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Hi Sena, Hi All,

Sena, thanks for sharing that information from Chapter 7 of “Psychic Politics” with us. I like what it says.  :)

I see from Chapter 7 of this book, that this information came directly to Jane, from the book, “Psychic Politics” that Jane psychically picked up, from her “psychic” library. How awesome is that.  :)

As I was reading this information, I noticed that it sounds quite a bit like some of what Seth talked about in Chapter 5 of his book DEAVF1. This is the chapter that’s titled, “The “Garden of Eden.” “Man “Loses” His Dream Body and Gains a “Soul”. Check it out.

DEAVF1, Ch 5, S899:

(Long pause in a steady, rather fast delivery.) Man’s dream body is still with him, of course, but the physical body now obscures it. The dream body cannot be harmed while the physical one can—as man quickly found out as he transformed his experience largely from one to the other. In the dream body man feared nothing. The dream body does not die. It exists before and after physical death. In their dream bodies men had watched the spectacle of animals “killing” other animals, and they saw the animals’ dream bodies emerge unscathed.

They saw that the earth was simply changing its forms, but that the identity of each unit of consciousness survived—and so, although they saw the picture of death, they did not recognize it as the death that to many people now seems an inevitable end.

[Men] saw that there must be an exchange of physical energy for the world to continue. They watched the drama of the “hunter” and the “prey,” seeing that each animal contributed so that the physical form of the earth could continue—but the rabbit eaten by the wolf survived in a dream body that men knew was its true form. When man “awakened” in his physical body, however, and specialized in the use of its senses, he no longer perceived the released dream body of the slain animal running away, still cavorting on the hillside. He retained memory of his earlier knowledge, and for a considerable period he could now and then recapture that knowledge. He became more and more aware of his physical senses, however: Some things were definitely pleasant and some were not. Some stimuli were to be sought out, and others avoided, and so over a period of time he translated the pleasant and the unpleasant into rough versions of good and evil.

-jbseth

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Quote from: jbseth
These comments that were made by Jane, in this chapter of her book, “Psychic Politics” make me wonder if perhaps the transcendent experiences that people have, may likewise operate in a similar fashion. That is, like the codicils, we have to be at a certain stage of consciousness before we can experience them. Furthermore, perhaps it isn’t possible to experience these transcendent experiences at our normal level of consciousness.
jbseth, thanks for drawing our attention to Jane Robert's book "Psychic Politics". This was published in 1976, two years after NOPR. Another quote from the book (Chapter 7):

"The present model for physical life precludes any
easy mixing of the living and the dead, any casual encounters
between those in flesh and out of it as a common occurrence.
This was not always the case, for at one time the dead and
living mixed far more openly
. Man’s consciousness chose to
focus upon ever-increasing specifics in terms of time, how­
ever, and gradually closed out the reference points in which
such encounters could occur.
In the previous wider reference there was enough
leeway for corporal and noncorporal experiences to intersect
in space under certain conditions. The closer time reference
chosen closed this gap, requiring on the part of the dead a
specific focus they could not easily achieve in order to make
their presence felt.
The path of the living and dead become divergent.
Earlier, however, the dead continued to instruct—parents
returning to their children, and dead travelers returning to
their tribes, telling of their journeys. In this way, for mil­
lennia, knowledge was passed on through the centuries. Man’s
consciousness was more flexible and accommodating, yet
while it operated in that manner, the possibilities for more
specific experience and more precise focus remained latent.
Man gradually altered the focus of his consciousness, per­
ceiving as real only those phenomena that fell within a
particular range, bringing into actuality levels of physical
experience to which he had been blind earlier, and gradually
becoming opaque to other stimuli which he had once per­
ceived clearly.
Encounters with the dead then became blurred,
occurring in dream states; which always represent other areas
of consciousness dimly perceived but not accepted as official
reality."
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Comic Relief & Entertainment / Re: Laughter is the best medicine!
« Last post by jbseth on April 09, 2021, 11:11:59 AM »
Hi Deb,Hi All,

Those are really great Deb, thanks for posting them. :)

I particularly liked the High School Reunion article.

-jbseth
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Quote from: leidl
Thank you for sharing this, jbseth, I can't imagine what it would feel like to grow up with a story like this in the family.  So many people who experience NDE's say something similar to what your mother did, about not wanting to leave the feeling of love.  They too seem to believe that this source of love is something outside them, something they can be separated from.  Has anyone has ever read of an NDE experience where someone realizes they are not separate from this love, and are happy to go back to their bodies with a new realization of their oneness with ATI and its shared nature of love?  If so I hope you will post.


Hi leidl, Hi All,

Hi, leidl, I can’t say that I’ve come across a NDE story quite like that. However, I have come across several NDE stories where people have come back with what they felt was a mission. In many cases, this mission was to share their stories and to make people aware of their personal NDE experiences.

