dakota?

[Marianna]

many people are choosing to die with a positive Covid test in South Dakota?

Yes, Sena, they do For their personal reasons they (unconsciously) decided to die. But of Covid - so that their death makes a statement. Like a part of mass suicide. This is what Seth is talking about in his Nature of Mass Events - you know that. 

[Marianna]

Acknowledging that nightmares (waking or otherwise) are useful learning experiences would be Sethian. What would you like to see this nurse and her patients learn from their experiences?

Hi LarryH and All!
Yes, certainly, acknowledging nightmares would be Sethian. But for a non-Sethie it is difficult. It is not easy for a Sethie either - think of your own non-waking dreams, when you are sure things are for real.

Frontline workers - like everyone else - create their own experience. In stressful situations there are several good things - to check your strength in a crisis to prove it is there, to feel heroic. Because so many professions (which are now frontline) are far from heroic in normal situation. And we often don't notice these people. Take them for granted very much (post office, usps, grocery).  And for them - to get up in the morning and go to such job - non-heroic, unappreciated, unexciting - couldn't have been much fun.

As for patients and nurses - learning from this experience, I do not see anything striking. More - reaching other goals - feeling alive, having the experience of danger, being seen finally, overcoming fears.

So - overcoming fears can be what one learns. Since difficulty breathing is the symptom of great fear and distrust of life and people (V. Sinelnikov "Love your disease".) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-your-disease-Valery-Sinelnikov/dp/9662537090 

[Sena]

many people are choosing to die with a positive Covid test in South Dakota?

Yes, Sena, they do For their personal reasons they (unconsciously) decided to die. But of Covid - so that their death makes a statement. Like a part of mass suicide. This is what Seth is talking about in his Nature of Mass Events - you know that. 

Marianna, yes it does appear to be mass suicide all over the world. Seth did talk about over-population. The reason for the mass suicide might be to encourage the rest of the human race to re-think their priorities, to pay more attention to teachers like Seth.

[Deb]

Frontline workers - like everyone else - create their own experience.

Thanks for that gentle reminder Marianna, it seems even the most experienced Seth readers need to be reminded of this most basic tenet of Seth. It's too easy to get sucked into the official line of consciousness since it's always in our faces.

[Michael Sternbach]

Hi Marianna

Acknowledging that nightmares (waking or otherwise) are useful learning experiences would be Sethian. What would you like to see this nurse and her patients learn from their experiences?

Hi LarryH and All!
Yes, certainly, acknowledging nightmares would be Sethian. But for a non-Sethie it is difficult. It is not easy for a Sethie either - think of your own non-waking dreams, when you are sure things are for real.

Frontline workers - like everyone else - create their own experience. In stressful situations there are several good things - to check your strength in a crisis to prove it is there, to feel heroic. Because so many professions (which are now frontline) are far from heroic in normal situation. And we often don't notice these people. Take them for granted very much (post office, usps, grocery).  And for them - to get up in the morning and go to such job - non-heroic, unappreciated, unexciting - couldn't have been much fun.

As for patients and nurses - learning from this experience, I do not see anything striking. More - reaching other goals - feeling alive, having the experience of danger, being seen finally, overcoming fears.

So - overcoming fears can be what one learns. Since difficulty breathing is the symptom of great fear and distrust of life and people (V. Sinelnikov "Love your disease".) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-your-disease-Valery-Sinelnikov/dp/9662537090 

Spoken in true Sethian spirit! 

I fully agree - as "metaphysicists", we must ever be ready to look behind the facade of what seems to transpire in the view of a majority of people.