One of the most incredible NDE stories that I’m aware of is the NDE story of Anita Moorjani, which is written about in her book, “Dying to be Me”. I would definitely say that Anita is one of those people who feels that she has a mission to tell her story, and I for one, I’m glad that she did and does. Her story is amazing.

An idea has been running around in my mind lately about the “transcendent” experiences that people sometimes have. This idea is this, maybe people have to be at a certain level or stage of consciousness in order to experience them. That is, they have to be at some level “other than” our normal everyday level of consciousness in order to experience them. For example, what I’m trying to say here is this. When we’re at a theatre and watching a movie, we aren’t at our normal level of consciousness. Instead, we’re so fully engrossed in the movie, that we momentarily forget about who we are. Likewise, something similar happens to us when we go to sleep and dream, or when we meditate, or when we daydream. I suspect that in some cases, these other than normal levels of consciousness may be very subtle. In fact, they may be so subtle that we may not even recognize them.


I think that this idea has probably come to me from something that Jane has written about in her book, Psychic Politics”. In this book, in Chapter 24, titled “Stages of Consciousness”, Jane has some interesting things to say about this topic.  I’m going to both quote and paraphrase some of what she says here just to make it easier.

She starts out by talking about a transcendent experience that she recently had. I think that this transcendent experience was really pertinent to this topic and very beautiful and so I’m going to quote some of it in the spoiler below.  In regards to this transcendent experience, Jane says the following.


Sorry, you must be logged in to view spoiler contents.



After having this transcendent experience, she tells us that the next day, she sat down at her desk and some additional material came to her. She says that this additional material was related to her experience of the day before.  Then she proceeds to write about the “Stages of Consciousness”. Under this section she writes about four stages of consciousness, Stage One to Stage Four. From what she writes here it’s pretty apparent that our normal stage of consciousness would be Stage Zero, though she doesn’t write about this stage.

In talking about these stages of consciousness, she mentions how in our society once you begin to glimpse these wider abilities, people are afraid that the self you know would be swept away or annihilated by them. Instead the “old self” assimilates this new information and becomes the “new self”. She says that sometimes the self becomes frightened because of its own beliefs and so it sets up barriers to psychic growth that are in direct proportion to this sensed psychic expansion. She says that the state of consciousness that we consider to be normal is only a threshold to natural progressions. She says that to one extent or another each person tries to outgrow that normal state of consciousness and in doing so, her stages of consciousness, one through four become apparent.

Stage one is the stage where unofficial information begins to be perceived. Such as in automatic writing and in Ouija board usage. Following this, each stage gets progressively deeper.

Following her discussion of these four stages, she begins to talk about the codicils and where they fit in. She says that they aren’t visible at our normal stage of consciousness and in fact at this level, they seem to contradict much of the known facts. She also says that the codicils made perfect sense to her when she was in the same stage of consciousness in which she received them. She says that at that level of consciousness they are accepted as fact to those (Seth, Sumari, Seven and Helper) who operate at that level habitually.   Jane tells us that Seth Two seems to operate at an even a more distant level.

These comments that were made by Jane, in this chapter of her book, “Psychic Politics” make me wonder if perhaps the transcendent experiences that people have, may likewise operate in a similar fashion. That is, like the codicils, we have to be at a certain stage of consciousness before we can experience them. Furthermore, perhaps it isn’t possible to experience these transcendent experiences at our normal level of consciousness.

This might explain why it is possible for some people to experience that incredible feeling of love, like that experienced by leidl, my mother and Jane. Perhaps people need to be at a certain stage of consciousness, in order to experience that feeling of love. 

-jbseth
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Quote from: leidl
Reading my earlier post, I see that I mentioned I'd like to feel the reality of All-That-Is more.  That was a nonsensical statement.  All-That-Is, by definition, includes me, yet  I am speaking of it as if it is out there!  As long as I believe it is out there, I will create that experience.  ATI will feel remote to me.
I think when we want to feel a greater connection to All-That-Is, we are really talking about an expansion of our definitions of ourselves. This idea of expansion is to somehow experientially include the reality beyond our personhood as our greater identity. I have had the experience of becoming "massive" during meditations, and I believe Jane has described that same phenomenon. That seems like a symbolic way of experiencing that expansiveness. I had a mystical experience after walking out of a theatre where I had watched Picnic at Hanging Rock, an Australian movie. Most people would consider it "dark". Early in the movie, a young woman with a beatific look says something to the effect, "Everything happens at exactly the right time and at exactly the right place." She later goes into a cave, never to be seen again. It seemed that she had an expansive awareness of the "rightness" of the world and an acceptance of things that would horrify most others. I walked out of the theatre on the Balboa peninsula, and watched the seagulls flying overhead, the breeze, and the ocean waves, and I felt an unusually expansive intimate connection to that interplay of nature with itself, with me. I felt a sense of identity with those elements of nature, as if looking into a mirror.   
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Quote from: leidl
Spinoza was one of my first loves in philosophy.  He talked about God constantly in his writing, yet was reviled for being an atheist.  My relations with my family: same.  :-)  Well...they love me, but revile what they perceive as my atheism.

It's all about how we define God.  What I love about Seth's All-That-Is approach is that it is self-defining, and all inclusive.  Reading my earlier post, I see that I mentioned I'd like to feel the reality of All-That-Is more.  That was a nonsensical statement.  All-That-Is, by definition, includes me, yet  I am speaking of it as if it is out there!  As long as I believe it is out there, I will create that experience.  ATI will feel remote to me.
leidl, it is sad that your family regard you as an atheist when you are clearly not. An atheist is someone like the silly Richard Dawkins.

Your experience of nature was what is called a mystical experience. The following is an extract from the Peter Skafish thesis on Jane Roberts:

"Since neither religion nor science could provide adequate means for illumining her
ecstasies and their consequences, she could only conceptualize them by wresting away from
religion and its injunction to passivity its affirmation of experiences of the soul, burglaring
from science both the intellect and the chronic discomfort with the purportedly true that it
induces in its practitioners, and concatenating them together into a unique method for
answering the questions before her. “In a way, I was just as bad,” she says, as all those who
had written her to confess that they had hidden their psychic, visionary, and mystical
experiences from spouses and family out of shame and fear,
for “I questioned myself and
my experience” instead of forgetting the old, mechanical physics science ascribes to the real,
and accepting the data contradicting it that had come to her apart from her five senses."

https://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/etd/ucb/text/Skafish_berkeley_0028E_11602.pdf
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Quote from: Sena
"Life implies death, and death implies life — that is, in the terms of your world. In those terms life is a spoken element, while death is the unspoken but still-present element “beneath,” upon which life rides. Both are equally present." (from "The Nature of the Psyche: Its Human Expression (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts, Chapter 7, Session 779)

This quote is curiously comforting, Sena, thank you.  To think of life and death as both equally present, rather life being now and death being what happens when life ends, makes death less remote and scary.  Death is a process we are deeply immersed in, right in this moment.  Something like 300 million cells die in us each minute.  I've read we lose our entire body weight in dead cells in a year.   Sort of a slow motion death and birth going on all the time.  We don't even have to leave linear time to feel the reality of life and death existing simultaneously!

Spinoza was one of my first loves in philosophy.  He talked about God constantly in his writing, yet was reviled for being an atheist.  My relations with my family: same.  :-)  Well...they love me, but revile what they perceive as my atheism. 

It's all about how we define God.  What I love about Seth's All-That-Is approach is that it is self-defining, and all inclusive.  Reading my earlier post, I see that I mentioned I'd like to feel the reality of All-That-Is more.  That was a nonsensical statement.  All-That-Is, by definition, includes me, yet  I am speaking of it as if it is out there!  As long as I believe it is out there, I will create that experience.  ATI will feel remote to me. 

Quote from: jbseth
My mother had a NDE, when I was very little. When I got older, she would sometimes talk to me about it.  She told me that wherever she was in this experience, she said that she felt completely and totally surrounded by this incredible love. She didn’t want to leave it, she said that it was wonderful.

Thank you for sharing this, jbseth, I can't imagine what it would feel like to grow up with a story like this in the family.  So many people who experience NDE's say something similar to what your mother did, about not wanting to leave the feeling of love.  They too seem to believe that this source of love is something outside them, something they can be separated from.  Has anyone has ever read of an NDE experience where someone realizes they are not separate from this love, and are happy to go back to their bodies with a new realization of their oneness with ATI and its shared nature of love?  If so I hope you will post.

Quote from: usmaak
It's nice to find a group of people that like to talk about this stuff.  I'm learning a lot.


Me too.  I've noticed I learn more when I participate in a thread than when I just read. Trying to articulate my point of view can help me see it with new eyes, help me see my own contradictions.  And if I don't catch them...some one else will, for sure. 
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Quote from: Deb
Wow, I have to say I love the way this topic has headed. Beautiful.
I lost touch my last Seth friend a couple of years ago in one of those "not everyone is meant to be in your life forever" types of events. It's nice to find a group of people that like to talk about this stuff.  I'm learning a lot. :)
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Comic Relief & Entertainment / Re: Laughter is the best medicine!
« Last post by Deb on April 08, 2021, 05:22:43 PM »
Well it's been a while since anyone has posted here, but today I came across some funny stuff on FB. The third one is about a proposed DIY colonoscopy, which is not meant to be funny but I just can't imagine....
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Wow, I have to say I love the way this topic has headed. Beautiful.
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